Amtrak Dining and Cafe Service discussion 2024 H1

[Bob Dylan]

as someone whose adopted home is in the South......well, no, this is bait, I ain't taking it.


On topic: every time I used to get grits they either came plain, or already had butter on them. Most often they were plain and you added butter/salt/pepper to taste (though as I remember, they were ALREADY pretty salty)

Key phrase is ".. adopted home is in the South.."

I grew up in various places ( AFB Bases) in the South, and my dad was from South Carolina.

Every Southerner I ate with @ Breakast had Grits served with Butter and Syrup/Molasses or Jelly, plus as you said Salt/ most Southerners used too much of this.

YMMV

 

[jis]

MODERATOR'S NOTE: Time to move away from the to and fro about "grits" and back to discussing the topic of the thread please

 

[orm518]

I never experienced "fresh contemporary" but the items looked much better in quality and definitely sounded more appealing to me.

I happened to take the Cap Limited the first weekend of the "fresh contemporary" aka wooden boxes of cold food. June 2018.

I didn't think they were half bad! However, I can see people complaining about lack of hot options. The options offered were also formulaic (protein on a salad was 2-3 options) so could either get boring or if you're an eater afraid of salad greens....

My train got cancelled in Cumberland, Maryland and we got bussed to DC, so the crew just started handing out more of these food boxes to the sleeper pax while we were stopped for 5 hours waiting for busses. So, I think by the end of it all I had tried every option between a dinner, breakfast, lunch, and then an unscheduled late lunch during the delay.

 

[Molly]

Very interesting reading all these posts. I sometimes ride the LSL from Chicago to Rochester and I could swear that the schedule changed sometime in the last couple decades or so. I now board so late that I only get breakfast, which in recent times has stood out only for how disappointing it’s been.

 

[tgstubbs1]

I happened to take the Cap Limited the first weekend of the "fresh contemporary" aka wooden boxes of cold food. June 2018.

I didn't think they were half bad! However, I can see people complaining about lack of hot options. The options offered were also formulaic (protein on a salad was 2-3 options) so could either get boring or if you're an eater afraid of salad greens....

I didn't realize that dining options have changed so much over the years.
I found this article with some interesting information about airline food, which probably isn't really any better than Amtrak food.
For one thing, after the 9-11 Trade Center incident, some knives were banned from the plane's galleys. Airline food hasn't been the same since.
Another thing, before deregulation in 1978, airline food was also regulated.
"For decades, the federal government regulated airfare and routes, so airlines tried to set themselves apart with service, food and the kind of luxury usually afforded cruise passengers – or a Bond villain.
Until 1978, when the airline industry was deregulated, the law required that every passenger got an entrée, two vegetables, a salad, dessert and a drink as part of their ticket price, according to the Smithsonian."

https://www.cnn.com/2024/05/11/busi...vel/index.html?utm_source=pocket-newtab-en-us

This article mentions a food service company called "Gategroup". They have a pretty big web site for all of their various branches.

Their food looks pretty good and they have a number of locations all over the US, so I wonder if Amtrak has considered them?

 

[zephyr17]

This article mentions a food service company called "Gategroup". They have a pretty big web site for all of their various branches.

Their food looks pretty good and they have a number of locations all over the US, so I wonder if Amtrak has considered them?

Well, Amtrak has outsourced commissary services to Aramark for many, many years. All food served on Amtrak, Acela First and Flex heat-and-eat meals, traditional dining, and cafe offerings, comes from Aramark. Amtrak negotiates the specs with Aramark, they provide the product.

If Amtrak chose, and Gategroup offered a competitive bid against Aramark, they could doubtless become Amtrak’s commissary services provider. But Amtrak would still play a large part in specing the products served.

Splitting up into multiple commissary services providers for different product lines would not make economic sense from the perspectives of both economics of scale and negotiating leverage.

 

[MARC Rider]

Another thing, before deregulation in 1978, airline food was also regulated.
"For decades, the federal government regulated airfare and routes, so airlines tried to set themselves apart with service, food and the kind of luxury usually afforded cruise passengers – or a Bond villain.

As someone who was a semi-regular airline passenger between 1971 and 1978 (before airline deregulation), I can assure you that the food served to coach passengers, though much better than what is (or is not) served now, was not "the kind of luxury usually afforded cruise passengers -- or a Bond Villian." The poor quality of airline food was a punch line for comedians of the era. But it is true that you were served a full, mostly edible, meal.

Actually, even after deregulation, it took a few years for the food service on the legacy carriers to deteriorate. Of course, by the early 1980s, there were many discount carriers that had no food service at all, but I remember getting airline meals from carriers like United, Delta, American, USAir, etc, which were comparable to pre 1978 food. On the other hand, by the mid 1980's, food service was severely degraded on Frank Lorenzo's Continental Airlines, and by the 1990's, there were even some cheapskate moves by a few of the legacy carriers, like grab and go breakfasts and lunches for shorter flights. (They had a cooler at the gate where you took a sandwich or a yogurt and pastry or whatever as you boarded.) Food service for coach passengers really collapsed after 9/11 (2001). By 2005, when I was traveling semi-regularly to Texas, it was totally gone.

 

[Palmland]

Ironically, Continental was one of the last airlines to offer meals to coach passengers. I don’t remember the reason I was on a Continental flight but thinking the hamburger was pretty good. According to this article it apparently ended in 2010.

Continental coach food

 

[Amtrakfflyer]

I actually enjoyed the grab and go in the jetway cooler. Semi surprised no one has brought it back as an advertised amenity. Closest I’ve seen recently was being handed a 16oz bottle of water as I scanned my boarding pass on an Avelo flight.

As far as Amtrak goes, earlier in the thread Amtrak said they need X amount of additional funding to end flexible dining. I haven’t seen a straight answer on here or from RPA. Is there a plan B (from the working group) if the additional funding doesn’t materialize? I imagine each flexible meal cost Amtrak $35-40 or more from previous company statements. There’s got to be a way to provide better, healthier, more edible food in that same price range.

Flexible dining appears to be one of the least thought out schemes Amtrak has not only ever implemented but boneheadedly has stuck with.

 

[railiner]

Another thing, before deregulation in 1978, airline food was also regulated.
"For decades, the federal government regulated airfare and routes, so airlines tried to set themselves apart with service, food and the kind of luxury usually afforded cruise passengers – or a Bond villain.
Until 1978, when the airline industry was deregulated, the law required that every passenger got an entrée, two vegetables, a salad, dessert and a drink as part of their ticket price, according to the Smithsonian

I agree that airlines were regulated on routes, fares, and schedules, and they tried to set themselves apart, by competing with equipment and service; but I have never heard of regulations on what was served…I would love to see the source of that law beyond “ the Smithsonian”…

 

[TheVig]

Seat side, carved prime rib on Pan Am, first class.

For what some of us pay for sleeper tickets on Amtrak these days, you would think we could at least get a seat side, sliced deli roast beef sammich.

 

[crescent-zephyr]

I found this article with some interesting information about airline food, which probably isn't really any better than Amtrak food.

In my opinion - Domestic First is better than Flex and not as good as Traditional Dining on Amtrak. So I guess that means on average it's the same.

Aramark can provide anything Amtrak wants - the cage-free eggs for Traditional Dining and the pre-made, frozen, and then reheated "omlette" for flex both start with an order and then delivery from them. One of the many reasons it's so upsetting to get such low quality options for Flex - they could easily order a good-quality entree salad that was packaged Vegan and Gluten Free with options to add separate pre-packaged cheese and meat. Would be a wonderful addition and make Flex much more palatable... literally haha.

 

[zephyr17]

One of the many reasons it's so upsetting to get such low quality options for Flex - they could easily order a good-quality entree salad that was packaged Vegan and Gluten Free with options to add separate pre-packaged cheese and meat. Would be a wonderful addition and make Flex much more palatable... literally haha.

Yeah, the salad thing I especially do not get. When I take the Lake Shore out of Moynihan, I've taken to picking up a really good salad in the Metropolitan Lounge and I carry it onboard instead of having the sad little Flex salad. What really strikes me when I do this is that I know the salad I pick up in the Metropolitan Lounge was provided by Aramark. I just have to carry it onboard myself instead of having it loaded for me as part of the Flex consignment.

 

[Amtrakfflyer]

Seat side, carved prime rib on Pan Am, first class.

For what some of us pay for sleeper tickets on Amtrak these days, you would think we could at least get a seat side, sliced deli roast beef sammich.

Haha, Subway would be better at this point. I know there was union issues with Subway on the NEC once upon a time. How about teaching the LSA to put together a basic deli sandwich? Two basic sandwiches, fresh bread, condiments on the side, chips and a scoop of fruit salad. It’s not even out of the box thinking. It’s just can do thinking.

 

[user 14106]

Amtrak decides the menus and chooses the product internally. Aramark's role at Amtrak is basically just a logistical middle man operating the commissaries for them. The flexible dining meals are not produced internally by Aramark - they are the product of another vendor. They may use some internal Aramark produced product for the traditional dining service - but I am not 100% sure where that is sourced from. While Aramark is capable of doing your full food service program for you including deciding on menus their scope with Amtrak is relatively narrow compared to what they do for some customers. Amtrak makes a lot of the decisions in house. If they wanted to they could completely 100% outsource F&B to Aramark altogether like they do for the Metropolitian Lounge. But the OBS union would probably have something to say about that and Congress probably wouldn't allow it.

 

[McLeansvilleAppFan]

I have a 5 segment round trip at the end of June and all in roomette so I will be getting more than few flex meals. I am wondering what to expect in the amount of meals, assuming the train is on time.

1. Crescent Greensboro to Charlottesville (7:30 AM to 10:54 AM) so I expect one meal being breakfast.
2. Cardinal Charlottesville to Cincinnati. (1:52 PM to 1:31 AM) I am hoping for lunch soon after arrival and then the evening meal, regardless of what it is called.
3. Cardinal Cincinnati to Indianapolis (1:41 am to 5:15 am). I assume we are not getting any food.
4. Cardinal Indianapolis to Charlottesville (12:15 am to 3:35 pm) Breakfast and then lunch seems pretty guaranteed.
5. Crescent Charlottesville to Greensboro (8:52 pm to 12:25 am) and I assume no food here.

So maybe 5 meals and maybe 4, but at least 4.

I need to plan a bit for snacks and possible meals and that might be a cafe meal. Does anyone know when the cafes open and close either by time of day or station stop.

 

[zephyr17]

I have a 5 segment round trip at the end of June and all in roomette so I will be getting more than few flex meals. I am wondering what to expect in the amount of meals, assuming the train is on time.

1. Crescent Greensboro to Charlottesville (7:30 AM to 10:54 AM) so I expect one meal being breakfast.
2. Cardinal Charlottesville to Cincinnati. (1:52 PM to 1:31 AM) I am hoping for lunch soon after arrival and then the evening meal, regardless of what it is called.
3. Cardinal Cincinnati to Indianapolis (1:41 am to 5:15 am). I assume we are not getting any food.
4. Cardinal Indianapolis to Charlottesville (12:15 am to 3:35 pm) Breakfast and then lunch seems pretty guaranteed.
5. Crescent Charlottesville to Greensboro (8:52 pm to 12:25 am) and I assume no food here.

So maybe 5 meals and maybe 4, but at least 4.

I need to plan a bit for snacks and possible meals and that might be a cafe meal. Does anyone know when the cafes open and close either by time of day or station stop.

You can usually count on the cafe opening at 6:00-6:30 am.
There is no real way to predict when the cafe attendant will choose take their meal breaks (or for how long). Just listen for the announcements.
Generally, they will stay open until 10 or 11 at night, but it's Amtrak, YMMV.
They'll close at least one stop/30 minutes before the terminal station. They could close earlier. Again, listen for announcement.

 

[McLeansvilleAppFan]

You can usually count on the cafe opening at 6:00-6:30 am.
There is no real way to predict when the cafe attendant will choose take their meal breaks (or for how long). Just listen for the announcements.
Generally, they will stay open until 10 or 11 at night, but it's Amtrak, YMMV.
They'll close at least one stop/30 minutes before the terminal station. They could close earlier. Again, listen for announcement.

I am hoping leg 3 runs late so I can get a breakfast AND it will be easier in Indianapolis. Looking as ASMAD it seems that is likely not to happen.

 

[user 14106]

Last time I had flex was on the Crescent - I don't see it as much because the Silvers, which are the LD trains I take most frequently, have traditional dining again. The chicken enchiladas I found halfway decent. The chicken parm was alright too, Those are the only two I tried on the current menu - I'm not a fish guy and the vegetarian one one didn't sound appealing.

 

[user 14106]

RPA confirmed in today’s hotline that effective June 1 the Crescent will receive a Viewliner 2 dining car back to the consist. Flex dining will continue to be served in the diner but it will be fully plated with table cloths, flowers on the table, etc. They have recently introduced this new concept on the Lake Shore. They also revealed that Amtrak is planning to eventually offer this modified flex to coach passengers. Prices will be less than on the traditional dining trains.

 

[zephyr17]

RPA confirmed in today’s hotline that effective June 1 the Crescent will receive a Viewliner 2 dining car back to the consist. Flex dining will continue to be served in the diner but it will be fully plated with table cloths, flowers on the table, etc. They have recently introduced this new concept on the Lake Shore. They also revealed that Amtrak is planning to eventually offer this modified flex to coach passengers. Prices will be less than on the traditional dining trains.

That's good news and bad news. The good news is the Crescent is getting a badly needed second food service car, improving things for everyone, coach and sleeper. The bad news is that "fully plated" Flex and it being planned to be offered to coach passengers seems to indicate they may be doubling down on Flex rather than moving towards traditional. I'd rather live without the flowers and table cloth with Flex if that meant that it was still viewed as temporary.

The phrase "putting lipstick on a pig" comes to mind.

 

[TheVig]

RPA confirmed in today’s hotline that effective June 1 the Crescent will receive a Viewliner 2 dining car back to the consist. Flex dining will continue to be served in the diner but it will be fully plated with table cloths, flowers on the table, etc. They have recently introduced this new concept on the Lake Shore. They also revealed that Amtrak is planning to eventually offer this modified flex to coach passengers. Prices will be less than on the traditional dining trains.

It's a step in the right direction. However............... I won't be happy until real traditional dining returns.

 

[crescent-zephyr]

RPA confirmed in today’s hotline that effective June 1 the Crescent will receive a Viewliner 2 dining car back to the consist. Flex dining will continue to be served in the diner but it will be fully plated with table cloths, flowers on the table, etc. They have recently introduced this new concept on the Lake Shore. They also revealed that Amtrak is planning to eventually offer this modified flex to coach passengers. Prices will be less than on the traditional dining trains.

Interesting, it sounds like staffing is no longer the issue keeping Flex dining on some trains but rather a choice to test a fancy version of flex.

Does anyone know if there are certain things an LSA can't do vs. a chef? For example - could they make up a pot of chili for lunch? Or some sort of Lasagna or Casserole that can be made in one large batch and kept warm in the oven? Then you just need 1 LSA to plate the food - but we get something better than flex.

 

[joelkfla]

RPA confirmed in today’s hotline that effective June 1 the Crescent will receive a Viewliner 2 dining car back to the consist. Flex dining will continue to be served in the diner but it will be fully plated with table cloths, flowers on the table, etc. They have recently introduced this new concept on the Lake Shore. They also revealed that Amtrak is planning to eventually offer this modified flex to coach passengers. Prices will be less than on the traditional dining trains.

I wonder whether this will be the end to the diner doubling as a 1st class lounge between meal periods.

 

[crescent-zephyr]

I wonder whether this will be the end to the diner doubling as a 1st class lounge between meal periods.

That was something that I hoped would stay - especially on the single-level trains where the Viewliners really are the best car for enjoying the scenery. If I get decent food back like on the Silver Trains, the trade is worth it but to still eat flex food - no! haha.