Amtrak bustitution discussion

[MARC Rider]

There has been a discussion of bustitutions in some recent threads, so I thought it might be a good idea to have a special bustitution thread where we can discuss the topic in more detail.

Bustitutions are a 2-edged sword. On the one hand, using a bus bridge to break up a long-distance route, as was proposed for the Southwest Chief a few years ago, is an abomination, and I'm glad it never happened and hope it never happens. On the other hand, when there are temporary service disruptions, a bus bridge allows one to finish the journey in a timely manner.

Here are my experiences with Amtrak Bustitutions:

Capitol Limited: When they were daylighting some of the tunnels in Pennsylvania, they bustituted if the eastbound train got into Pittsburgh more than 2 hours late. Yep, it happened to me, and it was a shame, because I had a really good sleeping car attendant that trip. But they rousted us out in Pittsburgh at about 7 AM, put us on a coach, and off we went at 70 mph on the Pennsylvania Turnpike (sharp curves and stiff grades) in a pouring rainstorm. No food service, but we stopped at the Gateway service center in Breezewood, where we were able to eat. Despite our late departure from Pittsburgh and the Washington DC area traffic, we got to Washington Union Station at the time scheduled for the original train. It was an OK ride, though the bus was stuffed full, so I had a seatmate.

Silver Star/Silver Meteor: On a trip to Tampa, it turned out CSX was doing trackwork, so the Tampa and Lakeland passengers were bussed from Orlando. On the way home, I wanted to get into Baltimore early, so I booked the Thruway bus connection via Orlando on the Meteor. It was an OK ride, though getting off the freeway to meander around Lakeland was a bit of a pain in the neck.

Pennsylvanian: I had wanted to ride over the Horsehoe curve, but when I got to 30th St., I found out that NS had decided to derail a long freight train and dump cargo all over the tracks. So they bussed us from Harrisburg to Pittsburgh. It was actually handled pretty well. They had 4 buses, all of which went to Pittsburgh and a couple of intermediate stations, so no one bus was getting off the highway to stop at all of the stations. I picked the bus that was stopping at Lewiston and Huntington, and it was the least crowded bus of the bunch, so I had a whole seat pair to myself. We made pretty good time, and got into Pittsburgh before the train was scheduled to get in.

My first Amtrak bustitution was in 1972 when my brother and I took the Silverliner (now Keystone)train to Harrisburg to visit my Dad, who was working there. They still hadn't cleaned up the mess from Tropical Storm Agnes, which had passed through a couple of months earlier, so our train was terminated in Lancaster, and we were bussed the rest of they way.

I got a modest voucher for the Capitol Limited bustitutioon due to not having a sleeper from Pittsburgh. I didn't bother to ask for anything for the Silver Star, as I knew it was a bustitution before I left, and I didn't ask for any compensation for the Pennsylvanian, after all, we did get to Pittsburgh early, and I had a nice bus ride.

 

[Eric in East County]

Bustitutions are a 2-edged sword. On the one hand, using a bus bridge to break up a long-distance route, as was proposed for the Southwest Chief a few years ago, is an abomination, and I'm glad it never happened and hope it never happens. On the other hand, when there are temporary service disruptions, a bus bridge allows one to finish the journey in a timely manner.

The justification for keeping the Southwest Chief running between Albuquerque and Kansas City is that it fulfills a critical long-distance transportation need for the people living in between those two cities.

In a different thread, a Scout leader related the problems encountered while trying to find transportation for a Scout group stranded in Raton after a freight train derailment caused SWC No. 4 to be cancelled with no alternative transportation provided. Earlier, there was the wide-spread news coverage of passengers on SWC No. 3 who were stranded in Albuquerque after another freight train derailment caused SWC No. 3 to be cancelled with no alternative transportation provided. Had a plan been in place for coming up with bus bridges on short notice, the passengers affected by these two service disruptions would have be able to continue on their way and Amtrak would not have received all the bad publicity that it did.

 

[PaTrainFan]

My one experience with bustitution in late June 2015 on the California Zephyr was a doozy. Was taking my son on a college graduation trip to San Francisco. Due to a washout in Iowa we were something like 10 hours late into Denver. This included a very lengthy delay in the middle of nowhere Nebraska due to the crew dying, and Amtrak decided to short turn the train in Denver and bus bridge us to Glenwood Springs where we caught the previous day's Zephyr which was also already a day+ behind due to the same washout and held for us. We essentially were flipped by 12 hours, so it was disappointing in that we missed the Rockies yet saw (less interesting) territory such as the Great Salt Lake. Arrived in Emeryville around 4 a.m. and fortunately still got the Ambus into San Francisco.

Wasn't the WORST experience ever, as we had an adventure to relate; our new SCA on the second leg was an outstanding guy who was loquacious and fun, and performed very well despite himself working on very little sleep. Amtrak provided what I thought at the time was a generous several hundred dollar credit, though I cannot now remember the precise amount.

I ended up going out on my own the next summer for a no-drama re-do, but my poor son missed out.

 

[Old MM]

Bustitutions, (add to dictionary... thank you) are never ideal IMHO but certainly better than being stranded, and if planned as part of a route, certainly better than no service My bustitution experiences over the years are as follows:
1) Planned SWC connection to Vegas, both from Kingman and LA. LA is a loooong ride and I wouldn't do it again, Kingman is in the middle of the night but shorter.
2) Unplanned, back in... give me a minute... 2012? 2013? anyway, between Everett, WA and Seattle. Due to mudslides disrupting the EB. Some opportunity for scenery missed, but on such a long trip, wasn't terribly impactful, could not complain about how it was handled.
3) Bus bridge from Michigan cities to Toledo to connect with either the Capitol or LSL. Taken many times over the years and will be again and again. The bus ride is fine, never had any issues, can lose a little time but has never caused a misconnect and the trains are also not perfectly on time
4) Unplanned bustitution for the Wolverine to Chicago, for the entire route. It was a couple of years ago, over the holidays. Handled very well and got to Chicago even earlier. Amtrak was proactive and fortunate in that the bus operator who took the assignment had both vehicles and personnel available, not always the case apparently. Frankly I'd take a planned bus route to Chicago again if the fares and times worked out.

 

[zephyr17]

My main experience with a last minute bustitution was about a decade ago. I do not consider scheduled Thruway bus or van services to be "bustitutions" since the service is supposed to be a bus, a bus is not being substituted. The Starlight was bustituted between Klamath Falls and Portland due to a tunnel fire. The problem was known the previous day and I was hoping for an Inside Gateway detour, and stayed awake out of Sac to see if we stayed on the former WP at Binney Jct, but no such luck.

It was okay.

The loading onto multiple buses at Klamath Falls was pretty chaotic. The through buses to Portland versus the ones making intermediate stops weren't marked. You had find a bus with room and ask the driver.

We stopped in the parking lot of a truck stop north of Eugene to pick up box lunches. It was done by everyone piling off the buses and crowding around the back of a pickup where they were handing them out. The scene had kind of a refugee camp vibe, but everyone got their lunch.

Coming into Portland, the driver did not know where Union Station was and where to exit I 5. A couple of passengers stood near the driver, giving him directions.

The train waiting for us in Portland was open for boarding as soon as we got there, so we could board and settle back in immediately. Overall, it was fine but kind of goofy in some respects.

Another bustitution had a bit more warning, they bustituted the morning Cascades to Vancouver one of the times I took it from Everett. I don't think a mud slide (the usual reason) was the cause, I think it was something else as they gave me a few days notice. Nothing really to note on that one, it was just a normal bus ride.

Another one was not what I consider a true bustitution. After COVID I was booked on the Cascades to Vancouver. They'd have the train in the reservations system but then did serial cancellations of it because it took a long time (and Senator Maria Cantwell calling Stephen Gartner into her office for a spanking) to actually restart it. In any case, they cancelled the train, which I pretty much expected, but they did not cancel my reservation, rebook me, or email me. The reservation just showed on the app with a problem indicator of some kind. Ultimately I called in and had them modify the reservation to a Cantrail Thruway bus from Seattle (which does not stop in Everett or US stops other than Seattle). Since I wound up having to handle rebooking myself and used a scheduled Thruway service, I kind of don't consider that a bustitution.

 

[blueman271]

The justification for keeping the Southwest Chief running between Albuquerque and Kansas City is that it fulfills a critical long-distance transportation need for the people living in between those two cities.

In a different thread, a Scout leader related the problems encountered while trying to find transportation for a Scout group stranded in Raton after a freight train derailment caused SWC No. 4 to be cancelled with no alternative transportation provided. Earlier, there was the wide-spread news coverage of passengers on SWC No. 3 who were stranded in Albuquerque after another freight train derailment caused SWC No. 3 to be cancelled with no alternative transportation provided. Had a plan been in place for coming up with bus bridges on short notice, the passengers affected by these two service disruptions would have be able to continue on their way and Amtrak would not have received all the bad publicity that it did.

I don’t believe this is the type of bus bridge the previous poster was talking about. I believe the previous poster was talking about a plan that Anderson had to sever the SWC route, making 2 regional trains with a bus connection in the middle. I believe the trains would have run from LA to ABQ and Chicago to KC with a bus connection between KC and ABQ. All the small towns in Kansas and Colorado and New Mexico would have lost their train.

 

[flitcraft]

My bustitution story was on the northbound Coast Starlight the last year in which the Pacific Parlour Car was on the consist. In fact, we had booked early dinner in the Parlour Car, but midway through the afternoon, the rumor started that the northbound trip would terminate in Portland. We asked our SCA about it, but he had no information. But, later on we got an announcement that no dinner would be served but instead we should await instructions in Portland about the rest of the trip.

With the usual Amtrak efficiency in communication, passengers all disembarked in Portland and no one seemed to know what was happening, why we were stopped in Portland, and how, if at all, we were to get to points north. One of the passengers went to the ticketing lines in the station and was told that, at some point, busses would be provided northward. Of course, by that point, no one in charge seemed to have any idea who was going where. After a couple of hours of milling around, a bus appeared and began loading those of us going to Seattle. Another bus was supposed to be on the way to handle those heading for non-Seattle stops. After boarding the bus, we waited--again with no information from anyone in charge--about when we were likely to leave for Seattle. I felt sorry for the poor bus driver, who seemed to have no more information than any of us did.

Finally, after a near insurrection among the passengers, we headed for Seattle, ultimately arriving around 11 pm, hungry, tired, and generally annoyed. I didn't know enough to contact Amtrak for compensation for our missed dinner and the substitution of a bus seat for a bedroom.

We were mostly disappointed by missing the dinner in the Parlour Car, but looked forward to taking the Coast Starlight in the following spring when the Parlour Car would be re-added to the consist. (It was removed from the CS every fall for maintenance, and returned in the spring.) In fact, I made sure to book our spring trip for the week after the PPC was due to be added. Of course, that never happened. It was gone, never to reappear... Sure do miss those lamb shanks!

 

[Stremba]

I’ve only ever has one bustitution and it was very minor, so I can’t really complain. We had booked a Pittsburgh to Norfolk trip with connection at Union Station in DC. Our train got cancelled and we were rebooked onto a DC-Newport News regional instead of a Norfolk one, with the bus connection from Newport News to Norfolk. Only about a 10 mile ride, but there was a road closure and the driver kind of got lost so it took longer than it should have. Still, not a horrible ride, but it was only 30 minutes or so.

 

[jis]

I experienced a last minute bus bridge from Albany to Buffalo on 49 after CSX managed to derail a freight near Amsterdam shutting down its own railroad and the parallel adjacent highway. Amtrak refunded the Sleeper charge in a voucher. We were transported from NY to Albany in Coach on a separate Empire Service consist, i.e. not in a regular Empire Service train, and we finally got into our Sleepers at Buffalo where the incoming 48 had been short turned with their passengers bussed to Albany around the derailment.

All in all it was an OK experience except for the usual chaos at Albany in getting the buses loaded. The food place in Albany station was very busy with people picking up food for the journey to buffalo. They ran a significant number of buses non-stop to buffalo all the way on the Thruway. There were separate buses for drop offs and pickups between Albany and Buffalo.

 

[MARC Rider]

Another time, back in the 1990s, I was coming home from Williamsburg, VA, and for some reason the train was cancelled at the last minute. They bussed us to Washington, where they loaded us on to a Northeast Direct for the rest of the journey. This was before reserved seating on the NEC, and the train was so crowded many of us were forced to sit at tables in the cafe car. Fortunately, I was getting off at Baltimore, only 40 minutes up the line. The bus ride was nonstop on the interstates and was OK. At the time traffic on I-95 in northern Virginia was only partially out of hand, not totally out of hand like it is today, and we weren't delayed by traffic too badly.

 

[Willbridge]

In September 2016 a BNSF freight went on the ground between Pasco and Spokane. I was on Train 28, which was stopped after we had departed Pasco. We backed to Pasco and then rode around the yard as our section was turned. After a further wait, buses arrived with Train 27's passengers and they took us to Spokane. I messaged my dad to tell him that I was on the Western Star so he'd know that I was hours late, but enjoying the scenery. The sad part was that the private car on 28 had to return to Portland. The good part is that Pasco and Spokane are intermodal stations, so the transfers were smooth.







In 2008, the Berlin S-Bahn was still catching up with WWII repairs and was running a bus shuttle. I answered customer questions while Deutsche Bahn staff ducked out for a smoke. The funny thing is that no one asked why an American tourist was explaining what was happening.




On that same trip to Germany, I was bused through Suhl while trackwork was underway. I've written up the experience here.

My longest bustitution was in 2005 from Denver to Sacramento, due to slides. The trip scored a second bustitution from Sacramento to Stockton for trackwork. I've written that one up before, too.



In 1997 I was on Train 4 when it derailed at Model, Colorado. We missed both Mule connections and were sent in crew vans to St. Louis with a rest stop at Columbia. I've written that one up before, as well.

 

[Bob Dylan]

I've had the great pleasure( NOT) of several bustitutions thru the years, the most frequent being on the Texas Eaglete Route.

Each year when UP performs track maintainence between Longview and Ft Worth, passengers are bussed in I-20 between the 2 points with 1 Bus for Ft Worth and beyond passengers, and another for passengers for Mineola and Dallas.

All in all a pretty easy trip but Lunch in the Diner ( CCC) is missed,and the bus stops @ a Truck Stop on I-20 for a Rest Break .

Other Bustitutions have been for engine problems (P-42 breakdown)between Temple and Taylor and Austin, and San Antonio and Austin due to very late arriving 2/422 from LAX.

My only other bustitutions were when the Zephyr was extremely Late into Galesburg where we were bustituted to Idianapolis to catch the Cardinal,( not so nice a ride and a long wait in the Dungeon like Station ) and several times when Slides caused the Surfliners to be cancelled between SAN and LAX.

All in all I've been fortunate in my over 53 years of riding Amtrak to have had so few bustitutions!

 

[BlackDiamond]

The food place in Albany station was very busy with people picking up food for the journey to buffalo.

I take it they did not offer anything for the sleeper passengers who would normally have been served dinner after 49 left Albany.

 

[jazzharris]

I already wrote about my disaster last April when I got stranded in San Antonio. I could only wish for bustitution. "No alternate transportation provided" means you're on your own. So I personally would not complain about bustitution.

 

[JayPea]

My experience with bustitutions haven't been bad at all. The first was in 2011 on the Empire Builder. This was when there was severe flooding in the Midwest and the EB was several hours late into Seattle on a daily basis. I was going on my yearly northwest loop trip (Spokane-Seattle-Portland-Spokane) and the Portland half of the EB had been discontinued a couple of weeks earlier and was bus only for the time being. In fact, the train I took from Spokane to Seattle was the next to last EB at all, for a few months. At any rate, I knew I would be bustituted from Portland but didn't mind. We got to Spokane much earlier than the EB would have, and even got on board entertainment as the bus driver allowed a young man to play a couple of movies on the bus' DVD player. Thus we were treated to "Marmaduke" and "A Night at the Museum".

A second time was also on the EB, this time returning to Spokane from Seattle. This was on the tail end of a cross country trip of some sort or another that I took with my uncle. The EB had been very late, and had been terminated in Spokane. So I was bustituted to Spokane. My uncle didn't want to ride a bus so he stayed in Seattle an extra day and rescheduled his trip back to Chicago. I had to get back to work so couldn't do that. There were two buses, one for passengers at all the stops between Seattle and Spokane (Edmonds, Everett, Leavenworth, Wenatchee, and Ephrata) and another for passengers bound for Spokane and beyond. I was on that one and, as it was a straight shot from Seattle on I-90, got into Spokane far earlier than the train would have.

The third and final time was actually a bustitution of a bustitution. I was with my uncle again, and we had taken the Zephyr from Sacramento and were going to Chicago, then down to Bloomington-Normal on the Lincoln Service, stay overnight at his place, then return to Chicago to take the EB back to Spokane. However, the Lincoln Service had been canceled due to track work and a bustitution was in order. Except we would have gotten into Chicago too late to catch the bustitution as the Zephyr was running late. So we bailed at Galesburg and were able to be rescheduled on the regular Thruway bus that ran between Galesburg and Indianapolis. We got into Bloomington before the regular bustitution did.

 

[jis]

I take it they did not offer anything for the sleeper passengers who would normally have been served dinner after 49 left Albany.

No. They just refunded a prorated portion of the Sleeper charge in a voucher. Basically the portion from New York to Buffalo effectively became just the transport charge, and it was Sleeper from Buffalo onward to Chicago. Which I thought was pretty fair given the situation.

We did see the CSX train strewn across the countryside from across the river on the way.

 

[Trollopian]

In 2008, the Berlin S-Bahn was still catching up with WWII repairs and was running a bus shuttle. I answered customer questions while Deutsche Bahn staff ducked out for a smoke. The funny thing is that no one asked why an American tourist was explaining what was happening.

This is priceless, Willbridge.

(2008! 63 years after WWII and nearly two decades post-reunification of the two Germanies.)

 

[SecondChildhood]

As long as we’re sharing, here’s my story.

June of 2023, we were running seven hours late getting to San Antonio westbound on the triweekly section of the Texas Eagle. After a hearty serving of Amstew for the coach passengers some time after we left Del Rio, we were informed that two motor coaches would be accommodating passengers beyond SAS. For those continuing to Chicago, we’d meet up with the daily Texas Eagle in Longview, which left on time.

The trip to Longview was expected to take six hours, with a half-hour meal stop/smoke break at a truck stop halfway. It was a warm summer day, and before long we were roasting.

The bus stopped after two hours, and we were glad to get in to the truck stop to grab sandwiches and bottles of water. Some commented on the earlier than anticipated stop.

Back on the bus, which had cooled a bit but not much, and we were off. An hour later, we were stopping again. This time, the bus driver announced that the AC was not working, and the law is they have to stop if the interior temp gets above 86. One more half-hour break, one more hour trek in the Texas heat, one more half-hour stop. After that, it was 5pm and it was finally cooling off.

But we were now an hour late, expecting to get to Longview more than an hour after the Eagle’s scheduled departure. With the bus driver having no information for us, we assumed the first bus made it, but we’d probably be stranded.

However, when we arrived, there was the gang from the first bus, still waiting for the train. We joined them and waited another hour and a half before 22 finally put in an appearance, pulling two empty coaches for us.

 

[dlagrua]

This past May on our way back from Winslow/Flagstaff, AZ the SW Chief was delayed about 2 hours for a private car attachment in Alburqueque. Then we were delayed again at Kansas City when they took the private car off the train. Already late into the journey the train was stopped for a freight derailment. That blew our chances of picking up the Cardinal at Chicago. Low and behold the train stops at Galesburg, IL Conductor said everyone off who had a connection East in Chicago . A big Trailways bus pulls up to the station and we all boarded, About 1 hour into the bus trip we get stuck in a huge traffic jam because of a dust storm. Needless to say we get to the Indianapolis station and make the Cardinal Connection with about 20 minutes to spare only to find someone sleeping in our bedroom. After some corrections to the room situation we finally get going around midnight only to find that there was no running water. Apparently the tanks were never refilled at Chicago.

 

[Eric in East County]

I don’t believe this is the type of bus bridge the previous poster was talking about. I believe the previous poster was talking about a plan that Anderson had to sever the SWC route, making 2 regional trains with a bus connection in the middle. I believe the trains would have run from LA to ABQ and Chicago to KC with a bus connection between KC and ABQ. All the small towns in Kansas and Colorado and New Mexico would have lost their train.

We were aware of that proposed plan and are glad that it was never instituted.

We were referring to what appears to be no provisions for coming up with, on short notice, bus bridges for those stations located between Albuquerque and Kansas City. In the case of the Scout group that was recently stranded in Raton, that was particularly egregious since it involved minors. Fortunately, their adult leaders were proactive and had the financial resources to come up with alternative transportation for them. (We doubt that the Amtrak decision makers responsible for leaving those Scouts stranded would care to have their own children stranded in a similar manner.)

IMHO those who put their trust in Amtrak to get them and/or their loved ones to their ticketed destinations, particularly the elderly and those who do not hold up well in stressful situations, should not be subjected to situations where their trains are cancelled in mid-journey with no alternative transportation provided.

 

[Willbridge]

This is priceless, Willbridge.

(2008! 63 years after WWII and nearly two decades post-reunification of the two Germanies.)

Here are some more scenes from the bus bridge (which sounds better than bustitution). The photos above were at Grunau. The photos below were at Adlershof, the other end of the bus ride. The time lost was 20 minutes.

 

[Eternityroad]

My bustitution was in '93 when the old Desert Wind broke down on Barstow, Calif. going East. They bused us to Las Vegas and put us up in a hotel until the next train at 6:30 pm next day. I think they gave us meal vouchers as well, but no gambling coupons! Lol.

 

[Fertynas]

I agree; that bustitution situations can be frustrating. However, it's important to note that passenger experienceshighlight the need for flexibility and quick responses from Amtra k. Perhaps it would be beneficial to consider creating a dedicated support line for passengers in these situations to pprovide better assistance and information about alter/native transport options

 

[Eric in East County]

I agree; that bustitution situations can be frustrating. However, it's important to note that passenger experienceshighlight the need for flexibility and quick responses from Amtra k. Perhaps it would be beneficial to consider creating a dedicated support line for passengers in these situations to pprovide better assistance and information about alter/native transport options

Not everyone who travels has a smart phone or the expertise to use the internet to come up with alternative travel options on short notice. (Do the Amish folk who travel on Amtrak, for example, have cell phones or smart phones?) Even being stranded in a staffed Amtrak station can be stressful. Those without smart phones and who find themselves stranded at an unstaffed Amtrak station have few if any options for obtaining information or assistance. This can be extremely traumatic, particularly to the elderly and those who don’t handle stressful situations well. Coming up with a plan whereby Amtrak would provide or coordinate some sort of rapid response “travelers’ aid” assistance to help find alternative transportation for those who are stranded when their trains are cancelled, is something that should be given serious consideration.

 

[SubwayNut]

The big issue Amtrak is facing is that the private carrer Motorchoach industry is not a healthy industry right now so finding charter operators with coaches at short notice is much harder than it was pre-pandemic. I know the South Shore Line was trying to do a last minute busitution and had to do the dreaded "no alternative transportation provided" solution because they couldn't find a single nearby charter company with buses avalible on short notice. Amtrak is facing the same issues.

My personal experiences are once bussed around a mudslide from Seattle to Everett to pick up the evening Amtrak Cascades which turned into a 3am arrival into Vancouver after a truck bottomed out on a grade-crossing in Vancouver that had to be inspected and a stowaway was found on a freight train at the US-Canadian border that we had to wait for.

Then the biggest was ending up on a medical transportation bus out of Prince George when I road the Rocky Mountaineer and the train broke down! Lots of super upset people talking about how "they don't due coaches." and where's our compensation "We ended up getting a Rocky Mountaineer book and a $200 CAN credit which seemed a little poor for how expensive the trip was, at least the breakdown happened after lunch so no missed meals with a box dinner given out in McBride at their train station and visitors center.