American Eagle - helicopter collision

[jis]

Ah... I kind of thought all airports had designated flight paths? Again... I'm a train geek who didn't fly at all until a few years ago so I don't really know.

Why does that make landing in DC dangerous?

I don’t understand why step aside to 33 at DCA would be any more dangerous than say step aside used at EWR to the shorter cross runway? The approach to the longer runway 1 at DCA does not appear to be all that complex. In any case nothing remotely approaching the famous checkerboard approach at the old HKG.

 

[Cal]

My guess is it’s dangerous because the planes have to bank at a low altitude just before they reach the runway approach.

I don't think this is the reason, as this happens at many airports and just means the pilots have a little bit more work to do. I thought it was because there are a lot of restricted areas, all the traffic now has to fit within the small designated areas, creating a larger density of aircraft movements, and therefore more potential for a collision.

 

[PaTrainFan]

This. DCA is extraordinarily popular with Congress, which is increasingly a Tuesday-Thursday institution. They can get from the Capitol dome (or more prosaically, one of the House or Senate office buildings) to DCA in 11 minutes by car, 35 minutes if they deign to take Metro, fat chance. Over the decades I've spent in Washington, too, jets have become quieter, not quiet but quieter, and more direct flights to further destinations and at later hours are allowed out of DCA. Partly at Congress's behest.

A few years ago there was a strong-armed effort by some in Congress to force additional slots at National Airport for the sole convenience of western representatives. This failed in the end due to the objections of the FAA and airport officials who said the airport was already at capacity.

 

[Stevenz]

I think it is overstatement to call approaches to National “dangerous.” It’s not like it has an unusually high rate of incidents, or requires specially trained crews. If you want dicey airports visit Tenzing-Hillary, Funchal, Paro, or London City. (Or for an extra bit of adventure for those who enjoy this forum, take a look at Gisborne New Zealand.)

 

[Just-Thinking-51]

So in Gisborne, New Zealand do the airplanes have the right of way or the railroad that cross the runway have the right of way?

I think it is overstatement to call approaches to National “dangerous.” It’s not like it has an unusually high rate of incidents, or requires specially trained crews. If you want dicey airports visit Tenzing-Hillary, Funchal, Paro, or London City. (Or for an extra bit of adventure for those who enjoy this forum, take a look at Gisborne New Zealand.)

My take on this tragedy is there too many aircraft try to fit into a small space. This seems to be a common issue in the US.

UPS aircraft landing in Louisville have to crossing runway that is used by smaller aircraft. The UPS aircraft are to stop short of the runway, one of these days that will cause a problem. Boston the runway point towards a common location, that has yet to cause a crash, but definitely caused some stress in the past. Hartford Springfield had a runway that came over a mountain a few years back. A aircraft hit the trees on the way in. Only made it to the airport because ground maintenance had chopped trees down between the fence and the runway. All signs of too many aircraft try to use the same space at the same time.

 

[Bob Dylan]

I think it is overstatement to call approaches to National “dangerous.” It’s not like it has an unusually high rate of incidents, or requires specially trained crews. If you want dicey airports visit Tenzing-Hillary, Funchal, Paro, or London City. (Or for an extra bit of adventure for those who enjoy this forum, take a look at Gisborne New Zealand.)

San Diego and San Antonio also scare me, lots of the same problems that DCA has!

 

[George Harris]

While on the subject of dangerous appearing airports, the old Hong Kong airport should be high on the list. You were seemingly in a canyon formed by rows of apartment buildings on both sides of the approaches. This next experience was over 50 years ago. Anchorage< Alaska. It was a fueling stop for planes US - Vietnam. It looked like you were aimed straight at a mountainside when lined up for takeoff. Didn't help these were USDOD chartered very worn looking Boeing 707's labeled for Who Are You Airlines.

 

[jis]

While on the subject of dangerous appearing airports, the old Hong Kong airport should be high on the list. You were seemingly in a canyon formed by rows of apartment buildings on both sides of the approaches. This next experience was over 50 years ago. Anchorage< Alaska. It was a fueling stop for planes US - Vietnam. It looked like you were aimed straight at a mountainside when lined up for takeoff. Didn't help these were USDOD chartered very worn looking Boeing 707's labeled for Who Are You Airlines.

That is the Checkerboard Approach that I mentioned a few posts up. One flew in perpendicular to the runway towards a Checkerboard pattern on the mountain side and then made a ninety degree right turn to enter the canyon between tall buildings to land on a runway that ended sticking out into the sea. So if you failed to stop you went into the drink. Happened a few times too.

 

[jiml]

San Diego and San Antonio also scare me, lots of the same problems that DCA has!

I've never flown into SAT, however San Diego can definitely be an adventure for multiple reasons. I prefer getting there by train!

 

[railiner]

This and other procedures must make flying in and out of Aspen a challenge…
https://aspenairport.wpenginepowered.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/ASE-Wrap-Procedure-Final-2.pdf

 

[MARC Rider]

I had a thrilling ride into Albuquerque once, the plane came down through a narrow notch beterrn two mountains, plus a sudden down draft that added a little more excitement.

I also once got a thrill coming into Philadelphia just after they built a new runway that projected out into the river. I thought we were going to ditch into the Delaware until I saw at the last seconds we were on land.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

San Diego and San Antonio also scare me, lots of the same problems that DCA has!

From what I've seen (and read) AUS seems to have more operational safety problems than SAT. Maybe SAT has a problem with ramp staff getting sucked into engines and people randomly shooting up the drop-off/pickup areas with assault rifles but I've only had one operational scare at SAT and it was ages ago.

I've never flown into SAT, however San Diego can definitely be an adventure for multiple reasons. I prefer getting there by train!

I've heard SAN is scary many times but I've never had any problems there and never really noticed anything unusual. Maybe I'm just desensitized to it.

I had a thrilling ride into Albuquerque once, the plane came down through a narrow notch beterrn two mountains, plus a sudden down draft that added a little more excitement.

Most of the time flying into or out of ABQ (and SAF) is relatively uneventful but every once in a while you can end up on a real roller-coaster and with a large percentage of relatively tiny regional jets you're likely to feel every bump and bounce. I don't mind the ride but many perfectly smooth flights end up with no drink or snack service on the off chance something might happen, so even if you're in a premium seat its best to bring your own with you.

 

[Bob Dylan]

From what I've seen (and read) AUS seems to have more operational safety problems than SAT. Maybe SAT has a problem with ramp staff getting sucked into engines and people randomly shooting up the drop-off/pickup areas with assault rifles but I've only had one operational scare at SAT and it was ages ago.


I've heard SAN is scary many times but I've never had any problems there and never really noticed anything unusual. Maybe I'm just desensitized to it.


Most of the time flying into or out of ABQ (and SAF) is relatively uneventful but every once in a while you can end up on a real roller-coaster and with a large percentage of relatively tiny regional jets you're likely to feel every bump and bounce. I don't mind the ride but many perfectly smooth flights end up with no drink or snack service on the off chance something might happen, so even if you're in a premium seat its best to bring your own with you.

My biggest concern @ SAT is the Miltary and Civilan Traffic Mix, not so much the Airlines!

And you are correct, Austin ( ABI) is dangerous due to a shortage of Controllers and Congestion because the Airport is too small for the Volume of Air Traffic there!( Commercial,Military and Private)

Lots of near misses @ ABI, most don't make the News!