Amtrak dining and cafe service

[DaveW]

Flex dining also must be related to staffing requirements. Last fall I was on the Empire Builder and it seemed there were 3 less employees in the dining car.

 

[20th Century Rider]

The dining car scene on these trips was utterly depressing to me -- fetch your own stuff, sit at a bare table, eat out of plastic tub with plastic utensils, little to no interaction with other travelers because everyone sits at their own table. Before June of '18, even the Lake Shore "diner lite" had the atmosphere of a convivial restaurant on wheels; now it's more like a bad school cafeteria. If I'm planning a family vacation after the pandemic ends and Amtrak is still offering this level of service, I'd really rather drive and find my own meals. I can't get past the fact that the Amtrak management has taken something that was one of the most fun parts of long-distance train travel and turned it into a big net negative.

So many of us feel the same way... accommodation / service / food are a part of the travel experience... especially when paying for first class upgraded service. Amtrak has offensively betrayed it's most loyal patrons by simply 'walking away' from the service component while continuing to charge way above and beyond what that service is worth.

"If you want to throw a dance... you gotta pay the band!" Meaning that if Amtrak wants to offer a first class experience, it has to come up with the goods!

 

[user 14106]

While the original cold contemporary meals may have been healthier there was a universal even more negative reaction to a menu with all cold meals. They switched to the current menu because of overwhelming bad customer reaction and feedback. I am sure the change with the omelette breakfast is also due to customer reaction. I think for most people having the hot meals is preferential to all cold options. They probably should have kept one of those cold meals as an option for people who try to eat healthier. But I think for some of us railfans, anything other than bringing back traditional dining to all trains will be inedible - I’m not saying everyone here is in that camp and I do understand why those more conscious about the ingredients in their food have an issue with it but I also think a lot of people go into it with so much anger about the cuts that there’s no way they are going to have anything other than a negative reaction. I’ve always found that if you go into a meal with such a negative attitude towards it chances are you’ll find a way not to like it. I tried to go into it with an open mind and in my opinion it’s not as big of a deal as it’s made out to be on the internet. I’m not saying that these are high quality restaurant quality meals but I’m sorry they are not inedible and I just didn’t find the traditional meals I had two years ago so good that this totally ruins train travel for me to where I want to drive. Having said all that I feel bad for the employees that got cut over it - and I do hope eventually they bring back traditional dining if only just for that reason and getting served at your table is a much better presentation for the high prices of a sleeper. Also the old menu certainly had a bigger variety of choices which is also key. The lack of a sandwich or salad choice particular at lunch remains a big problem with flex dining.

 

[fdaley]

It's not inedible -- at least the couple of flex meals I had were not, although I do find those photos of the beef and polenta rather off-putting. And certainly our reaction to it is made worse by comparing the overall experience with what came before, though I'd say that's partly because the food itself really isn't nearly as good as what came before. (And I agree that the quality of the traditional dining selections had gone down over the past decade.)

So I suppose some new person trying train travel for the first time might think the flex meals were OK if they didn't know how much better the meal service had recently been. But my sense of the market for sleeper travel is that it includes a lot of occasional riders who take a trip every year or two, and all of them would naturally compare this to what came before. How many of them tried this on one of the eastern trains before the pandemic and decided they'd rather skip Amtrak on their next trip?

There's also the issue of eliminating meal service altogether for coach passengers. Certainly on the Lake Shore I shared dining car tables with many coach travelers over the years -- and used the diner myself while riding coach on shorter trips across New York. On a trip from Albany to Rochester or Buffalo, the ability to have a full dinner en route was a big reason for me to take the LSL rather than one of the corridor trains. I don't know what portion of coach travelers opted for the Lake Shore because of the availability of meal service, but my impression on a couple of shorter trips before the pandemic was that coach ridership on the LSL was way down compared with a couple of years earlier. When I saw the train at Albany last February, just before the pandemic, it had only one coach for Boston and two for New York -- the shortest consist I had seen in the past 40 years. (In recent times, it normally had carried two coaches for Boston and three or four for New York.)

 

[user 14106]

To me the biggest remaining issue is lunch if this omlette meal is halfway decent (haven't tried it yet). The traditional dining dinner meals (and I mean recent iteration of it not historic) never really seemed light years different than the flex dining meals other than of course the signature steak and breakfast was obviously far superior before but mainly because of the scrambled eggs - the rest of it (I could be wrong) also seemed to be pre-prepared meals in an industrial kitchen. As a recent example I had the manicotti on flex dining and the manicotti on the auto train. Other than presentation (which the auto train is obviously better coming plated instead of the plastic bowl thing) I didn't find the quality of the food all that much different. I think if they'd go with a convection oven rather than a microwave approach the current meals may come out better. Obviously the side salad is also a joke and wildly inconsistent- I cant imagine it would be a cost buster to improve those a bit. I've had it sometimes where the whole small container is full as it should be and others where there's literally two shreds of lettuce and a tomato. I think a lot of this inconsistency it about poor management and supervision and poor morale than it is about intentional sabotage of trains. If Amtrak's goal with flex dining was to kill trains why are they basically now putting it on Acela?

 

[crescent-zephyr]

But I think for some of us railfans, anything other than bringing back traditional dining to all trains will be inedible - I’m not saying everyone here is in that camp and I do understand why those more conscious about the ingredients in their food have an issue with it but I also think a lot of people go into it with so much anger about the cuts that there’s no way they are going to have anything other than a negative reaction. I’ve always found that if you go into a meal with such a negative attitude towards it chances are you’ll find a way not to like it. I tried to go into it with an open mind and in my opinion it’s not as big of a deal as it’s made out to be on the internet.

I understand where you are coming from, I shared a table with a couple on the empire builder once during the “real China” days and they did nothing but complain about how terrible Amtrak dining cars were. It was a good dining car crew and my food was very good so i felt it was clear they had already made up their mind.

But the flex dining is really bad quality in my opinion. Comparing a premade frozen omelette to omelettes made fresh on the train?

The Amtrak diner was often considered “Denny’s / ihop” quality, and I agree. So what are the flex meals? What real world restaurant can you compare them to?

 

[Sidney]

I understand where you are coming from, I shared a table with a couple on the empire builder once during the “real China” days and they did nothing but complain about how terrible Amtrak dining cars were. It was a good dining car crew and my food was very good so i felt it was clear they had already made up their mind.

But the flex dining is really bad quality in my opinion. Comparing a premade frozen omelette to omelettes made fresh on the train?

The Amtrak diner was often considered “Denny’s / ihop” quality, and I agree. So what are the flex meals? What real world restaurant can you compare them to?

 

[Sidney]

You can't compare what Amtrak serves now to any restaurant. Only comparison is frozen food you can get in a supermarket. Any fast food restaurant is better than what is on Amtrak's flex dining menu.

 

[crescent-zephyr]

You can't compare what Amtrak serves now to any restaurant. Only comparison is frozen food you can get in a supermarket. Any fast food restaurant is better than what is on Amtrak's flex dining menu.

Exactly. And yet we are just going in pre-determined not to like it? I don’t think so.

I love that the new amtrak dining car standard is “it is edible.”

 

[hlcteacher]

My daughters are healthy eaters - and during Michelle's reign as school food czar - they absolutely HATED the changes that were implemented based on her program. Maybe they sounded good on paper - but in practice they were a disaster for those who ate at school.

We don't need food police. We just need an Amtrak that listens to customers.

disagree...it was the preparation that did not work, not the changes; my child learned to eat much healthier and continues to do so to this day; we had good cooks in our district

 

[20th Century Rider]

Reasonable requests from reasonable passengers regarding Amtrak food service! Although I may be expressing my own views, there are probably many others who feel the same way.

1 Reasonably healthy and fresh: without being overly picky; restaurant food does contain additives, extenders, fat, and sodium; but within reasonable guidelines. The food is fresh, high quality [meats, produce], and has taste and texture that make the dining experience to be enjoyable and satisfying.

2 Reasonable variety: upon discontinuation of the full service dining, all trains carried the exact same menu... everywhere and every day... few changes and little variety... all modes of transportation... ships, planes, trains in other countries... have rotating menus and special dishes reflective of holidays.

3 Reasonable food choices relevant to locational traditions: Amtrak used to have this along with a panel of chefs from various regions... and the only reason it was done away with was to cut costs.

4 reasonable quality and quantity: this speaks for itself. Few would expect to have caviar and blinis such as found on Emirates 1st class that costs thousands of dollars... and most would be very satisfied with with similar quality to a good neighborhood restaurant.

5 reasonable respect for the environment: Bring back the china and glassware... rather than throwing all the cheap plastics into land fills. Passengers who enjoy their meal on china will be willing to pay for it... however, they are already paying for expensive throw away plastic and the issue is dishwashing equipment on LD trains.

Here's what's keeping rail customers happy in other countries!

https://www.cntraveler.com/galleries/2015-03-11/the-best-train-food-around-the-world-eurostar-thalys

 

[Barb Stout]

There's also the issue of eliminating meal service altogether for coach passengers. Certainly on the Lake Shore I shared dining car tables with many coach travelers over the years -- and used the diner myself while riding coach on shorter trips across New York. On a trip from Albany to Rochester or Buffalo, the ability to have a full dinner en route was a big reason for me to take the LSL rather than one of the corridor trains. I don't know what portion of coach travelers opted for the Lake Shore because of the availability of meal service, but my impression on a couple of shorter trips before the pandemic was that coach ridership on the LSL was way down compared with a couple of years earlier. When I saw the train at Albany last February, just before the pandemic, it had only one coach for Boston and two for New York -- the shortest consist I had seen in the past 40 years. (In recent times, it normally had carried two coaches for Boston and three or four for New York.)

I feel so strongly that coach passengers should be able to use the dining car when it's back in service. If the sleepers are full and there aren't any slots for coach passengers in the dining car, that's one thing, but to automatically forbid coach passengers from the dining car is really bad both for the passengers and Amtrak revenue, I would think.

 

[Sidney]

Amtrak just posted on Facebook about their flex dining. In a matter of moments twenty negative replies showed up. Does Amtrak have any idea how unpopular flex dining is? Apparently not.

 

[Cal]

There's also the issue of eliminating meal service altogether for coach passengers. Certainly on the Lake Shore I shared dining car tables with many coach travelers over the years -- and used the diner myself while riding coach on shorter trips across New York. On a trip from Albany to Rochester or Buffalo, the ability to have a full dinner en route was a big reason for me to take the LSL rather than one of the corridor trains. I don't know what portion of coach travelers opted for the Lake Shore because of the availability of meal service, but my impression on a couple of shorter trips before the pandemic was that coach ridership on the LSL was way down compared with a couple of years earlier. When I saw the train at Albany last February, just before the pandemic, it had only one coach for Boston and two for New York -- the shortest consist I had seen in the past 40 years. (In recent times, it normally had carried two coaches for Boston and three or four for New York.)

I myself have met a few coach passengers in the diner as well.

 

[Cal]

Amtrak just posted on Facebook about their flex dining. In a matter of moments twenty negative replies showed up. Does Amtrak have any idea how unpopular flex dining is? Apparently not.

Oh I'm sure they do, but do they care? That's another story.

As long as it doesn't start dramatically decreasing revenue/ridership, they won't care.

 

[Cal]

Reasonable requests from reasonable passengers regarding Amtrak food service! Although I may be expressing my own views, there are probably many others who feel the same way.

1 Reasonably healthy and fresh: without being overly picky; restaurant food does contain additives, extenders, fat, and sodium; but within reasonable guidelines. The food is fresh, high quality [meats, produce], and has taste and texture that make the dining experience to be enjoyable and satisfying.

2 Reasonable variety: upon discontinuation of the full service dining, all trains carried the exact same menu... everywhere and every day... few changes and little variety... all modes of transportation... ships, planes, trains in other countries... have rotating menus and special dishes reflective of holidays.

3 Reasonable food choices relevant to locational traditions: Amtrak used to have this along with a panel of chefs from various regions... and the only reason it was done away with was to cut costs.

4 reasonable quality and quantity: this speaks for itself. Few would expect to have caviar and blinis such as found on Emirates 1st class that costs thousands of dollars... and most would be very satisfied with with similar quality to a good neighborhood restaurant.

5 reasonable respect for the environment: Bring back the china and glassware... rather than throwing all the cheap plastics into land fills. Passengers who enjoy their meal on china will be willing to pay for it... however, they are already paying for expensive throw away plastic and the issue is dishwashing equipment on LD trains.

Here's what's keeping rail customers happy in other countries!

https://www.cntraveler.com/galleries/2015-03-11/the-best-train-food-around-the-world-eurostar-thalys

I agree with all your points except for the location. I don't think that is really necessary, just have variety, and food that the majority of people like.

 

[crescent-zephyr]

As a recent example I had the manicotti on flex dining and the manicotti on the auto train. Other than presentation (which the auto train is obviously better coming plated instead of the plastic bowl thing) I didn't find the quality of the food all that much different.

Where your example breaks down is that you had a choice to order food that was cooked on board the train (steak and baked potato for sure, not sure about the Cod or grilled chicken).

Depending on the crew you should have had some choice in side dishes too.

You also had the choice of 4 different desserts.

So it wasn’t “just the presentation.”

 

[user 14106]

Where your example breaks down is that you had a choice to order food that was cooked on board the train (steak and baked potato for sure, not sure about the Cod or grilled chicken).

Depending on the crew you should have had some choice in side dishes too.

You also had the choice of 4 different desserts, possibly 5 if there was a special.

So it wasn’t “just the presentation.”

No you are right. I should say - quality of the entree itself.

 

[crescent-zephyr]

No you are right. I should say - quality of the entree itself.

And I will agree I’ve had vegetarian pasta dishes on Amtrak that were as poor in quality as the flex meals I’ve had. I remember some stuffed pasta shells on the Capitol Limited that were definitely “tv dinner” quality.

The only good pasta dish was the one made with Beechers Cheese and served on the Empire Builder and Starlight as a regional specialty. (Beechers is located in Seattle’s Pike Place.).

 

[20th Century Rider]

Amtrak just posted on Facebook about their flex dining. In a matter of moments twenty negative replies showed up. Does Amtrak have any idea how unpopular flex dining is? Apparently not.

Management is just a robotic machine. A manager on some level told another manager on another level to post something on facebook... so they did. Just like robots are supposed to do.

RE: do they know how much flex dining is detested by their travelers? How can they know if reading traveler comments in not in their job description???

That's how robots work!

But they are really good at taking passenger money and counting it!

 

[Dakota 400]

It should be noted that this promotional video by Amtrak is doctored up to look good... the food looks enhanced and fresh, and of course they show the on alcoholic drink that's included

The only part of the video that I liked was "the first drink is on us" part.

 

[20th Century Rider]

The only part of the video that I liked was "the first drink is on us" part.

Is that because it dulls the taste of what's to come?

 

[Cal]

The only part of the video that I liked was "the first drink is on us" part.

Me, being under 21, like nothing about the video except the Viewliner II!

 

[crescent-zephyr]

The only part of the video that I liked was "the first drink is on us" part.

I was never offered a first drink free.

How is it usually offered or how is one expected to order it?

 

[20th Century Rider]

I was never offered a first drink free.

How is it usually offered or how is one expected to order it?