Amtrak dining and cafe service

[IndyLions]

I absolutely couldn’t wait to share this with the group. I’ll preface by saying I fly a lot and take the train whenever I can. I fly first class frequently depending on cost. This was a first class trip. I got to the airport and knew my flight was delayed from the app (as I would on Amtrak) I was flying two roughly equal two hour plus segments with a layover. The total trip time was about seven hours. Yes, the seats were comfortable, pretty comparable to Amtrak coach. My food offering on the first leg were a bag of cheeseballs. I arrived late in the evening at the hub, and everything was closed. On my second flight, I was treated to a tiny bag of nuts. Arriving at my home airport, I had an hour and a half drive home. The nearest Amtrak station is a half hour from my house, but the train runs three days per week. I stopped at Subway on the way home. The point of the story is that Amtrak food service is pretty darn good. I would have gladly taken the cafe car menu over what first class on the plane is. Unless you’re traveling overseas or a very long domestic flight, you will get almost nothing to eat in first class on the plane. Amtrak is very competitive and has a superior product if there were just more trains.

With a few exceptions - this matches my experience as well. Supposedly, some of the airlines are really "upping their game" in domestic first class. I haven't seen it. Traditional dining is WAY better than anything I've had recently on a domestic airline. I'm not a fan of Flex - but it falls short vs most domestic airlines primarily in presentation.

 

[fillyjonk]

Well, the service issues are unfortunate, but also very typical of Amtrak. It really doesn't matter what price you pay for just about anything, fares, meals, Amtrak OBS is going to be highly variable and often slipshod.

I agree with you about the pricing, that they should have individual item pricing for coach passengers like they did before the Flex fiasco. My theory is with the reintroduction of Traditional dining for sleeper passengers only is they changed their diner bookkeeping. One thing I noticed is I no longer had to sign the order slip on any train since the reintroduction. I didn't see formal order slips, the attendants just noted orders on a simple notepad. It kind of looked like they weren't tracking revenue/inventory against individual entrée orders, maybe simply tracking the number of meals against the number of passengers on the sleeper manifest and calling it good as long as the meal count was at or under the passenger count. It would be hard to layer on individual prices per item on such a simplified system, you'd have to go back to the old one. As it stands, you just add the cash meal count from the coaches to the sleeper passenger count and you're good.

I do not agree with it, but it certainly would appear to be easiest way to reinstate coach access with the least disruption.

However, I've found the desserts to be consistently pretty good, not mediocre, even in the worst of times. Even the brownies/butter cakes under Flex were good.

the brownies/butter cakes are often the best part of Flex (as an eastern-leg TE rider, I expect to be eating Flex forever on the train)

 

[allanorn]

With a few exceptions - this matches my experience as well. Supposedly, some of the airlines are really "upping their game" in domestic first class. I haven't seen it. Traditional dining is WAY better than anything I've had recently on a domestic airline. I'm not a fan of Flex - but it falls short vs most domestic airlines primarily in presentation.

I imagine most of the airline food upgrades are for the premium domestic transcon flights where the money is: NYC-LAX/SFO, first class to Hawaii, and the like. Most two-hour flights might see a bump up in quality but it's likely a snack basket.

Agree that traditional dining is better than most any airline food available, but that's also because your taste buds act differently.

 

[jis]

I imagine most of the airline food upgrades are for the premium domestic transcon flights where the money is: NYC-LAX/SFO, first class to Hawaii, and the like. Most two-hour flights might see a bump up in quality but it's likely a snack basket.

Agree that traditional dining is better than most any airline food available, but that's also because your taste buds act differently.

Nope. Pretty decent meals are served on non-premium flights in First Class with a hot entry choice at least between Orlando and New York oc a couple of airlines. There are cold choices too. And on some flights you can pre-select your choice.

I would expect food service on trains to be better than on planes since trains do not suffer from the space and weight restrictions, or at least a well designed train should not. Of course when they forget to include Linen Closets and adequate storage space, all bets are off. That is when Dining Room tables get taken out of service to pile supplies onto.

 

[Palmland]

Of course when they forget to include Linen Closets and adequate storage space, all bets are off. That is when Dining Room tables get taken out of service to pile supplies onto.

It is amazing that Amtrak has such a hard time managing dining car supplies. I would hope cardboard trash cans would disappear with the return of cloth table cloths/napkins, china, and stainless utensils. I don’t remember the storage of those items being a problem on heritage diners. Apparently Amtrak doesn’t learn from history in designing cars.

 

[allanorn]

Nope. Pretty decent meals are served on non-premium flights in First Class with a hot entry choice at least between Orlando and New York oc a couple of airlines. There are cold choices too. And on some flights you can pre-select your choice.

NYC to the land of the Mouse might be considered premium as well (and competitive). Your average 2-3 hour mid-con generally isn't.

 

[jis]

NYC to the land of the Mouse might be considered premium as well (and competitive). Your average 2-3 hour mid-con generally isn't.

Orlando is not premium. It is relatively low yield leisure.

 

[jis]

The F&B Working Group has sent its findings to the Congress

https://www.railpassengers.org/happ...year-long-analysis-of-amtrak-onboard-service/
Here is a PDF document summarizing the findings:

https://www.railpassengers.org/site/assets/files/31312/fbwg_one-pager.pdf

 

[Steve4031]

This is encouraging IMHO. It provides a coherent pathway to move from present practices to more proactive practices. If Amtrak can rapidly move to provide traditional dining on all overnight trains that would solve many of the issues caused by flex dining.

 

[zephyr17]

The F&B Working Group has sent its findings to the Congress

https://www.railpassengers.org/happ...year-long-analysis-of-amtrak-onboard-service/
Here is a PDF document summarizing the findings:

https://www.railpassengers.org/site/assets/files/31312/fbwg_one-pager.pdf

I'd like to see the actual report. This words of one syllable summary can be read as empty, corporate buzz word "happy talk" which I've seen plenty of over my career. I'd like to see something meatier to back up the nice words.

 

[west point]

IMO the dining will not return until the LD trains get back to proper number ( 300 - 500 seats ) of revenue cars in the consists

 

[joelkfla]

What is (was) "Just For You program"?

 

[danasgoodstuff]

IMO the dining will not return until the LD trains get back to proper number ( 300 - 500 seats ) of revenue cars in the consists

Dining has returned to some LD and will to the others.

 

[alpha3]

am sick of excuses for running out of items. In this computer age, it is easy to track demand for items in both the Cafe and Dining Cars and to adjust inventory accordingly. Many years ago, the head chef of the S.S. France could, calculate based upon past experience, just how many items of whatever would be ordered. History tells us that the waste was under one percent.

I have to agree with you, because this was actually my job for a while at my airline, circa early 90's. I was responsible for ordering meals for our station, for the flights that served them. Previous employee to do this had a tough time, lots of waste, and the station manager moved me to the slot after I told him I could bring the numbers down. And I did. We didn't have the amount of computer data that companies have nowadays, but still I used historical flight data and got the job done.

And BTW, I don't think it would be too difficult to set up & manage mid-route restock stores at 4 or 5 staffed stations, to restock some (not all) cafe car items on all of the 2-day trains.

Exactly this. It's not hard to do, and this is partly what helped me bring down our waste percentage so much. I convinced our manager to get with the caterers for our station and establish a 'restock room' in our gate area so at final boarding we could quickly get a final headcount and upload any meals necessary. It didn't add much to the catering cost and my final waste percentage was under 5%. As you say, Amtrak could have mid-route restock areas and eliminate these problems.

 

[zephyr17]

As you say, Amtrak could have mid-route restock areas and eliminate these problems.

The railroads had en route commisaries back in the day. IIRC, Santa Fe (or should I say Fred Harvey ) had ones at at least Kansas City, La Junta and Albuquerque right to the end, even past it since initially all aspects of service were still operated by Santa Fe with Amtrak’s only role then was to cut checks.

 

[eackly]

I imagine most of the airline food upgrades are for the premium domestic transcon flights where the money is: NYC-LAX/SFO, first class to Hawaii, and the like. Most two-hour flights might see a bump up in quality but it's likely a snack basket.

Agree that traditional dining is better than most any airline food available, but that's also because your taste buds act differently.

I fly a fair amount in First Class and it really depends on the airline.

DL really stepped up it's First Class catering network wide(with a few exception, if you are curious, you can Google, DELTA Sad Box) starting late last year, it really started to slip pre-pandemic and it only got worse during the pandemic.

AA also recently stepped up its catering network wide and serves pretty decent food in First Class now a days.

UA also started to slip pre-pandemic and really hasn't improved as much as AA and DL have.

Their domestic First Class food is the worst of the big three and there International Business Class (Polaris) catering (which is generally the best any airline will offer), is also the worst of the big three currently.

AMTRAK impressed my wife and I by getting the temperature of our steaks perfectly, something land based restaurants have struggled with.

 

[AFriendly]

The worst thing about airline food is the inconsistency. I've had buy-on-board meals that ranged from edible to dumpster-ready. Business class and transoceanic meals have never been, to their credit, that bad, but there's still much too wide a variance in the offerings especially considering that airfare runs into the thousands on those trips. With Amtrak you know what to expect, and that's a good thing. I think the best way to capitalize on this strength would be to strive for more consistency. Consistency is always having certain, if not all, items on the cafe car menu available for purchase. Consistency is maintaining standards for preparation and presentation of items system-wide. Consistency is controlling menu prices rather than just charging "whatever they'll pay."

 

[Amtrakfflyer]

What is (was) "Just For You program"?

Blue plate special for coach passengers served to go from the diner. Special of the day (usually chicken), potato and veggie, cookie, bottle of water. $12 ish dollars at the time, someone can correct me if I’m wrong but went away around the Anderson regime 5-6 year ago?

 

[Bob Dylan]

Blue plate special for coach passengers served to go from the diner. Special of the day (usually chicken), potato and veggie, cookie, bottle of water. $12 ish dollars at the time someone can correct me if I’m wrong but went away around the Anderson regime 5-6 year ago?

I had it on the Sunset Ltd and it was Delicious and they Sold Out!!

 

[NYP2NFL01]

I have made four (4) round trips on Amtrak between 9/2021 and 5/2023 in a sleeper. In all these trips I have yet to have a SCA who provides coffee at the coffee station. I've seen other SCAs set up their coffee stations on the same train. But for some reason, my SCA never does. That includes both the good SCAs and the bad ones. Have any of you had similar experiences? I'm beginning to take this personally!

 

[Mystic River Dragon]

Yes, once or twice. I just slipped into the other sleeper and got their coffee.

(This is not as selfish as it sounds, I hope—I need coffee immediately in the morning, before a lot of noise or light, or I get a terrible headache. I also bring some dark chocolate for the caffeine as a backup if there really is no coffee anywhere to be seen.)

 

[Mystic River Dragon]

I notice the Acela First Class menu still says “fall/winter 2022.”

Has Amtrak quietly gotten rid of whatever department developed new menu items for it?

If so, the sensible thing to do would be to reprint the menu after removing the date and simply make it the official permanent menu.

 

[joelkfla]

I notice the Acela First Class menu still says “fall/winter 2022.”

Has Amtrak quietly gotten rid of whatever department developed new menu items for it?

If so, the sensible thing to do would be to reprint the menu after removing the date and simply make it the official permanent menu.

Well, if the restoration of traditional dining to the Silver Meteor at the end of June is "late spring", maybe May is still "winter".

(Yes, I'm still carrying that grudge.)

 

[AmtrakFlyer]

Are Acela first meals better than Flexible dining for those who are familiar with both? I keep thinking that’s a workable solution to the non traditional dining trains in all aspects quality, labor, etc. But here it is 4-5 years later and it doesn’t seem like it was ever thought of as a solution. It’s been talked about on here but honestly what are the advantages and disadvantages of such a move?

 

[zephyr17]

I only had an Acela First dinner one time and thought it was reasonably good, though not as good as traditional.

Both are provided by the same vendor. I think the problem with Flex may be the inconsistency in the final prep process. Probably Acela First's prep/reheat is more consistent and better.

I do think presentation makes a difference, too. What appears to be slop in a black plastic bowl is not an appealing presentation.