Amtrak’s Black Hawk

[Woodcut60]

There is a Wikipedia article about Amtrak’s Black Hawk service between Chicago and Dubuque, Iowa. It is not up to date, and my question is what has happened since then? According to the article the Governor of Illinois has stopped the reintroduction of this service. ”Service from Chicago to Rockford was expected to begin in 2015, but the start of the service was put on hold by Illinois Governor Bruce Rauner. Service to Dubuque was to open at a later date.”

Anyone who has more updated information on the Black Hawk?

 

[MikefromCrete]

There is no more information. Work on starting the train has stopped. The governor and the legislature are at odds over just about everything. It took a year to just get a temporary budget to run the state. I wouldn't count on this service starting until we get a new governor.

 

[Metra Electric Rider]

Didn't I just see an update somewhere in conjunction with Quad Cities service actually being a go?

 

[Anthony V]

There is no more information. Work on starting the train has stopped. The governor and the legislature are at odds over just about everything. It took a year to just get a temporary budget to run the state. I wouldn't count on this service starting until we get a new governor.

Contrary to popular belief, the proposal has not been entirely canceled, despite rumors from March 2015 saying so. The real thing that has stalled progress on restarting this route is the lack of funding to build the line. Despite the many sources over the years saying that the proposal has found funding, especially those from 2010 and 2014, no funding has truly ever been found for this proposal since the 2007 feasibility study. So the reality is that the route's planning has been stalled since 2007.

 

[MisterUptempo]

Didn't I just see an update somewhere in conjunction with Quad Cities service actually being a go?

Yes. On June 21, 2016, IDOT announced that the state was indeed going ahead with the Quad Cities service, thus avoiding the embarrassment of giving $177 million back to the feds.

 

[Anthony V]

That's the difference between the Quad Cities route and the Rockford route. The QC route has truly had funding since 2010. The Rockford route also applied for federal funding but didn't get any. Because of this setback, the progress on restoring the Black Hawk route has been stalled since. Canadian National Railroad has also been a major obstacle in which negotiations with them for track access went nowhere for over 2 years, which led to the route being switched to the UP Belvidere Subdivision in April 2014. However, the funding that was announced along with the route change ($223 million) was never truly there, just like the $60 million announced in 2010. As a result, the proposal is still in the same situation it's been in since missing out on the stimulus funds back in 2010.

Btw, the $223 million dollar cost of the Rockford Amtrak project is down to $189 million because the $34 million Fox River bridge replacement project in Elgin that was to be covered by the Amtrak project's funds got federal funding and had appropriate funding matches from CP and Metra. This couldn't hurt to make the Black Hawk project look more appealing to the state now that federal funds have taken a $34 million bite out of the original cost.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-metra-fox-river-bridge-milwaukee-west-20160323-story.html

 

[bmjhagen9426]

There is a Wikipedia article about Amtrak’s Black Hawk service between Chicago and Dubuque, Iowa. It is not up to date, and my question is what has happened since then? According to the article the Governor of Illinois has stopped the reintroduction of this service. ”Service from Chicago to Rockford was expected to begin in 2015, but the start of the service was put on hold by Illinois Governor Bruce Rauner. Service to Dubuque was to open at a later date.”

Anyone who has more updated information on the Black Hawk?

I am not sure what happened, as I am from nowhere near there. But according to Wikipedia article that you mention, a train by the same name, operated during the early days of Amtrak. Here is a quote about the original iteration of the Black Hawk:

Amtrak previously operated the Black Hawk from 1974 to 1981 Illinois Central route, now the Canadian National's Chicago Central/Iowa Zone.

As for the planned next iteration, I have no idea. As an IL outsider, I don't see any apparant progress. Currently, it looks like that a planned Black Hawk service is a train service to nowhere, and only God knows when the new Black Hawk service will commence.

 

[MisterUptempo]

With any luck, a new President and Congress might pass a new round of stimulus (not holding my breath), and the Black Hawk could finally get funded. Rockford is the third largest city in Illinois (second largest if you include Aurora as part of Chicago Metro) with a metro population of 345,000, less than 90 miles from Chicago, and has no rail service at all.

Bloomington-Normal, which is about 130 miles from Chicago, with a metro population of only 170,000, saw ridership of nearly 255,000 in 2015. Granted, that's with 4 Lincoln Service round trips and the Texas Eagle, but even two or three round trips daily to Rockford should produce ridership that far outstrips B/N's numbers.

Extending Metra service has been discussed forever, but considering Metra has a big enough problem getting funding to maintain the system it already has, expansion of any type looks unlikely at the present time. State-sponsored corridor service looks like it's the only way to serve Rockford for the foreseeable future.

As for extending the Black Hawk to Dubuque, that may take much longer to happen, if ever. Freeport has a population of only 25,000 and Galena and Lena are tiny towns; no offense to Iowa, but the extension of the Black Hawk west of Rockford looks more like a service to provide Iowans with a train to Chicago on Illinois' dime. Thanks, but no thanks. I'd rather save whatever money would have been spent on a western expansion of the Black Hawk to Dubuque, and use it towards one day re-establishing service to Peoria, eventually expanding that into Quad Cities-Champaign service.

edit - grammar

 

[railiner]

[quote name="MisterUptempo" post="674771" timestamp="1470275570

As for extending the Black Hawk to Dubuque, that may take much longer to happen, if ever. Freeport has a population of only 25,000 and Galena and Lena are tiny towns; no offense to Iowa, but the extension of the Black Hawk west of Rockford looks more like a service to provide Iowans with a train to Chicago on Illinois' dime. Thanks, but no thanks. I'd rather save whatever money would have been spent on a western expansion of the Black Hawk to Dubuque, and use it towards one day re-establishing service to Peoria, eventually expanding that into Quad Cities-Champaign service.

edit - grammar

True....would be more beneficial to Iowa passengers, but which state would be receiving the money those passengers would be spending in Chicago?

 

[MisterUptempo]

True....would be more beneficial to Iowa passengers, but which state would be receiving the money those passengers would be spending in Chicago?

Perhaps providing Iowans subsidized rides into Chicago could be explored some other time. That day might come sooner than later, providing Iowa decides not to punt again, if given another shot at federal dollars to extend the future Quad Cities service into Iowa City and Des Moines. If Iowans don't see the value of spending some of their tax dollars to provide themselves rail service, I certainly don't see the value of Iowans spending my tax dollars to get it.

At the moment, not only does Rockford have no rail service, neither does Peoria, a town with more than twice the in-city population and three and a half times the metro population of Dubuque. State allegiance aside, the numbers alone suggest Rockford and Peoria be served first, with Dubuque a distant second. Eventually extending Peoria service into a Quad Cities-Champaign route would tie the state-sponsored routes(save the Black Hawk and Hiawatha) and several long-distance routes together, providing far more options for rail travelers.

In the end, discussions about extending the Black Hawk into Dubuque may be academic. If, after two years of haggling, CN and IDOT could not come to terms on a track usage agreement, perhaps it's just CN's not very subtle way of telling IDOT that nothing short of highway robbery could convince them to allow passenger traffic on their rails. With CN owning the only rails connecting Rockford and Dubuque, I'd imagine that scenario is probably pretty accurate.

It is conceivable, once Walker's gone, that Wisconsin might get its head out of its own backside and get serious about passenger service. If that day ever dawns, instead of looking west to extend the Black Hawk, perhaps it turns north instead, continuing onto Beloit, Janesville, and Madison, and is renamed the Badger or the Varsity. One can dream.

edit - to correct population info

 

[jfandre]

I live in Iowa City, and I've never been interested in the Quad City / Iowa City project because the plan never included checked baggage (much less a baggage car). At first, I thought there would be some sort of cabbage car, but no dice. Thanks, but when I have to go east I'll still board the CZ in Mt. Pleasant.

 

[CCC1007]

I live in Iowa City, and I've never been interested in the Quad City / Iowa City project because the plan never included checked baggage (much less a baggage car). At first, I thought there would be some sort of cabbage car, but no dice. Thanks, but when I have to go east I'll still board the CZ in Mt. Pleasant.

Don't the cab cars have the designation of "cab coach/baggage?"

 

[Anthony V]

[quote name="MisterUptempo" post="674771" timestamp="1470275570

As for extending the Black Hawk to Dubuque, that may take much longer to happen, if ever. Freeport has a population of only 25,000 and Galena and Lena are tiny towns; no offense to Iowa, but the extension of the Black Hawk west of Rockford looks more like a service to provide Iowans with a train to Chicago on Illinois' dime. Thanks, but no thanks. I'd rather save whatever money would have been spent on a western expansion of the Black Hawk to Dubuque, and use it towards one day re-establishing service to Peoria, eventually expanding that into Quad Cities-Champaign service.

edit - grammar
True....would be more beneficial to Iowa passengers, but which state would be receiving the money those passengers would be spending in Chicago?

The problem with extending service to Dubuque is that Canadian National has been a major obstacle to doing so because they had been fighting the state tooth and nail on track upgrade budget (and therefore track access) negotiations for over 2 years, following which the state decided to switch to the Metra MD-W to Elgin and then the UP Belvidere Sub to Rockford and end the route there until CN's attitude towards IDOT changes. However, the UP Belvidere Sub doesn't go beyond Rockford (neither does any other line), so the CN is the only rail route running from Rockford to Dubuque, and if they don't change their attitude, the train won't be able to go onto Dubuque.

 

[neroden]

There are two complete alternative routes from Chicago to Dubuque, of course. In the highly unlikely situation where Iowa starts getting serious about passenger rail, after they build the entire cross-Iowa route and the Cedar Rapids branch, they could always contract with BNSF through Savanna, IL along the east side of the river or with CP through Davenport along the west side of river.

I don't see Dubuque service happening any time soon. It depends on Iowa caring, and if Iowa cared, it would be doing a lot of other things first (Moline-Davenport-Iowa City-Des Moines-Council Bluffs-Omaha, for example).

 

[MikefromCrete]

I don't see a Dubuque train happening soon. CN has been total non-cooperative in the matter and there is no other way from Rockford to Dubuque. A Chicago-Rockford service would certainly be worthwhile, with multiple trips per day. It all depends on the feud ending between Gov. Rauner and the Democratic-controlled legislature. That won't happen until Rauner decides to not seek another term (he's a rich guy, he doesn't need the hassle of the job), gives up on his anti-union "turnaround agenda" (unlikely), is defeated in his re-election attempt (depends on who the Democrats run for office), or the Republicans take control of both the Illinois House and Senate (pretty unlikely).

As stated above, if Wisconsin ever becomes friendly to rail outside the Chicago-Milwaukee corridor, the Rockford train could be extended to Janesville and Madison.

 

[PerRock]

I live in Iowa City, and I've never been interested in the Quad City / Iowa City project because the plan never included checked baggage (much less a baggage car). At first, I thought there would be some sort of cabbage car, but no dice. Thanks, but when I have to go east I'll still board the CZ in Mt. Pleasant.

Don't the cab cars have the designation of "cab coach/baggage?"

Only the former F40PH ones do (colloquially known as "cabbages"), and most of those have been withdrawn from service. But also, just because there is a baggage car on the train doesn't mean Amtrak will offer it.

peter

 

[CCC1007]

I live in Iowa City, and I've never been interested in the Quad City / Iowa City project because the plan never included checked baggage (much less a baggage car). At first, I thought there would be some sort of cabbage car, but no dice. Thanks, but when I have to go east I'll still board the CZ in Mt. Pleasant.

Don't the cab cars have the designation of "cab coach/baggage?"

Only the former F40PH ones do (colloquially known as "cabbages"), and most of those have been withdrawn from service. But also, just because there is a baggage car on the train doesn't mean Amtrak will offer it.

peter

I was thinking about the Pacific Surfliner and the other two corridors in California. I thought that the cab cars were the coach baggage cars as well.

 

[battalion51]

In the Surfliner/California cars the cab car is also a coach, and is where checked baggage is stored on the lower level. As noted though, the former F-40s are colloquially known as Cabbage since it's one part cab and one part baggage. Notably, the Cabbage is able to be used with any train that won't touch the New York/Baltimore area tunnels. With the former Metroliner cabs or California cabs you're pretty much restricted to the type of equipment used with it since you generally need a match.

 

[WoodyinNYC]

I live in Iowa City, and I've never been interested in the Quad City / Iowa City project because the plan never included checked baggage (much less a baggage car). ... Thanks, but when I have to go east, I'll still board the CZ in Mt. Pleasant.

CHI-Quad Cities-Des Moines-Omaha-Lincoln-Denver. The beauty of this proposed corridor is that Iowa International, owner of the preferred route across Iowa, has been eager to cooperate, figuring the upgrades to its tracks would benefit its freight business.

Back in that glorious Stimulus day when money for passenger rail fell from the sky, about $200 million or so (we could look it up but it doesn't matter) of the funds was targeted to the first couple of steps -- CHI-Quad Cities and Quad Cities-Iowa City. The long range planning was to get more money every year to keep building, but by keeping the segments smallish, projects would be easier to manage, and the few Billions could be spread to more states.

Apparently the numbers for the second starter portion Quad Cities-Iowa City penciled out as likely to require an annual operating subsidy from Iowa of $9 million a year (or was it only $6 million). Illinois was willing to subsidize its share. But despite the proposed federal gift of $100 million plus to begin the trans-Iowa portion of the new train service, the Iowa legislature refused to budget the needed amount. Illinois got its share of the fed's capital investment and is building toward the Quad Cities. But Iowa's share was transferred to more appreciative states.

Another $4 or $5 Billion for passenger rail was in the 2010 Budget that overlapped the Stimulus funding. In the following years, President Obama proposed another $4 Billion a year for passenger rail. But in an awesome display of train-hating, the ideologues in Congress killed that plan every year.

Without the second step, Quad Cities-Iowa City, and the legislature's refusal to support operations going forward, the large-scope plan has been aborted.

Everybody knew -- plenty of maps and descriptions are online -- that the proposed route was about 6 or 8 frequencies service CHI-Quad Cities-Iowa City-Des Moines, with 4 or 5 of those extending to Council Bluffs-Omaha.

One train would go all the way to Denver, or, if you dared to dream, to the West Coast as the Desert Wind or the Pioneer. Simply doubling the frequency CHI-Iowa-Denver would have helped the returns of the California Zephyr

Of course, trains on longer routes to Omaha and to Denver would no doubt have received baggage cars when those services began.

But no. Aborted by Iowa. The whole damn plan for corridor service thru populous cities in Iowa and Nebraska to Denver and perhaps beyond was aborted by Iowa. That's nothing to be proud of, that's a shame

Want to know how I really feel? Bunch of ethanol-subsidy-swilling "anti-big-government" hypocritical ideologues selfishly and hatefully aborted what would have been a popular and successful new route in the Amtrak system benefiting several states. So I'm angry. I'm so angry that I'd better stop right here.

 

[grover5995]

I don't see a Dubuque train happening soon. CN has been total non-cooperative in the matter and there is no other way from Rockford to Dubuque. A Chicago-Rockford service would certainly be worthwhile, with multiple trips per day. It all depends on the feud ending between Gov. Rauner and the Democratic-controlled legislature. That won't happen until Rauner decides to not seek another term (he's a rich guy, he doesn't need the hassle of the job), gives up on his anti-union "turnaround agenda" (unlikely), is defeated in his re-election attempt (depends on who the Democrats run for office), or the Republicans take control of both the Illinois House and Senate (pretty unlikely).

As stated above, if Wisconsin ever becomes friendly to rail outside the Chicago-Milwaukee corridor, the Rockford train could be extended to Janesville and Madison.

Best way to improve passenger rail service in WI is to upgrade Hiawatha Corridor and extend service to Madison and/or Green Bay. This would probably require a change in the governors mansion.

 

[Lonestar648]

Current governors for IL and WI seem to picture passenger rail as an antiquated form of transportation that needs to be eliminated. With current budget battles of give and take between the Governors and Legislatures, maybe we can see some progress, but in reality if we can keep status quo with no service reductions under their leadership, that may be success.

 

[Anthony V]

*** Moderator Note - prior posts were made in mid 2016 ***

Looks like there are renewed efforts to build support for getting this route up and running again.

http://www.wifr.com/content/news/Bring-back-the-Blackhawk-petition--488687211.html

Btw, I signed this petition, and I would like as many people as possible to sign it. It needs 6500 signatures to get put on the ballot this November.

https://petitions.moveon.org/sign/bring-back-the-blackhawk

 

[bretton88]

Current governors for IL and WI seem to picture passenger rail as an antiquated form of transportation that needs to be eliminated. With current budget battles of give and take between the Governors and Legislatures, maybe we can see some progress, but in reality if we can keep status quo with no service reductions under their leadership, that may be success.

Rauner really hasn't been anti rail, he just has been a proponent of across the board budget cuts. The Quad Cities train got the green light (albeit delayed), but the Black Hawk got cut. It doesn't help that CN decided to be completely uncooperative with IDOT on the Black Hawk route, forcing it to be cut back to Rockford. CN has basically said a snowball has a better chance in hell than getting them to agree to host it.

 

[west point]

Current governors for IL and WI seem to picture passenger rail as an antiquated form of transportation that needs to be eliminated. With current budget battles of give and take between the Governors and Legislatures, maybe we can see some progress, but in reality if we can keep status quo with no service reductions under their leadership, that may be success.

Rauner really hasn't been anti rail, he just has been a proponent of across the board budget cuts. The Quad Cities train got the green light (albeit delayed), but the Black Hawk got cut. It doesn't help that CN decided to be completely uncooperative with IDOT on the Black Hawk route, forcing it to be cut back to Rockford. CN has basically said a snowball has a better chance in hell than getting them to agree to host it.

Now that trains has posted a peek at Amtrak-host RR contract CN might play ball ?

 

[Metra Electric Rider]

Looks like there are renewed efforts to build support for getting this route up and running again.

http://www.wifr.com/content/news/Bring-back-the-Blackhawk-petition--488687211.html

Btw, I signed this petition, and I would like as many people as possible to sign it. It needs 6500 signatures to get put on the ballot this November.

https://petitions.moveon.org/sign/bring-back-the-blackhawk

Just to be a debbie downer here, but ballot initiatives are "advisory" in Illinois and do not carry much weight. The impetus should be on contacting state reps and senators to push for the service.