Amtrak dining and cafe service

[crescent-zephyr]

The consist yes, the crew not so much. Their crew base was in Kamloops, so OBS would work to either extremity (Vancouver or Calgary) then return on the next service. I believe the service manager/cruise director would be the only common staff passengers would see for an entire trip. Since they haven't been operating for some time, who knows how it will work on resumption.

Oh interesting. I always thought the crew stayed with the same group of passengers throughout.

I wonder where the crew base will be for the Mountaineer here in the states.

 

[jis]

I am not sure about the status of ARR on board service staff. The operating crew are certainly 'railroad' employees, subject to FRA, RRB, and RR union rules.
Not even sure if the obs staff even is directly employed by the ARR, or are outsourced.... ARR does operate all year round, with a reduced schedule.

In the winter I think there is ony one round trip per week that has OBS. I am not sure that the mid week Hurricane Turns even have any OBS. The food service staff I believe is employed by the food service contractor.The main point though is, it is not even remotely comparable to any Amtrak service.

Oh interesting. I always thought the crew stayed with the same group of passengers throughout.

I wonder where the crew base will be for the Mountaineer here in the states.

If the same model as for the Canadian service is used, the most suitable site for the crew base would be Glenwood Springs.

 

[zephyr17]

In the winter I think there is ony one round trip per week that has OBS. I am not sure that the mid week Hurricane Turns even have any OBS. The food service staff I believe is employed by the food service contractor.The main point though is, it is not even remotely comparable to any Amtrak service.


If the same model as for the Canadian service is used, the most suitable site for the crew base would be Glenwood Springs.

Possibly Grand Junction like the RGZ was for servicing and commissary although the OBS themselves were Denver based.

Kamloops is Rocky Mountaineer base of operations for everything. Their maintenance base is there north of town, just north of the big CN yard, an impressive sight from Highway 5. I don't think they'll set up anything like that for their Colorado Rockies one off. That is partly because I think it is likely a one season thing. They mainly set it up because their main clientele is American and cannot get over the border this year and they want to generate at least some revenue this year. I don't think they are going to invest in the kind of infrastructure they have in Kamloops for it. If they did, Grand Junction is the logical choice.

My bet is they'll crew it out of Denver.

 

[jiml]

Or what they're doing for the Colorado Rockies trip. Kamloops isn't exactly feasible as a crew base

None of their normal service points will work. IIRC, they discontinued service to Seattle a few years ago, losing their only American "hub" (for lack of a better term).

 

[crescent-zephyr]

If they did, Grand Junction is the logical choice.

It would be amazing if they could restore the old depot there!

 

[railiner]

My bet is they'll base it out of Denver.

I agree. Makes the most sense.

 

[me_little_me]

Amtrak OIG ≠ Amtrak. The report is an Amtrak OIG report, not a report from Amtrak management.

That's why it is such an indictment of Amtrak management. Basically, to me, it is saying that Amtrak does not have the data nor has attempted to gather it, to understand their costs and losses.

But I think that that Amtrak OIG is an independent group of Amtrak employees - which is the way most IG organizations are. I know the military IGs consist of military officers and enlisted.

 

[jiml]

Without straying too far off-topic, from the early documentation on the RM, Kamloops was chosen for one reason - cost. Cheaper land for a yard and maintenance facility and low-cost housing for a seasonal student work force. For those unfamiliar with Canadian real estate, Calgary and stopover locations like Whistler are quite expensive and Vancouver has the highest prices for both land and housing on the continent. I'd be fascinated to learn how they're going to pull off everything from maintenance to staff housing south of the border.

 

[zephyr17]

Not to get too off topic, but Whistler is dead for the Rocky Mountaineer. CN embargoed the former BC Rail line north of Squamish.

I'll be curious how Rocky Mountaineer handles it logistically in Colorado as well, particularly maintenance.

 

[jiml]

Not to get too off topic, but Whistler is dead for the Rocky Mountaineer. CN embargoed the former BC Rail line north of Squamish.

I had completely forgotten about that. I wonder if it has been rescinded, since RM still shows that as an option on their page:

https://www.rockymountaineer.com/train-routes/rainforest-gold-rush
or are they pulling "an Amtrak" and just not updating their schedules?

 

[Trogdor]

That's why it is such an indictment of Amtrak management. Basically, to me, it is saying that Amtrak does not have the data nor has attempted to gather it, to understand their costs and losses.

But I think that that Amtrak OIG is an independent group of Amtrak employees - which is the way most IG organizations are. I know the military IGs consist of military officers and enlisted.

It really depends on who asked for the report. This particular report really seems to have stemmed from a directive by Mica, who did everything in his power to kill Amtrak food service.

Amtrak has done various things over the years to try to reduce food service costs, even if they don't explicitly put out fancy-looking reports saying so. The original purpose of the Cross-Country Cafe (which debuted in 2004 or 2005, many years before this report or even the "eliminate all losses on food service" mandate from Mica et al) was to run a single car replacing both the dining car and sightseer lounge using a style of service that required less staff. Nothing new, nothing earth-shattering.

Also, as best as I can tell, the actual inspector general is hired by the Amtrak board, but Amtrak OIG staff are not Amtrak staff (in fact, it would appear to be a significant conflict of interest for Amtrak OIG staff to be the same as Amtrak staff). Amtrak OIG's website indicates they have their own staff.

 

[jruff001]

I'd be fascinated to learn how they're going to pull off everything from maintenance to staff housing south of the border.

Why would they be responsible for housing the staff?

 

[zephyr17]

I had completely forgotten about that. I wonder if it has been rescinded, since RM still shows that as an option on their page:

https://www.rockymountaineer.com/train-routes/rainforest-gold-rush
or are they pulling "an Amtrak" and just not updating their schedules?

Well, since they aren't running anything now due to internal Canadian travel restrictions, they just don't run that one, too.

Unlike most tour companies, and unlike what they used to do, they aren't listing planned departure dates for their various tours for anything. Who knows if they're actually planning to run it? The Sunset East of the Great White North?

Finally, the line hasn't been out of service that long and they pay CN big bucks for track access so they aren't treated like VIA. Maybe they're arranging special inspections with CN so they can move on the line. Although rock slides were so common in the Canyon north of Lilloet that BCR always ran a track speeder ahead of their RDC to make sure the line there was okay.

 

[jiml]

Why would they be responsible for housing the staff?

It's a temporary service with temporary staff. Whether they bring staff from Canada (unlikely due to labor rules) or hire locally, at some point people will be away from home making fairly low wages. This is a rail company without sleepers or dorm cars, so they can't stay on the train. Having to shell out a day's wages for a hotel room in Denver, Glenwood or Moab without some sort of provision or subsidy might make hiring difficult.

 

[jruff001]

It's a temporary service with temporary staff. Whether they bring staff from Canada (unlikely due to labor rules) or hire locally, at some point people will be away from home making fairly low wages. This is a rail company without sleepers or dorm cars, so they can't stay on the train. Having to shell out a day's wages for a hotel room in Denver, Glenwood or Moab without some sort of provision or subsidy might make hiring difficult.

If they hire locally, why would local employees have to pay for a hotel room? They would go home at the end of their shifts like everyone else.

Sorry if I am misunderstanding.

 

[zephyr17]

I would have said Denver is a major population center, as opposed to a fairly remote smallish city pretty far into Interior BC, and Denver should have good population of college students up for a seasonal job. However, I just was on their website and saw that they are planning to run it August through November, so that let's the college kids out.

Still, I don't really think you can consider the Kamloops and Denver labor markets equivalent and am dubious about the need to recruit out of town labor with housing there.

I'd expect that the company would pay to put up their staff in a hotel at the "away terminal" be it Glenwood Springs, CO or Jasper, AB

 

[jis]

If they hire locally, why would local employees have to pay for a hotel room? They would go home at the end of their shifts like everyone else.

Sorry if I am misunderstanding.

I think the staff will have one night outstation stay at least if not more for each trip, depending on where their home base is. AFAICT there is no single day turn out and back. Of course my understanding of staff assignment may be wrong since it is based on several assumptions which may or may not be true. Anyway hotel will be required for the outstation nights if there are any.

 

[jiml]

If they hire locally, why would local employees have to pay for a hotel room? They would go home at the end of their shifts like everyone else.

Sorry if I am misunderstanding.

How would they get home to Denver (for example) when the train overnights in Glenwood or Moab? At the very least the company would have to bus them in both directions.

 

[jiml]

I think the staff will have one night outstation stay at least if not more for each trip, depending on where their home base is. AFAICT there is no single day turn out and back. Of course my understanding of staff assignment may be wrong since it is based on several assumptions which may or may not be true. Anyway hotel will be required for the outstation nights if there are any.

Thank you... while I was typing.

 

[jruff001]

I think the staff will have one night outstation stay at least if not more for each trip, depending on where their home base is. AFAICT there is no single day turn out and back. Of course my understanding of staff assignment may be wrong since it is based on several assumptions which may or may not be true. Anyway hotel will be required for the outstation nights if there are any.

OK, gotcha. I was presuming the company would pay for accommodations while they are out on a trip. I thought we were talking about housing when one trip is over until the next one starts.

 

[me_little_me]

I'm glad to see that Amtrak Dining is related to RM's staffing locations. Those facts really help give a good picture of Amtrak's costs and revenue for their diners.

 

[user 14106]

According to this weeks RPA hotline traditional dining should start rolling out by June 23rd. There should be some details available on traditional dining sometime next week.

 

[A.H. Rudd]

For what it’s worth, the cafe attendant on this morning’s NB Saluki told me that traditional dining will be returning to LD trains on July 19.

He worked the Zephyr for a decade, so I assume he knows what he’s talking about.

 

[Sidney]

The website says July 1. Some other posts suggest late June. Now it's July 19th. I'm riding again in September. I really hope it is back by then.

 

[Bob Dylan]

Look for more Postponements as Amtrak struggles with finding enough Staff to return to Daily Trains, and Negotiates Contracts with Suppliers for Better Food for the Diners and Cafes.

I'll be Shocked if what that what they start with is even close to the National Menu and Service we had pre-Pandemic!