Amtrak 171 to Charlottsville on Wrong Track

[Mystic River Dragon]

I was pleasantly surprised by a lot of the reader comments at the end of the news article. Essentially--two hours is nothing, flying is worse, try blaming CSX, stop complaining....

Seems like general readers who actually have a clue about trains. (Unless, of course, it was a bunch of AU people posting under assumed names! )

 

[Palmetto]

There's a solution for this mis-routing problem, and it's already in place in the Bronx on Metro North at Mott Haven Jct. and Woodlawn:

Route indicators mounted on a signal bridge. Straight-up arrow lit for a straight track move; arrow pointing to the side for a diverging move. Not that complicated, really. And why do you think they were put there? I'll give you one guess.

 

[fairviewroad]

At least in the Amtrak case, they didn't pull the train right into the middle of an active Air Force Base. That's essentially what Delta Airlines did last night on a flight from Minneapolis to Rapid City.

http://www.bizjournals.com/twincities/news/2016/07/08/delta-2845-wrong-airport-msp-rap-rca-ntsb.html

 

[jis]

At least in the Amtrak case, they didn't pull the train right into the middle of an active Air Force Base. That's essentially what Delta Airlines did last night on a flight from Minneapolis to Rapid City.

http://www.bizjournals.com/twincities/news/2016/07/08/delta-2845-wrong-airport-msp-rap-rca-ntsb.html

If Amtrak were able to pull into an Air Force Base, that would be an amazing achievement requiring a special prize for someone.

At least the runway at the wrong airport was long enough for the aircraft involved.

There was a period back in the 70s when Japan Airlines developed a propensity to try to land their DC-8s at Juhu Airport runway 08 in Bombay instead of Santa Cruz International runway 09. Juhu was a GA airport with a very short runway meant for use by small GA planes.Fortunately the runway was just long enough for a DC-8 to manage to slow down enough by the end of the runway to relatively gently overrun into a ditch resulting in no injuries. Unfortunately the aircraft then had to be cut up and carted away for junk disposal.

 

[MattW]

Well, technically, several Amtrak trains pull onto an Air Force Base every day, the Coast Starlight and Surfliners all cross Vandenburg

 

[fairviewroad]

Well, technically, several Amtrak trains pull onto an Air Force Base every day, the Coast Starlight and Surfliners all cross Vandenburg

Yeah, I thought of that after I made my post, which was obviously tongue in cheek. The point being is that what happened with 171, while unusual for Amtrak, wasn't completely unique in terms of transportation. Those passengers on the Delta flight were delayed a good bit longer, from the sounds of it. And in this era of heightened security concerns, I'm glad the Air Force didn't overreact.

 

[Thirdrail7]

There's a solution for this mis-routing problem, and it's already in place in the Bronx on Metro North at Mott Haven Jct. and Woodlawn:

Route indicators mounted on a signal bridge. Straight-up arrow lit for a straight track move; arrow pointing to the side for a diverging move. Not that complicated, really. And why do you think they were put there? I'll give you one guess.

Are you paying for it? The railroads are all about free stuff. Otherwise, they'd probably roll the dice and say the occasional misroute isn't worth the time, money and expensive of installing and maintaining the indicators. This is particularly true where an interlocking is capable of giving you a hint since most railroads still have indications that specify a route or speed.

Metro-North's system only tells you a speed without any hint of a route., which is why after many misroutes, they put in indicators.

Anyway, here is a video showing AF interlocking. This train is operating in the opposite direction of 171's intended route, but you can see the size and possible routes. Depending on the signal, you can see it would take time to realize that you're not lined for NS. The video end prior to AF's opposing home signal but you can see it in the distance.

 

[west point]

As this poster understands for southbound trains on some tracks a clear signal indicates train is to proceed on some track/ But !!! a diverging clear depending on which track can mean as many a any one of three tracks with only one to NS. It will only get worse when the 4th track is placed in service. Or could be a diverging approach/

 

[FormerOBS]

The Trains Magazine forum (Kalmbach Publishing Co.) has a worthwhile discussion of this situation. It's called "A CSX Oh My Goodness!"

Tom

 

[Acela150]

AF is where NS splits off from CSX just south of the Alexandria Amtrak station.

Thanks. I figured that was the interlocking name just wasn't sure. I'm not qualified there! :lol:

 

[Acela150]

171 was already over an hour late.

171(7/05) was 53 minutes late departing Alexandria and was 1:44 late at Burke. So it lost 51 minutes due to this mis-routing. The train spent at long time at WAS, 48 minutes, arriving 34 minutes late, departing 52 minutes late so that probably added to the frustration factor.

Status Maps archive data for the Regional:

* Train 171 of 07/05/2016. Formatted Data
* Northeast Regional - Virginia
* +---------------- Station Code
* | +----------- Schedule Arrival Day
* | | +-------- Schedule Arrival Time
* | | | +----- Schedule Departure Day
* | | | | +-- Schedule Departure Time
* | | | | | +------------- Actual Arrival Time
* | | | | | | +------- Actual Departure Time
* | | | | | | | +- Comments
* V V V V V V V V
* BOS * * 1 815A * 815A Departed: On time.
* BBY * * 1 821A * 821A Departed: On time.
* RTE * * 1 831A * 832A Departed: 1 minute late.
* PVD 1 855A 1 855A 855A 859A Arrived: On time. | Departed: 4 minutes late.
* KIN * * 1 915A * 921A Departed: 6 minutes late.
* NLC * * 1 948A * 958A Departed: 10 minutes late.
* NHV 1 1038A 1 1040A 1044A 1048A Arrived: 6 minutes late. | Departed: 8 minutes late.
* BRP * * 1 1102A * 1119A Departed: 17 minutes late.
* STM * * 1 1129A * 1206P Departed: 37 minutes late.
* NYP 1 1220P 1 1235P 1250P 117P Arrived: 30 minutes late. | Departed: 42 minutes late.
* NWK 1 1252P 1 1252P 134P 138P Arrived: 42 minutes late. | Departed: 46 minutes late.
* EWR * * 1 1257P * 144P Departed: 47 minutes late.
* MET * * 1 110P * 159P Departed: 49 minutes late.
* TRE 1 130P 1 132P 220P 223P Arrived: 50 minutes late. | Departed: 51 minutes late.
* PHL 1 200P 1 214P 249P 254P Arrived: 49 minutes late. | Departed: 40 minutes late.
* WIL 1 234P 1 234P 315P 321P Arrived: 41 minutes late. | Departed: 47 minutes late.
* ABE * * 1 301P * 349P Departed: 48 minutes late.
* BAL 1 324P 1 327P 408P 414P Arrived: 44 minutes late. | Departed: 47 minutes late.
* BWI * * 1 344P * 428P Departed: 44 minutes late.
* NCR * * 1 358P * 445P Departed: 47 minutes late.
* WAS 1 420P 1 450P 454P 542P Arrived: 34 minutes late. | Departed: 52 minutes late.
* ALX * * 1 511P * 604P Departed: 53 minutes late.
* BCV * * 1 530P * 714P Departed: 1 hour, 44 minutes late.
* MSS * * 1 549P * 735P Departed: 1 hour, 46 minutes late.
* CLP * * 1 624P * 812P Departed: 1 hour, 48 minutes late.
* CVS 1 723P 1 723P 907P 913P Arrived: 1 hour, 44 minutes late. | Departed: 1 hour, 50 minutes late.
* LYH 1 836P * * 1026P * Arrived: 1 hour, 50 minutes late.

I should add that I've been on 171 a few times and this train does have a tendency to lose time as seen here.. Once I was a good 2 hours late.. But that's excused.. Hot bearing alarm kept going off in the Amcan I was in.. All the way from NLC to PHL... That was a longgggg ride.

 

[Thirdrail7]

As this poster understands for southbound trains on some tracks a clear signal indicates train is to proceed on some track/ But !!! a diverging clear depending on which track can mean as many a any one of three tracks with only one to NS. It will only get worse when the 4th track is placed in service. Or could be a diverging approach/

CSX uses speed signals on this section, not route signals.

 

[Acela150]

As this poster understands for southbound trains on some tracks a clear signal indicates train is to proceed on some track/ But !!! a diverging clear depending on which track can mean as many a any one of three tracks with only one to NS. It will only get worse when the 4th track is placed in service. Or could be a diverging approach/

CSX uses speed signals on this section, not route signals.

These signals aren't NORAC based if I see it correctly. But to clarify what TR is saying. Medium Clear Limited Clear etc.. With Slow speed being 15MPH Medium at 30MPH Limited 40 for Freight and 45 for passenger. I've always found it humorous that Restricted Speed is a Speed in which a train can be stopped within Half the Distance of Vision no more that doesn't exceed 20MPH, 15 for interlockings (NORAC).. While slow speed is 15MPH...

 

[norfolkwesternhenry]

I would like more details....passengers are calling it a "miserable" trip. Did the toilets go out? Were they stuck on the tracks somewhere for hours? Did they all miss their connections by a long time?

I mean, I've been on trains that were 10 hours late. I've been on a train where a couple cars derailed and the sleeper pax were moved to coach in the middle of the night because the sleeper was bad-ordered. I've been bustituted for 18 hours on the equivalent of a city bus because of flooding....."Miserable"? They were less than 2 hours late... I consider that a "win" on the TE.....

I mean, it still shouldn't have happened, but....their definition of "miserable" and "horrifying" is different to mine.

I was in Coach for 36 hours a week and a half ago, I might only be thirteen, but the most miserable part was it ending.

 

[norfolkwesternhenry]

At least in the Amtrak case, they didn't pull the train right into the middle of an active Air Force Base. That's essentially what Delta Airlines did last night on a flight from Minneapolis to Rapid City.

http://www.bizjournals.com/twincities/news/2016/07/08/delta-2845-wrong-airport-msp-rap-rca-ntsb.html

My Delta flight leaves from Winnipeg to MSP in an hour and a half, is there any chance I could land on top of CHI Union Station? I would love to catch the cardinal with a private business car with kitchen, dome, and lounge, stocked with sparkling water, every Prairie Home Companion ever recorded on MP3.