Amtrak Cascades Service discussion

[west point]

As of 2330 March 7th, Train 518 Business Class is sold out somewhere between PDX and VAC, and Coach fare is chugging upwards, higher than any of the Rail+Bus itineraries. Ditto for Train 517.

So, still not enough seats? Amtrak cannot provide enough capacity ?i

 

[trimetbusfan]

So, still not enough seats? Amtrak cannot provide enough capacity ?i

The business class will always have an extremely limited set of seats until they stop running the Horizons. There are only 16 business class seats per train, and unlike coaches, more business class seats can't really be added easily.

 

[zephyr17]

The business class will always have an extremely limited set of seats until they stop running the Horizons. There are only 16 business class seats per train, and unlike coaches, more business class seats can't really be added easily.

And the BC in those Horizons really kinda sucks. How did they forget overhead luggage racks?

 

[trimetbusfan]

And the BC in those Horizons really kinda sucks. How did they forget overhead luggage racks?

Some of the cars do have luggage racks, while others don't.

I also noticed on the 'lounge'/table side of the Horizon cafe, some cars will have power outlets at the tables, and others don't!

I personally think the seats themselves are better than the Talgos, but sometimes the LSA or Conductors won't face the seats to match the direction of travel on same-day-turn trains, so sometimes you will be forced to face backward the whole trip, which I greatly dislike.

Anyway, many unknowns! On par with Amtrak service standards I guess..

 

[zephyr17]

Some of the cars do have luggage racks, while others don't.

I also noticed on the 'lounge'/table side of the Horizon cafe, some cars will have power outlets at the tables, and others don't!

I personally think the seats themselves are better than the Talgos, but sometimes the LSA or Conductors won't face the seats to match the direction of travel on same-day-turn trains, so sometimes you will be forced to face backward the whole trip, which I greatly dislike.

Anyway, many unknowns! On par with Amtrak service standards I guess..

View attachment 31649

I only rode a Horizon set once so far, it was in BC in a car that didn't have luggage racks. Getting on in Everett (going to VAC) I was also stuck in a bulkhead seat so there wasn't even under seat storage available. It also had a storage closet across the aisle, not a row with a window. That seat should not have been sold at all, let alone at a premium price (much higher than the relatively nominal BC surcharge since the BC inventory is separate and was in top bucket).

I will not be buying BC on a Horizon set again. Coach looked a lot more comfortable than that awful seat. You can often tell which trains have Talgo versus Horizon by looking at the BC prices.

If they are not going to turn the Horizon seats at the terminals, they ought to do what they did the last couple times Superliners subbed for Talgos on 516/519 in the Before Times. The cars were set up with half the seats one way, half the other. So you had at least a 50% chance of facing forward.

 

[IAlam]

Some of the cars do have luggage racks, while others don't.

I also noticed on the 'lounge'/table side of the Horizon cafe, some cars will have power outlets at the tables, and others don't!

I personally think the seats themselves are better than the Talgos, but sometimes the LSA or Conductors won't face the seats to match the direction of travel on same-day-turn trains, so sometimes you will be forced to face backward the whole trip, which I greatly dislike.

Anyway, many unknowns! On par with Amtrak service standards I guess..

View attachment 31649

Do you think passengers would be allowed to flip the seats themselves? I'd flip everyone's seats for them if it allows us to sit forward.

 

[trimetbusfan]

Do you think passengers would be allowed to flip the seats themselves? I'd flip everyone's seats for them if it allows us to sit forward.

The crew dosen't like it when you do this.. I think the problem is that once everyone is seated and situated it would be kind of a hassle to make everyone stand up while they flipped their seat around.

Also, for the record, a properly trained crew will flip the seats to match the direction of travel, but not all do. I have been on at least one trip where heading southbound, all the seats were facing northbound, and I have seen videos on YouTube of this happening too.

 

[Bob Dylan]

The crew dosen't like it when you do this.. I think the problem is that once everyone is seated and situated it would be kind of a hassle to make everyone stand up while they flipped their seat around.

Also, for the record, a properly trained crew will flip the seats to match the direction of travel, but not all do. I have been on at least one trip where heading southbound, all the seats were facing northbound, and I have seen videos on YouTube of this happening too.

When the Thru Cars ( Sleeper and Coach)on the Texas Eagle #421 are connected to the Sunset Ltd #1 in San Antonio , the Seats in the Coach are turned by the Attendant and Conductors once it's Daylight on the Way West( #1 Leaves SAS @ 2:45AM)since the Coach can be hooked up "Backwards" during the Switching.

This isn't always done on the #2 to #22 Texas Eagle departing San Antonio for Chicago, resulting in some Coach Passengers riding " Backwards" all the way to Chicago!

 

[Trogdor]

And the BC in those Horizons really kinda sucks. How did they forget overhead luggage racks?

Some Horizon club-dinettes were converted from full dinette/cafe car configuration, which didn't have luggage racks.

Others were converted from half-dinette, half-coach configuration, and the coach side had luggage racks when built.

 

[zephyr17]

Some Horizon club-dinettes were converted from full dinette/cafe car configuration, which didn't have luggage racks.

Others were converted from half-dinette, half-coach configuration, and the coach side had luggage racks when built.

Unfortunately, my response is "so what?" If Amtrak was converting dinettes, understandably without luggage racks, to revenue passenger cars, they should have installed standard revenue seating amenities, like luggage racks. Passengers expect luggage racks.

Then there is the issue of consistency, in which Amtrak runs a master class in not providing for almost everything they do.

Happy to know the reason, though, even though it falls more into the category of "excuse".

 

[IAlam]

The crew dosen't like it when you do this.. I think the problem is that once everyone is seated and situated it would be kind of a hassle to make everyone stand up while they flipped their seat around.

Also, for the record, a properly trained crew will flip the seats to match the direction of travel, but not all do. I have been on at least one trip where heading southbound, all the seats were facing northbound, and I have seen videos on YouTube of this happening too.

I guess if I were to do it I’d have to be quick and before everyone else gets on. But I would definitely be very unhappy if I was forced to ride backwards because of crew negligence.

 

[danasgoodstuff]

I couldn't care less about riding backwards. By myself in a roomette I often sit that way.

 

[railiner]

I too, strongly prefer to ride facing forward. The motion has nothing to do with it…indeed facing backward is probably more comfortable, since trains can decelerate much faster than they can accelerate.

However, when you face forward, you get an earlier view of points of interest, allowing you to focus on it as it passes by. When facing backward, by the time you recognize same, it is rapidly diminishing in the distance.

The old Pullman Company recognized the preferred forward view, by assigning those in the higher priced open section lower berth, the forward facing seat during daytime travel.

 

[jis]

I too, strongly prefer to ride facing forward. The motion has nothing to do with it…indeed facing backward is probably more comfortable, since trains can decelerate much faster than they can accelerate.

And for the same reason safer in a collision/derailment involving sudden deceleration too.

 

[carol149]

I too, strongly prefer to ride facing forward. The motion has nothing to do with it…indeed facing backward is probably more comfortable, since trains can decelerate much faster than they can accelerate.

However, when you face forward, you get an earlier view of points of interest, allowing you to focus on it as it passes by. When facing backward, by the time you recognize same, it is rapidly diminishing in the distance.

The old Pullman Company recognized the preferred forward view, by assigning those in the higher priced open section lower berth, the forward facing seat during daytime travel.

Car sick when facing backward.

 

[ChuckL]

Unrelated to the prior discussions, I would like to know if anyone has been able to check their luggage frim Vancouver, BC to Seattle, WA on the evening train, and can it be checked in the morning after we get off of a cruise ship?i haven't seen mention of it in lieu of the baggage racks and question whether the service exist as as I am mobility disabled.

Also does anyone have a current copy of the Bistro Menu as it sounds like it has been expanded and we would like to have a dinner of more than microwaved sandwiches. Or if not, where in the area of the Pan Pacific Station is there that we could get a carryout dinner from and bring it with us onboard?

 

[zephyr17]

Unrelated to the prior discussions, I would like to know if anyone has been able to check their luggage frim Vancouver, BC to Seattle, WA on the evening train, and can it be checked in the morning after we get off of a cruise ship?i haven't seen mention of it in lieu of the baggage racks and question whether the service exist as as I am mobility disabled.

Also does anyone have a current copy of the Bistro Menu as it sounds like it has been expanded and we would like to have a dinner of more than microwaved sandwiches. Or if not, where in the area of the Pan Pacific Station is there that we could get a carryout dinner from and bring it with us onboard?

Cascades 519 handles checked baggage to Seattle from Vancouver. However, Vancouver is unusual in that you cannot check it early because the baggage must be with you during the US Immigration inspection immediately prior to boarding, plus the station is not staffed by Amtrak personnel. Baggage check is done trainside by the Amtrak train crew after US Immigration.

However, VIA's baggage room will day check your luggage and hold it for a fee ($10 CAD per piece, IIRC). You will have to reclaim all your luggage from VIA and have it with you before lining up for check in and US Immigration inspection (one line, you check in, then proceed through US inspection). You should know check in closes 15 minutes before departure so US Immigration inspection can be completed before scheduled departure. At VAC, you should really arrive no later than 45 minutes before departure and preferably an hour (I always shoot for 4:30 myself). You will probably have to line up to retrieve your day checked bags from VIA, too. During cruise season you won't be the only one doing it.

There isn't much in the way of food in the immediate area of Pacific Central Station, there's an A&W on the other side of Main Street by the Main Street/Science World Skytrain station (there used to be one in station, but it closed). In any case, you really cannot bring dinner onboard, unless dinner is crackers and mozzarella sticks. Most freshly prepared food will not be allowed past US inspection and they'll make you toss it. If you try to hide it and get caught, you'll be in for a possible fine and a note on your passport record that will get likely you pulled into secondary inspections every time you enter the US for a long, long time. Most commercially packaged snacks are okay (not meat products, though).

I don't have the current Cascades menu. It is the National cafe menu with some additional items. The Ivar's Clam Chowder is one they always have, and that's great.

VIA waives the day check charges to hold baggage for 519 for those arriving on the Canadian in Sleeper Plus or Prestige classes, BTW.

 

[Metra Electric Rider]

Unfortunately, my response is "so what?" If Amtrak was converting dinettes, understandably without luggage racks, to revenue passenger cars, they should have installed standard revenue seating amenities, like luggage racks. Passengers expect luggage racks.

Then there is the issue of consistency, in which Amtrak runs a master class in not providing for almost everything they do.

Happy to know the reason, though, even though it falls more into the category of "excuse".

Not to be overly argumentative or pedantic, but I wonder if the overhead luggage racks require reinforcing structure built into the cars from the get go and is not possible to add easily or for a reasonable cost during refurbishments (and possibly time constraints on the refurbs too, since it's custom metal work and possible a different trade).

Note that I say this without that much knowledge of how the cars are actually built structurally (and their general actual assembly) and how Amtrak's construction trades for refurbs work, but base it on my knowledge of construction. Things are sometimes very complicated with structural items - especially cantilevers which the racks essentially are.

 

[zephyr17]

Not to be overly argumentative or pedantic, but I wonder if the overhead luggage racks require reinforcing structure built into the cars from the get go and is not possible to add easily or for a reasonable cost during refurbishments (and possibly time constraints on the refurbs too, since it's custom metal work and possible a different trade).

Note that I say this without that much knowledge of how the cars are actually built structurally (and their general actual assembly) and how Amtrak's construction trades for refurbs work, but base it on my knowledge of construction. Things are sometimes very complicated with structural items - especially cantilevers which the racks essentially are.

That may be, although the shells are the same, I do not know what is between the shell and the car interior.

As to "reasonable cost and time" or "different trades" I still do not find those to be acceptable reasons. Pay the money and get the people to do it right, or don't do it. Especially for an allegedly "premium" product.

Having to do a major teardown and reconstruction (as opposed to just throwing in some seats and putting up a hypothetically simple rack) is certainly a possibility, but even there, do it right or don't do it applies. So don't do it. If they didn't realize it would be complicated and expensive before starting, it's still on them.

To me it remains a prime example Amtrak's half-buttocked approach to so many things.

 

[ChuckL]

Cascades 519 handles checked baggage to Seattle from Vancouver. However, Vancouver is unusual in that you cannot check it early because the baggage must be with you during the US Immigration inspection immediately prior to boarding, plus the station is not staffed by Amtrak personnel. Baggage check is done trainside by the Amtrak train crew after US Immigration.

However, VIA's baggage room will day check your luggage and hold it for a fee ($10 CAD per piece, IIRC). You will have to reclaim all your luggage from VIA and have it with you before lining up for check in and US Immigration inspection (one line, you check in, then proceed through US inspection). You should know check in closes 15 minutes before departure so US Immigration inspection can be completed before scheduled departure. At VAC, you should really arrive no later than 45 minutes before departure and preferably an hour (I always shoot for 4:30 myself). You will probably have to line up to retrieve your day checked bags from VIA, too. During cruise season you won't be the only one doing it.

There isn't much in the way of food in the immediate area of Pacific Central Station, there's an A&W on the other side of Main Street by the Main Street/Science World Skytrain station (there used to be one in station, but it closed). In any case, you really cannot bring dinner onboard, unless dinner is crackers and mozzarella sticks. Most freshly prepared food will not be allowed past US inspection and they'll make you toss it. If you try to hide it and get caught, you'll be in for a possible fine and a note on your passport record that will get likely you pulled into secondary inspections every time you enter the US for a long, long time. Most commercially packaged snacks are okay (not meat products, though).

I don't have the current Cascades menu. It is the National cafe menu with some additional items. The Ivar's Clam Chowder is one they always have, and that's great.

VIA waives the day check charges to hold baggage for 519 for those arriving on the Canadian in Sleeper Plus or Prestige classes, BTW.

Thanks Zephyr. I would have never thought about bringing food across the border. Being from Detroit, we often had dinner in Windsor, Ontario and brought our leftovers home. Never had any issues, but we won't tempt fate. Maybe we'll have breakfast at the Pan Pacific, have them hold our luggage, wander around the area and then claim our luggage and take a taxi to the train station.

 

[zephyr17]

Being from Detroit, we often had dinner in Windsor, Ontario and brought our leftovers home.

Betcha you didn't declare the leftovers

I am a frequent border crosser myself, both on the Cascades and in my own car. The inspection process on the Cascades is much more similar to an airport inspection than crossing in a car and can be more intrusive/intense than the officer at the booth at a highway crossing generally is. If you are carrying a bag of take out, you will be told to toss it.

Personally, I don't push the food rules at all (which are the same for any mode). The details are quite complex should you want to get into them (avocados are apparently okay, oranges are not), but a simple rule of thumb is packaged products are okay except meat, not commercially packaged, no.

I am a NEXUS member, and NEXUS members are expected to know and abide by ALL the rules without being asked or prompted. That is the "trust" part of "trusted traveler". I am anxious to protect my NEXUS card, it is just too damned handy. There are few quicker ways to have a NEXUS membership revoked than to violate the food/ag rules.

When in doubt, declare.

 

[zephyr17]

I found the current Cascades Bistro Menu. It is pretty much the same as the National Cafe menu, plus some local products like Snoqualmie Oatmeal, Ivar's Chowder and some local beers.

https://www.amtrakcascades.com/sites/default/files/national-cafe-menu-6-1-22.pdf

 

[flitcraft]

Good local beers on that Cascade Bistro Menu list--especially the Black Butte Porter.

 

[toddinde]

I prefer riding facing forward, but on a shorter run it’s not a big deal. In Europe, it’s par for the course and nobody thinks anything of it.

 

[zephyr17]

I prefer riding facing forward, but on a shorter run it’s not a big deal. In Europe, it’s par for the course and nobody thinks anything of it.

I prefer it myself, but can deal with riding backwards. I have a good friend who gets motion sick riding backwards, though. Not everyone can just shrug it off.