Amtrak Derailment Philadelphia (5/12/2015)

[Ryan]

Local news just reported that one of the 6 killed is a USNA Midshipman.

 

[Ryan]

Is That Worth Repairing?

There's no way we have enough information to answer that.

Edit: It's also not "brand new", it's been in service for over a year.

 

[Guest]

Is there anyone who's questioning the safety of the train with no seatbelts? Six have died so far today in a derailment in Philadelphia. Many traumatic injuries. How are trains exempt from seatbelt requirement?

How are busses exempt too?

Regardless, from the briefing by Crush, many of the injuries were from flying objects like large, heavy, pieces of luggage. IMHO, if you're destined to be wacked in the head by flying luggage, briefcase, or laptop, a seatbelt isn't going to protect you much.

 

[Ryan]

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/20150514_SEPTA_train_hit_by_projectile_before_Amtrak_crash.html

Interesting report. Obviously nothing at this point to show that they're related.

Just before Tuesday's deadly Amtrak derailment, a SEPTA commuter train in the same corridor was crippled by a projectile sent through the engineer's window.

SEPTA officials said their investigation was continuing, but that there was no immediate indication the two incidents were related.

At about 9:25 p.m. Tuesday, SEPTA's northbound Train 769, en route to Trenton on tracks on the Northeast Corridor beside the Amtrak rails, was struck by "an unknown projectile" that broke the engineer's window, SEPTA spokeswoman Jerri Williams said.

 

[AmtrakBlue]

Is there anyone who's questioning the safety of the train with no seatbelts? Six have died so far today in a derailment in Philadelphia. Many traumatic injuries. How are trains exempt from seatbelt requirement?

Even if there were seat belts, pax are allowed to get up and walk the train, so it would not be inconceivable that many would be hurt or killed even if all those who were seated were buckled in.

 

[chaos624]

The news conference has been moved up to 10 am EST according to CNN.

 

[Ryan]

Surveillence video where you can barely see the train just before the crash.

http://6abc.com/news/6-dead-dozens-hospitalized-in-amtrak-train-derailment/718111/

Looks like it took 5 seconds for the train to pass.

7 amfleets @ 85' = 595'

1 ACS-64 @ 70'

Total train length ~665'

665/5=133 feet per second is 90 MPH

Conclusive? Hardly. Anyone see where I could have screwed up?

 

[Allypet]

Unfortunately it's now easy to estimate the speed of the train.

 

[jebr]

Surveillence video where you can barely see the train just before the crash.

http://6abc.com/news/6-dead-dozens-hospitalized-in-amtrak-train-derailment/718111/

Looks like it took 5 seconds for the train to pass.

7 amfleets @ 85' = 595'

1 ACS-64 @ 70'

Total train length ~665'

665/5=133 feet per second is 90 MPH

Conclusive? Hardly. Anyone see where I could have screwed up?

Here's where you screwed up. h34r:

I should really just take my own advice and shut up until there's more info though.

 

[Ryan]

There was more info, the video!

 

[Dutch]

Surveillence video where you can barely see the train just before the crash.

http://6abc.com/news/6-dead-dozens-hospitalized-in-amtrak-train-derailment/718111/

Looks like it took 5 seconds for the train to pass.

7 amfleets @ 85' = 595'

1 ACS-64 @ 70'

Total train length ~665'

665/5=133 feet per second is 90 MPH

Conclusive? Hardly. Anyone see where I could have screwed up?

Exactly my calculation.

 

[WinNix]

Comparing past accidents that have been investigated by officials and ongoing accident scenes is like comparing apples to apple seeds. You can't draw any meaningful conclusions that way...

I will say that bad as this looks (and no doubt will get as the night winds on) it could have been much worse. Amtrak's worst accident in at least 15 years and over 90% survived, less than half seriously injured. Oftentimes transportation accidents result with 100% casualties.

edit for clarity, jis.

Please check the definition of the word "casualty"....it is NOT limited to deaths only...it also means injuries. It has been misused all night and all morning long by the news media and other.

Often, we* are told to not even speak to the media, and let the chief handle all media communication. Some of their required training/classroom work is specifically how to interact with the media. I don't think I've ever heard our chief staff use "casualty" - they clearly use death/injury verbiage.

*we - I am a firefighter with derailment & mass casualty training and experience.

 

[Bob Dylan]

Excellent post re media relations! Almost every company and organization has spokespersons whose sole job is to interact with media!

When I was a Firefighter/ EMT ( back in Ancient times) the ranking person ( usually a Captain or Chief) on the scene was the only person allowed to speak with the media and any follow up was handled by the Department Chiefs Office or Fire Marshall!

The biggest criticism of Amtrak I heard last night was that they were doing a Slow and poor job of communicating with the media!

 

[Guest]

Surveillence video where you can barely see the train just before the crash.

http://6abc.com/news/6-dead-dozens-hospitalized-in-amtrak-train-derailment/718111/

Looks like it took 5 seconds for the train to pass.

7 amfleets @ 85' = 595'

1 ACS-64 @ 70'

Total train length ~665'

665/5=133 feet per second is 90 MPH

Conclusive? Hardly. Anyone see where I could have screwed up?

Did I miss it, but is there any way to tell where that video was taken? It says "seconds before the crash", but if it was 300 seconds, then there was plenty of time for the train to get down to 50 MPH... Are the flashes of light late in the video indicative of the crash occurring, or from some other source entirely?

Also, is there any reason to believe the on-screen clock showed the correct absolute time? Finally, has the exact time of the crash been publicized?

Not saying you are wrong in any way, just brainstorming possible answers to your last question...

Guest

 

[WinNix]

Excellent post re media relations! Almost every company and organization has spokespersons whose sole job is to interact with media!

When I was a Firefighter/ EMT ( back in Ancient times) the ranking person ( usually a Captain or Chief) on the scene was the only person allowed to speak with the media and any follow up was handled by the Department Chiefs Office or Fire Marshall!

The biggest criticism of Amtrak I heard last night was that they were doing a Slow and poor job of communicating with the media!

Currently, and for the past (several) years, speaking to the media interview-style without clearance from a chief or the captain is almost an automatic suspension. The only exception is if they catch you offguard and are in your face.

 

[Ryan]

I greatly appreciate the brainstorming.

The flashes you see in the video come from the energized catenary being destroyed, so the time period between the train passing (39-44 seconds) and the first last (46 seconds) indicates it's right there.

Good thought that I hadn't considered, though.

 

[WinNix]

To those advocating seatbelts - I do not disagree but I don't think that will be a reality any time soon. You will see mandatory seatbelts on buses and planes first (full ride/flight, not turbulence only). There are a lot of other factors that come into play as well.

 

[Bob Dylan]

We still don't have seatbelts on our yellow school buses here in the peoples Republic of Texas!

I for one am not opposed to having them available in trains but the cost is prohibitive and wouldn't want to see them made mandatory on Amtrak Trains!

( can you imagine commuter rail and subways where they pack 'em in like sardines having seat belts??!!)

 

[NE933]

TV footage appears to be showing that they are moving a severed portion of one of the smashed Amfleet cars with a lifting machine of some kind.

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

Please check the definition of the word "casualty"....it is NOT limited to deaths only...it also means injuries. It has been misused all night and all morning long by the news media and other.

Yes, and if you re-read my post you will find I used it correctly. I said 100% causality not 100% fatality.

 

[WinNix]

We still don't have seatbelts on our yellow school buses here in the peoples Republic of Texas!

I for one am not opposed to having them available in trains but the cost is prohibitive and wouldn't want to see them made mandatory on Amtrak Trains!

( can you imagine commuter rail and subways where they pack 'em in like sardines having seat belts??!!)

I agree that seatbelt rules on commuter trains would be impossible to enforce. MNRR cars that have 103 seats have standing room for at least another 20 people - not even counting aisle space that people use during rush hour. I really don't see how or why they would be installed on LD trains or even enforced. I think it would be a waste of money, frankly. I think they would be put to better use on buses and planes (full flight except bathroom runs). EDIT: Apologies for going on a tangent, I will try to refrain from posting anything not incident related.

 

[chrsjrcj]

Seatbelts on trains would be impossible to enforce unless there is one employee of the nanny state in almost every car on every train, since you can't expect a Conductor and AC to be responsible for 5-10 coach cars. You have multiple flight attendants for just one fuselage. It'd be a heck of jobs program.

 

[chrsjrcj]

But based off the theory that one of the Amfleets struck the catenary pole, I fail to see how seatbelts would've saved lives in that case.

 

[tracy]

the theory of this train flying through there at 106 mph is absurd.

amtrak does NOT go fast through this area, at all.

nooooo, im not a train "expert" or employee, just a passenger.

recently took long distance trip and at 80 mph It Was Noticable! we couldnt help but remark "wow!!! we are flyyyying!" and asked our attendant to confirm our speed,

so, i mean, seriously.... people who take this train everyday would Certainly notice if they were rocketing through there at 106.

logic people. logic

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

amtrak does NOT go fast through this area, at all.

Amtrak does not go that fast through that area normally. Clearly last night something was abnormal. Logically, it could have been the speed.