AMTRAK and Real IDs

[PVD]

Real Id drivers lic. does not require citizenship, it requires legal presence, that is very different. Remember, it is a one time deal, once you have one you shouldn't need anything for renewal. Some states (not sure how many) let you renew on line if you keep the same picture and have an eye test result on file or submitted electronically by the examiner. NY even had a booth at the Auto Show where you could take the eye test and have it in the system if you were renewing online that year.

 

[tricia]

I believe all or nearly all states are using compliant licenses at this point. So will you cease driving when your current license expires, or are you going to continue driving without documentation? My compliant license took no extra time and required no additional documentation.

Different rules in different states, apparently. In North Carolina, when I renewed my driver license a few weeks ago, I was given the OPTION of renewing as a REAL ID--which would have required paying more money, then waiting in a long line at a DMV office, with various documents in hand, to pass muster and I think be fingerprinted. Since I've already got a federal Global Entry card (which qualifies as REAL ID), I instead opted to renew by mail, and now have a new non-REAL ID-compliant driver license.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

Different rules in different states, apparently. In North Carolina, when I renewed my driver license a few weeks ago, I was given the OPTION of renewing as a REAL ID--which would have required paying more money, then waiting in a long line at a DMV office, with various documents in hand, to pass muster and I think be fingerprinted. Since I've already got a federal Global Entry card (which qualifies as REAL ID), I instead opted to renew by mail, and now have a new non-REAL ID-compliant driver license.

In my state it didn't appear to be an option. After a certain date all renewals were compliant. Regarding the documentation I suppose it depends on how you got your first license. If they already had everything they needed then some entry in a database flipped all the right flags and the new ID was processed. If not, perhaps a new request would be sent to supply document X within duration Y or else forfeit amount Z.

 

[jis]

When I got my Florida Drivers License (DL), it took me standing in line to get to an agent some 15 mins, and then about 10 minutes with the agent, ironically, showing them the exact same documents that I showed to an NJ agent a few years earlier for the NJ DL (which included my Passport for the gold standard of Id, and my Social Security Card - one I got in 1977), to walk out with a RealID DL in exchange for the old non-RealID NJ DL which I got back with one corner chopped off, to add to my collection of random cards. They did verify the Passport info with the Passport office electronically.

Basically to get a RealID DL you have to establish that you are a genuine resident of the state (same as for no-RealID DL), and in addition a bunch of possible things to establish you are you. The latter can be established using the same documentation that is needed say to get a Passport (Birth Cert, Naturalization Cert) or a Passport or Passport Card, and proof of SSN (Social Security Card, Pay Stub etc.).

Oddly enough, to get my RealID, of course my Passport was enough, but to register Homestead in Brevard County a Passport was not acceptable. Only a Naturalization Certificate or Birth Certificate was acceptable! Bureaucracies!

I have no idea if it is even possible to get a non-RealID DL or non RealID State ID in Florida anymore.

 

[PVD]

Some states have chosen to continue issuing non real id dl. NY law was changed to allow both types, in addition to EDL. It is not without controversy in some circles.

 

[Mystic River Dragon]

NJ is making us do it but of course does not have an efficient system set up yet for people to do it. So what else is new?

 

[dlagrua]

When I renewed my drivers license in NJ to the one with the photo I.D. I had to present my birth certificate, and another gov't issued ID . What more do they need for the "real ID". Are they assuming that I now have fake ID?

 

[jis]

When I renewed my drivers license in NJ to the one with the photo I.D. I had to present my birth certificate, and another gov't issued ID . What more do they need for the "real ID". Are they assuming that I now have fake ID?

Very often they already have the necessary information. It is their back end that was not set up to work the way the Feds want it to, and they were dragging their feet on getting things fixed. It is hard to tell if they are able to transfer info from their old system to the new one. The only way to know what they will require is to see what they say they will require, since it is very specific to their setup and transition policies.

Real ID is just a branding that the feds have chosen. Id' s are branded as such when they meet certain threshold requirements for verification of identity before one is issued. Not having a Real ID simply means that the Id instrument that you have has not passed through the specific identity authenticity tests required for Real ID.

Here is a very nice web page about Real ID

https://upgradedpoints.com/real-id-act

 

[Qapla]

When I renewed my DL I had to present my birth certificate and "official" mail with my name and address (utility bill) and was issued the Real ID.

My wife had to jump through many more hoops since her name had changed since her birth certificate was issued (her last name was changed to my last name) - and in her case, since she adopted her middle name as her first name and her Maiden "Initial" as her middle name (which, at the time we were married 39 years ago we were informed that a marriage license grants a "legal" name change), she was required to use her "birth first name" which required her to have to secure a new SS card to match her DL.

My SIL had a similar experience and many who have lost a mate or remarried have been required to show death certificates and/or divorce decrees.

These things are required in Fl if you want to renew your license - you cannot get a "non-Real ID" license instead ... you either get the Real ID or surrender your privilege to drive.

 

[adamj023]

The whole RealID setup is a joke. NY State wants multiple forms of documentation for RealID which are ridiculous. Can’t comment on other states but the process for it here is horrible. In NY state RealID is not required. As I said, my passport has RealID but that alone isn’t good enough for them along with my existing license. They should be able to already get the info from the federal database. Since NY State has horrible procedures, my drivers license will never have RealID. The federal government makes RealID easier to get such as passport. passport card or even TSA Pre, Global Entry and other methods. There is no need for someone to have multiple RealID compliant documents.

 

[jis]

In Florida also Real ID is not required. But if you wish to drive using a Florida license you are obliged to get it in the Real ID form since I don't think Florida issues non-real Id Drivers Licenses anymore. At least I have not figured out how one could even ask for one. But as I said earlier, if you have the paperwork it is very quick, and you get one the same day, as you chat with the agent who takes your photo and makes up the document. But of course Florida being Florida, this could vary widely from County to County and even from DMV office to DMV office. In the sticks out here in southern Space Coast we have an uncrowded office with lots of staff so thing move quickly. I bet things are different in Miami-Dade or Broward or even Orange Counties.

 

[PVD]

This is what DHS says: Visit your state’s driver’s licensing agency website to find out exactly what documentation is required to obtain a REAL ID. At a minimum, you must provide documentation showing: 1) Full Legal Name; 2) Date of Birth; 3) Social Security Number; 4) Two Proofs of Address of Principal Residence; and 5) Lawful Status.
Your passport and existing DL together do not meet that standard....

 

[leemell]

Good question. Also, if you have a valid passport, will you still need a REAL ID for any of these?

As long as you have our passport with you, no.

 

[Barb Stout]

But would the SS office accept a current passport instead?

Don't know, but many people don't have passports.

 

[jis]

A passport is a Real ID compliant document

Interestingly, when I applied for Medicare Part A upon turning 65, the Melbourne SS office said they needed to update their records about my citizenship status, which I can understand, since the last time I interacted with them was before I became a citizen. They specifically said that they need to see my Naturalization Certificate. Fine, but I decided to take along my Passport anyway, just in case, based on a few past experiences.

So they looked at my Naturalization Certificate, made a copy for their files and then tried to verify it with the ICE system. Well the ICE system was unreachable. So they asked me if by chance I have my Passport handy, which of course I did. They were able to verify the Passport information using the Passport IT system I guess, and proceeded to process my application based on that.

Moral of the story, take a few documents, not just one, when they ask to verify something.

BTW, if everyone in the country tried to get a Passport the system would probably crash and burn. It already takes them more than a week to process a standard Passport application.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

It already takes them more than a week to process a standard Passport application.

My first by-mail passport took months, even after paying the "express" surcharge. I asked for a refund since the delay exceeded the schedule guidance by an order of magnitude. That took another six months. When I've discussed passports with travelers from other industrialized democracies they invariably tell me it's a simple same day turnaround at a fraction of the cost.

 

[jis]

My first by-mail passport took months, even after paying the "express" surcharge. I asked for a refund since the delay exceeded the schedule guidance by an order of magnitude. That took another six months. When I've discussed passports with travelers from other industrialized democracies they invariably tell me it's a simple same day turnaround at a fraction of the cost.

Yup. It is unpredictable, highly variable and depends on ones luck, a lot apparently depends on where the application is processed.

Reminds me of the times back in the '70s when renewing ones I-94 seemed to be a similar crap shoot. The scuttlebutt was that if yours landed up at St. Albans you could kiss it good bye and apply for a substitute and hope that application did not land up in St. Albans.

The last time I got my Passport renewed last year they said it would take two weeks and it took exactly two weeks to the day. But I have heard multiple horror stories of multi month misadventures too.

 

[Bob Dylan]

Texas Licenses now will have a Gold Star on the corner indicating that they are now a "Real ID",as opposed to the old ones that didnt, hence they were "Fake ID"???

 

[jis]

Texas Licenses now will have a Gold Star on the corner indicating that they are now a "Real ID",as opposed to the old ones that didnt, hence they were "Fake ID"???

See https://discuss.amtraktrains.com/threads/amtrak-and-real-ids.76513/page-2#post-824828

 

[Devil's Advocate]

Texas Licenses now will have a Gold Star on the corner indicating that they are now a "Real ID",as opposed to the old ones that didnt, hence they were "Fake ID"???

So far as I am aware Read ID primarily refers to auditing of the authentication and verification process from which approval was derived. The cards themselves are largely unaffected by Real ID compliance, other than including machine readable data in a specific format. The majority of states were mostly compliant when the rules creating Real ID were written into law, but a few stragglers were still approving licenses more appropriate for the 1950's. Personally I haven't seen anything all that disconcerting as of yet, but anyone who is concerned can purchase inexpensive Mylar slips and wire mesh wallets that can block most forms of surreptitious eavesdropping.

 

[adamj023]

My first by-mail passport took months, even after paying the "express" surcharge. I asked for a refund since the delay exceeded the schedule guidance by an order of magnitude. That took another six months. When I've discussed passports with travelers from other industrialized democracies they invariably tell me it's a simple same day turnaround at a fraction of the cost.

Sounds like you didn’t follow directions and add appropriate fees and use faster USPS Express mail as I get them back immediately all the time when I renew passport with a very short wait time. Not sure which factor contributed to your slowdown. USPS regular mail can be very slow in itself but if you don’t put expedite on the envelope or mail to wrong address or whatnot it always adds time. Every time I have mailed it which includes full tracking and signature upon receipt, they quickly received it and the facility has always been staffed even if shipment has been during an off time period. And the time to receive is quick and has been faster than posted wait times on the internet which are disclosed. I heard of people even mailing via UPS or FedEx where it goes to another address which adds time to the process.

If you have travel arrangements, you can even go last minute and walk into a facility, Im not sure if it requires appointment or not. Compare that to the DMV where you have to be treated poorly and wait on multiple lines for drivers license renewal or to switch to RealD in NY if you don’t use online renewal.

 

[jis]

It should be pointed out that your DMV experience does not mean everyone has the same DMV experience in every state, county and city either, just like DA's experience with Passport office does not match yours. As I mentioned it took me all of 25 minutes at the DMV office I went to to get my Driver's License which happens to be Real ID since that is the only kind they make here. Much much less hassle than getting a Passport. Didn't have to fiddle around with UPS, USPS or any such at all. Just drove down to the office 15 mins away.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

Sounds like you didn’t follow directions and add appropriate fees and use faster USPS Express mail as I get them back immediately all the time when I renew passport with a very short wait time. Not sure which factor contributed to your slowdown. USPS regular mail can be very slow in itself but if you don’t put expedite on the envelope or mail to wrong address or whatnot it always adds time.

What do you mean by "all the time?" Do you travel so much that even forty visa pages isn't nearly enough? In my case I purchased each and every express benefit that was available at the time of submission. If I had failed to follow directions I doubt I would have received any sort of refund. Passports in Texas have a different path compared to applications handled in New York so it's not that surprising our experiences would be different.

If you have travel arrangements, you can even go last minute and walk into a facility, Im not sure if it requires appointment or not. Compare that to the DMV where you have to be treated poorly and wait on multiple lines for drivers license renewal or to switch to RealD in NY if you don’t use online renewal.

Where I live the nearest passport agency is hours away and setup like a fortress with signs that say you cannot simply walk-in. You must first schedule online and then show up at the date and time the computer gives you. You can decline the offer and make another request but it's incredibly clumsy and difficult to schedule around other business. Whereas the DMV is only minutes away, takes walk-ins without prior arrangements, and provides same-day documentation as part of the standard fee.

 

[jebr]

It should be pointed out that your DMV experience does not mean everyone has the same DMV experience in every state, county and city either, just like DA's experience with Passport office does not match yours. As I mentioned it took me all of 25 minutes at the DMV office I went to to get my Driver's License which happens to be Real ID since that is the only kind they make here. Much much less hassle than getting a Passport. Didn't have to fiddle around with UPS, USPS or any such at all. Just drove down to the office 15 mins away.

Yeah, the DMV here in Minnesota generally isn't bad either. There's been some major teething problems with launches of new computer systems, but most times I'm in and out within 15-20 minutes, and often less. There was one time I went in to renew my tabs and it took longer to stop at the ATM on the way there than it did to get my tabs. Generally the staff there is as friendly as most other standard retail establishments - a few great ones, a few grumpy ones, but generally pleasant to work with. Admittedly I haven't had any bad experiences with the passport office either, but it definitely takes longer to work with them than it does to go to the DMV here.

 

[adamj023]

What do you mean by "all the time?" Do you travel so much that even forty visa pages isn't nearly enough? In my case I purchased each and every express benefit that was available at the time of submission. If I had failed to follow directions I doubt I would have received any sort of refund. Passports in Texas have a different path compared to applications handled in New York so it's not that surprising our experiences would be different.


Where I live the nearest passport agency is hours away and setup like a fortress with signs that say you cannot simply walk-in. You must first schedule online and then show up at the date and time the computer gives you. You can decline the offer and make another request but it's incredibly clumsy and difficult to schedule around other business. Whereas the DMV is only minutes away, takes walk-ins without prior arrangements, and provides same-day documentation as part of the standard fee.

I am in NYC where the DMV experience is poor. As far as all the time with passport. I meant every time I have renewed it over the years. The initial process was tedious where you had to get a specific appointment at the post office although back then I hear appointments were easier to get than now. I do have to wait on line to mail out my passport USPS Express but one can go to any USPS office at an off hour or self pay and mail. All Expedited passports go to Philadelphia. PA for renewal so we all use the same facility for Expedited passports. The address for routine service is in Texas including me as NY goes to Texas as does a few other states. If you mailed an Expedited to Texas, you aren’t getting Expedited service and that is failure to follow directions if that is what happened. Other Standard Passports go to Philadelphia. PA as well. Apparently renewal for passport time is longer now which also has to do with RealID compliance but mine is good for awhile and renewal time should be shorter when I renew. Last renewal time, it was super quick and much shorter than posted wait time.