Amtrak dining and cafe service

[fdaley]

Didnt Mica get elected to some office in Florida??

Even his own constituents grew weary of his schtick and booted him out of office in 2016. His whole campaign against Amtrak's food service was more about scoring political points than about actually saving money.

Now, it certainly was worth asking whether Amtrak could have delivered palatable meal service for less than what it was spending. But any change needed to be something that wouldn't actively drive away customers, which is what flex dining was doing before the pandemic and will continue to do in the future if nothing is changed.

 

[Palmetto]

Didnt Mica get elected to some office in Florida??

Just checked Wikipedia. It seems not.

 

[me_little_me]

Didnt Mica get elected to some office in Florida??

Head of Food Services for Florida School systems?

 

[OBS]

Just checked Wikipedia. It seems not.

You are thinking of Daryl Issa, another Amtrak Gadfly, that just returned to Congress after previously being voted out....

 

[20th Century Rider]

I am a relatively new member so if this topic has been discussed, please disregard it. Sidney recently asked the question, "Does Amtrak know how their customers feel about Flex dining?". Good question. I know I have let them know how terrible it is. Others have described it as "mystery meat", "vomit", "had to throw in the trash", etc.


In this Pandemic age, tasty ready-to-eat microwavable entrees are readily available from various sources (meals by mail, grocery stores, and restaurants, etc.). There is no excuse for serving terrible tasting food on Amtrak. Unless of course, that's the goal. They have to know the food they are serving is terrible based on reviews. Is it because of the cost to Amtrak? Wouldn't this be an opportune time to try different recipes or contract an outside supplier?

I’ve been riding Amtrak since 1979. I don't ride Amtrak for the food. But dining is part of the experience and cost. I have not, nor will I take another trip until either the Flex dining food improves or the full-service diner returns. If Amtrak is going to charge a hefty price for sleeper space and include meals, then the food ought to be edible.


With this in mind, I would think a smart food truck operator could do well meeting the train at longer stops near a mealtime. The only question, how fast could the truck get the food out to customers who have a time constraint?

This topic has been discussed in many strands on the forum. Most are in agreement that the Flex Dining concept is absolutely offensive and horrible... no taste, no texture, small portions, and just plain objectionable. Even with covid, this is unacceptable and suggestions have been made to at least allow sleeping car passengers get meals from the cafe... there are reports that this has been offered in some situations.

So you are not alone in your anger. Add to that the fares going up... and many of us are delaying Amtrak travel. Eating this stuff on a cross country trip is simply not something I will not do!

https://www.rollcall.com/2020/06/29/amtrak-dining-cuts-rile-congress/

 

[Seaboard92]

If you went to the food truck method you would really allow passenger rail dining to devolve to levels not seen since the mid to late 1800s. When trains would pull into a town for a meal stop and everyone would hustle off to get whatever grub they could get, then hustle back twenty minutes later. Some places purposely made the food too hot so people wouldn't finish it all, then they would use the same food over for the next train.

We are in 2021 lets not step back to the 1800s.

 

[AmtrakFlyer]

He’s 78 now so probably not, you might be thinking of Darrel Issa from CA ran for Duncan Hunters vacated seat and won it. Both very anti Amtrak.

 

[crescent-zephyr]

This is an Amtrak management issue. It takes one person to call up the supplier and order better quality menu items. That’s all it takes to improve the food quality.

Now to get full service dining back requires a few more steps but I don’t think table service is a requirement for Amtrak, decent quality food options are especially for $1000+ sleeping car accommodations.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

I wish I knew more about how airlines like BR, JL, CX, & SQ managed the logistics and economics of their premium cabin meals (before C19). That food was both easily transported and good enough that you genuinely looked forward to it, or at least I did. To be fair not everything they served was amazing but on flights leaving home base the mains were as good as anything I've had on a train. I can't help but wonder why this cannot be incorporated into our train service. I guess it has been on the Acela but with some modifications it could be a reasonable solution for long distance trains as well. Amtrak rests in SAS during downtime hours when the airport is dead and a truck from an airline caterer could quickly drive down 281 to restock meals on a daily basis (if that ever comes back again). I used to be lukewarm on this kind of plan but in the face of nationwide flexicon meals I'd happily take this over the status quo.

 

[20th Century Rider]

This is an Amtrak management issue. It takes one person to call up the supplier and order better quality menu items. That’s all it takes to improve the food quality.

Now to get full service dining back requires a few more steps but I don’t think table service is a requirement for Amtrak, decent quality food options are especially for $1000+ sleeping car accommodations.

Hope is out there for Amtrak... we need to get past the pandemic first... and pent up demand will bring people back in droves to patronize goods and services that will build the economy. And more hope with the man who will take an Amtrak train to his inauguration.

And like Crescent-Zephyr said... we should expect all Amtrak services to improve in sync with $1000 plus sleeping car accommodations.

 

[jiml]

I wish I knew more about how airlines like BR, JL, CX, & SQ managed the logistics and economics of their premium cabin meals (before C19). That food was both easily transported and good enough that you genuinely looked forward to it, or at least I did.

You're not the only one, and frankly most of the North American carriers were quite capable of delivering excellent premium food on international flights as well. I've had meals on both AA and United that could be described as memorable - not that long ago. (Other than Alaska, domestic food is a race to the bottom.)

Amtrak rests in SAS during downtime hours when the airport is dead and a truck from an airline caterer could quickly drive down 281 to restock meals on a daily basis (if that ever comes back again). I used to be lukewarm on this kind of plan but in the face of nationwide flexicon meals I'd happily take this over the status quo.

This is a really good plan that should get more attention. Home bases are obvious, but there's a number of places mid-route this would be viable - Denver and SLC come to mind immediately. Heck, Amtrak should be able to negotiate a discount for keeping flight kitchens busy in "off" hours. Some LD trains do lack an appropriate mid-point stop, but that didn't stop the Empire Builder from loading chicken dinners in Montana in the past.

 

[Seaboard92]

What we really need again is local management on each of the routes like we had back in the 90s. That is essentially what Russian Railways does with their "Branded Trains" which are still technically owned and operated by the Federal Passenger Company (RZD Subsidiary) but are independently managed by the local divisions.

If we really wanted to take it to the extreme we could follow the Russian model completely. The "Branded Trains' get a special surcharge put on top of the ticket price because it is a branded train however trains can also loose their "branded status". Every ten years they have to meet certain standards in customer service, OTP, Equipment Standards, and food in order to keep that coveted status. Every year they hold a competition between the 16 Railway Directives for who has the best "Branded Train".

They are judged in three categories best dining car, best service in luxury cars, and best overall train. They evaluate the overall design of the train, level of service, range of service for passengers, and obviously best food. The first part of the competition is a physical inspection of the rolling stock submitted for review, with the second part a video clip of the trains produced by the local managers. Good luck on finding information to see who has the best train because it's really hard to find online, but if you can read Russian, or use google translate you can find several news articles about the competitions.

Now imagine if Amtrak would do this however I would structure it differently. Amtrak has 38 different branded services then have the long distance in one category, and the short corridors in a separate one and then do the top finalists be the top 14. We don't have nearly as many branded services as Russia does for each crew base because using their system the Empire Builder is bound to be in each competition because Seattle has it and the Cascades, same with Miami with the Silver Meteor, and Silver Star.

Give the trains local management that can decide their own food service, their own regional specific decor, manage their own customer service standards, and turn them free to make decisions that are better made on the ground than at a corporate level. It really isn't that hard to have subfleets of cars because Amtrak already has that. Sometimes substitutions have to be made which is understandable.

For instance the lounges on the Auto-Train are captive to that service. The Superliner Coach/Cafe are captive to the Pere Marquette, and Heartland Flyer. The Cross Country Cafe's are held on the Capitol Limited, and the City of New Orleans. The Business Class Superliner is captive to the Coast Starlight. So it wouldn't be that difficult to keep sleepers and coaches with local themes captive to certain routes. With the yards attempting to do the most minimum amount of switching possible it is entirely possible a car might stay stuck on a route for a long time.

Then all we have to do is find an incentive to convince employees who are naturally suspicious of competitions formed by corporate to play along.

 

[jiml]

The next thing you know we'd have Pacific Parlour Cars with separate menus and wine tasting. Oh wait...

 

[Sidney]

As an Amtrak rider for more than 30 years I got to experience the Pacific Parlour Car and the food and free wine tastings. I also remember the free champagne on the Empire Builder,trivia and wine tastings. I remember happy hour in the sightseer car and so many other amenities. I still enjoy riding, but I sure miss those special touches that made long distance riding so enjoyable.

 

[20th Century Rider]

What we really need again is local management on each of the routes like we had back in the 90s. That is essentially what Russian Railways does with their "Branded Trains" which are still technically owned and operated by the Federal Passenger Company (RZD Subsidiary) but are independently managed by the local divisions.

If we really wanted to take it to the extreme we could follow the Russian model completely. The "Branded Trains' get a special surcharge put on top of the ticket price because it is a branded train however trains can also loose their "branded status". Every ten years they have to meet certain standards in customer service, OTP, Equipment Standards, and food in order to keep that coveted status. Every year they hold a competition between the 16 Railway Directives for who has the best "Branded Train".

They are judged in three categories best dining car, best service in luxury cars, and best overall train. They evaluate the overall design of the train, level of service, range of service for passengers, and obviously best food. The first part of the competition is a physical inspection of the rolling stock submitted for review, with the second part a video clip of the trains produced by the local managers. Good luck on finding information to see who has the best train because it's really hard to find online, but if you can read Russian, or use google translate you can find several news articles about the competitions.

Now imagine if Amtrak would do this however I would structure it differently. Amtrak has 38 different branded services then have the long distance in one category, and the short corridors in a separate one and then do the top finalists be the top 14. We don't have nearly as many branded services as Russia does for each crew base because using their system the Empire Builder is bound to be in each competition because Seattle has it and the Cascades, same with Miami with the Silver Meteor, and Silver Star.

Give the trains local management that can decide their own food service, their own regional specific decor, manage their own customer service standards, and turn them free to make decisions that are better made on the ground than at a corporate level. It really isn't that hard to have subfleets of cars because Amtrak already has that. Sometimes substitutions have to be made which is understandable.

For instance the lounges on the Auto-Train are captive to that service. The Superliner Coach/Cafe are captive to the Pere Marquette, and Heartland Flyer. The Cross Country Cafe's are held on the Capitol Limited, and the City of New Orleans. The Business Class Superliner is captive to the Coast Starlight. So it wouldn't be that difficult to keep sleepers and coaches with local themes captive to certain routes. With the yards attempting to do the most minimum amount of switching possible it is entirely possible a car might stay stuck on a route for a long time.

Then all we have to do is find an incentive to convince employees who are naturally suspicious of competitions formed by corporate to play along.

The next thing you know we'd have Pacific Parlour Cars with separate menus and wine tasting. Oh wait...

As an Amtrak rider for more than 30 years I got to experience the Pacific Parlour Car and the food and free wine tastings. I also remember the free champagne on the Empire Builder,trivia and wine tastings. I remember happy hour in the sightseer car and so many other amenities. I still enjoy riding, but I sure miss those special touches that made long distance riding so enjoyable.

Wait! What's going on here??? AU'ers are reacting to not being treated the way they should on LD trains after paying $1000's for sleeping car fares. And that goes for me too... we are now paying huge fares and getting nothing more teeny tiny tastless mush meals that excel in fat, sodium, and carcinogens! They are unsatisfying, disgusting, and depressing! That little bit of genteel glamour and gourmet treatment from the recent past made us all feel as appreciated frequent customers for which in turn Amtrak was raking in our dollars.

Now they are raking in the same big bucks from us as they cut services to the bone.

Ok, there's a pandemic... but Amtrak should know the expectation is there... we've been patient and accepted zero customer services and amenities due to the pandemic... but patience is getting short and thin.

Perhaps I'm only speaking for myself... but suffering hardships while paying for upscale service which just isn't there... has my patience which to ware very thin.

Speaking for myself only... but maybe for others perhaps as well... there is an expectation that an acceptable level of service for high fares paid... will return and bring satisfaction that is expected... once the pandemic has receded.

Below... meal after meal the same, tasteless fat and sodium same same same meal... "gag me with that brownie!" Repeat, the same meal served day after day after day... booooooring!

 

[west point]

I fully support the concept of bring back a route manager for each route to increase ridership.Look how th coast Starlight did. Now as for intermediate station catering.. Here us a list of locations that should provide intermediate catering of level A very good to level B. fair to good.
NYP -B probably difficult to get service to Moynihan ?
WASH - A
Richmond - B
Raleigh - B
Florence - B
Jacksonville - A-
Orlando - A
Atlanta - A
New Orleans - A oh that Cajun food
Memphis - B
Albany -B
Toledo - A-
IND or Cincinnati -B
STL - B
Kansas City - A
Dallas or FtWorth - A Denver - A
Tucson - B PHX probably too far away from Maricopa
Salt Lake - A
Albuquerque - A
StPaul - A
Minot - b
Emeryville - A
Portland, Or - A

 

[Qapla]

I have read a number of posts where people lament the days of free wine, champagne and other alcohol.

Not all travelers drink alcohol - but they do all eat. To me, the dismal food should be more of a concern than the lack of free alcohol along with the ever rising, already inflated cost of riding in a sleeper.

 

[jloewen]

If you went to the food truck method you would really allow passenger rail dining to devolve to levels not seen since the mid to late 1800s. When trains would pull into a town for a meal stop and everyone would hustle off to get whatever grub they could get, then hustle back twenty minutes later. Some places purposely made the food too hot so people wouldn't finish it all, then they would use the same food over for the next train.

We are in 2021 lets not step back to the 1800s.

Not in the 1800s but in 1962 the NWern railroad en route from Duluth/Superior to Chicago stopped at Antigo for 20 minutes for lunch. Amazingly, they then added a cafe car at the next stop, 30 min. later!
Also, since trains in the 1800s were all steam (and much later, too) they had to stop every 40-80 miles for more fuel and water. At a hamlet in MS, an African American man made a living by walking the length of the train, on the outside I believe, calling "Hot coffee!" Hot coffee!" Eventually the place became known as the coffee stop and is now Hot Coffee, MS. Wikipedia has quite a different story, but who are you gonna believe, Wikipedia or a member of the AU forum?

 

[railiner]

IIRC, Amtrak already does, (or did?), have a 'competition' between trains. Didn't they have a "train of the year", at one time? They do indeed reward employees with special recognition for outstanding customer service, in the form of pins worn on uniforms, mention in the Company newspaper, and award dinner's, etc.
Not to mention consideration for promotion...

 

[Railspike]

Another option. Junk the terrible Flex meals and offer good microwavable meals. Here's the difference. The passenger would order their meal(s)s when they purchased their ticket. Amtrak could offer more variety and keep waste to a bare minimum. The meals could be available to sleeper passengers and included in the ticket price, or not included at all. If not included in the ticket price, then any passenger (sleeper or coach) could order their meal(s) in advance, at their option. When stocking the diner for a trip, the meals would be loaded, refrigerated, and identified by the passenger and/or room number, but already paid for. Amtrak could keep extra meals on hand at all times in case a passenger changed his/her mind during travel or if the train was running late. However, when the extra meals for that trip are all gone, they're all gone.

The food has to be of a higher quality or this doesn't work. No one will want to pay in advance for a meal that quality-wise, is no better than the current offering.

If implemented as stated above, everybody wins. The passenger has the option to buy a meal or not, gets more selections, and tastier food. Amtrak gets the benefit of satisfied customers, meals prepaid, less waste and inventory, which equates to lower cost. The online menu could be ever-changing since the meals are prepared and paid for in advance. This would alleviate the issue of having to eat the same meals over a period of days if on a long LD trip. It should also reduce the cost of a sleeper ticket if not included in the ticket price.

If a passenger paid for a meal in advance and did not travel, provided the trip was canceled within a prescribed time, the price paid for the meal could be refunded along with the ticket price.

Obviously, there would be some bugs to work out. Experience and time should supply remedies.

Just a thought.

 

[tgstubbs1]

Do big airlines get a better deal for catering meals than Amtrak, because of their size?

 

[crescent-zephyr]

Do big airlines get a better deal for catering meals than Amtrak, because of their size?

Doubtful. Pretty sure food & beverage loses money for them too. Just like many bars and restaurants lose money at hotels.

 

[20th Century Rider]

Doubtful. Pretty sure food & beverage loses money for them too. Just like many bars and restaurants lose money at hotels.

But it's important to note that Amtrak costs in food and beverage in it's $1000 + sleeper car fares. Ironically, as the food service declined to near nothing... fares have gone up!

 

[crescent-zephyr]

But it's important to note that Amtrak costs in food and beverage in it's $1000 + sleeper car fares. Ironically, as the food service declined to near nothing... fares have gone up!

Oh of course! Some people just seem surprised that things cost money. The enemy is not the catering company, or the on board staff.

The enemy is management that doesn’t understand who their customer is or what they want.

To be totally fair... I think the original contemporary meals, the salad boxes, were a corporate guys idea of what a millennial eats. I never had one but the photos I saw they appeared to be pretty good quality. I’m not sure how we want from all salad boxes to all TV dinners but here we are.

 

[20th Century Rider]

Oh of course! Some people just seem surprised that things cost money. The enemy is not the catering company, or the on board staff.

The enemy is management that doesn’t understand who their customer is or what they want.

To be totally fair... I think the original contemporary meals, the salad boxes, were a corporate guys idea of what a millennial eats. I never had one but the photos I saw they appeared to be pretty good quality. I’m not sure how we want from all salad boxes to all TV dinners but here we are.

Exactly exactly exactly! Those first boxed meals came in a quality balsa box and green cloth carrying bag... and you could order a large complementary 500ml wine. There was also an amenity kit in the bedroom. So if I may repeat your quote one more time... which was well said, "I’m not sure how we want from all salad boxes to all TV dinners but here we are."

But... folks are really agitated with this and I have to think that eventually the management team that doesn't care about their customers is the management team that will be replaced!

https://www.wvgazettemail.com/life/...cle_5179c3c8-962b-5ced-bc38-f5903858b436.html