Why is this even a thread? Who said anything about passengers being required to wear certain footwear?
No the issue with the new rules to me is they are fairly unenforceable. Here are a few cases.
1. Open Toed Shoes. The doors to PVs are generally locked and for the most part we never see an Amtrak Employee. So without Amtrak installing cameras in our cars which would probably result in a major uproar. So this is an incredibly hard rule to enforce. Me personally I wear my steel toe boots everywhere so it doesn’t really effect me personally. And personally as long as my passengers stay in the car body and don’t enter the vestibule I probably wouldn’t enforce it. Especially when you see the footwear regular Amtrak passengers wear.
That's quite easy to enforce particularly as owners traverse the yards, shops and even at station stops. And again, it is for the owners, who were known to say that Amtrak's instructions don't apply to them as they wander through the yards. Well, now it is addressed.
2. The new vestibule/platform rules. Again I believe this is a fairly hard rule to enforce. Now car owners/passengers are not allowed to avail ourself a to the amenities of Dutch door riding and open platform riding. My theory on this is a bit more enforceable but not really by Amtrak crews but by railfans photos. The engineer should be looking forward and focused on running. The conductors for the most part are busy dealing with passengers or sitting in the cafe car. So they generally aren’t looking back. And I’ve been told by several conductors I know since this rule they aren’t bothering with it because they have more pressing issues with their passengers. Then look at the majority of our country. It’s incredibly rural and remote. For instance I could ride a platform in say the New River Gorge and no one would really know if I did or if I didn’t because it’s remote.
Since you're probably not qualified on various operating rules, a great deal of operating rule books provide for crews to position themselves to check their trains when practical, especially on curves...and although the old diesel fleet has limited vision side view mirrors, the Siemens' fleet has cameras that allow for just that. There are also station cameras that see the trains go by.
Additionally, Crescent Zephyr hit the nail on the head. There are plenty of other trains out there that will report open doors, people on the observation platforms..because they already do. Now that there are enforceable guidelines, which were lacking before, you can have consistency.
Of course what about the section of the Maple Leaf north of Niagara Falls? Technically it’s Amtrak equipment and in the timetable. But it’s a VIA train. So who’s rules?
Next the rule only specifies Dutch doors, and open platforms. So does that mean baggage doors, service doors, and diner doors are free range? Of course it doesn’t but it wasn’t technically specified so one could technically fight any punishment if you did that because it didn’t explicitly call those out. Of course none of us are going to do that because we have too much to lose over proving how poorly written something is.
From the requirements:
Private Car Owners with their cars operating on Amtrak trains are responsible for making passengers and guests aware of the safety standards, and of the necessity that such standards are to be strictly observed. These standards shall include, but not be limited to, a clear understanding of the specific areas or portions of the car or cars, where, under no circumstances, passengers and guest are permitted to go, such as under or between cars, on observation decks, platforms, and vestibules where riding has been banned by the host railroad.
It is not permissible at any time for Private Car Owners and their guest to be on the Observation Deck or operate with an open Dutch Door on any Private Car attached to an Amtrak Revenue Train or Amtrak Charter Train while the train is in motion. This applies to any train on the Amtrak system. For all other times of non-movement, on the Observation Deck or at an open Dutch Door, there is to be no liquids, all owners and guests must wear protective eye wear, there must be enough hand holds and railings for all occupants, and there can be no leaning beyond the sides and rear planes of any Private Rail car at any time.
Failure to adhere to this safety rule could result in the private car owner being suspended or revoked from operation on any Amtrak Train.
Seems to be if you're governed by the Amtrak timetable (which does include the portion in Canada) and you are attached to an Amtrak train, you're governed by this provision.
As for spelling out dutch doors, that was because the private cars would say things like "the door IS closed,...just the top is open." Since there are already provisions for doors being closed on regular trains, this should help to eliminate the confusion over dutch doors.
I would like to post verbatim my favorite rule of these. But I’m in Canada now with limited WiFi so I’ll do that at another time.
I can't wait to read it . Is it the three point contact portion?
Yes....that's totally enforceable or the portion that tells you how to evacuate your own car..that they're not qualified on???!
Moral of the story the rules that some insurance person who probably isn’t familiar with operations has come up with are fairly unenforceable. The only way you can actually enforce them is to install cameras in every vestibule and platform we have to see we aren’t doing it. Or pay someone to watch railfan YouTube videos all day long looking for rule violations.
I'm disappointed in you. You've been around long enough to know this wasn't written by an insurance agent. It was written in legalese!!! Now, if anything goes wrong, "they violated rule........"
Will I enforce the vestibule yes. But as long as my passengers stay in the car and not the vestibule or between cars I will not enforce the footwear rule. Like I said I have too much to lose. With these rules in place I will not be doing a PC1/2 inspection on the Columbia Heights it just isn’t worth the investment.
Good idea. They'll say you weren't using three points of contact as you slide down the embankment. Then, they'll charge you.
And of course I didn’t learn about the new regulations from Amtrak. I learned about it from Facebook so it was a really professional roll out.
Personally I will be lobbying with congress to get some of these rules removed.
Well, it IS clearly on the site under private car safety. It was up as soon as it became valid.
I don't see why Amtrak should care what people are wearing when riding in a private car (or even if they choose to be on the open platform) unless Amtrak is using this to further harass private car owners and discourage patronage (Wait, maybe I have answered my own question!)
Who said Amtrak cares what the passengers wear? No one except the OP. If they choose to be on the open platform, it can become an issue particularly since a few owners decided it was a good idea to have them out there at 110mph and in on particular instance, attempted to look up the side of the train...with a 135mph train operating against it in the opposite direction. I suppose if a person has a death wish, we shouldn't say much but since the owner stated their is no rule against it and we do this all time, there are now guidelines to provide consistency.....which is just what the Inspector General stated should happen.
I don't believe that airlines have much in the way of footwear requirements for passengers except that they wear some type of footwear. I have watched enough TV shows to know that a person travelling on a airplane should wear leather shoes and not sandals or shoes made of a synthetic material. I assume the same recommendation would go for trains but people wear what they want at their own risk. Any footwear rule for regular Amtrak passengers, except for a requirement to wear some footwear, would be difficult to enforce unless Amtrak wishes to drive away customers (Wait again, maybe I have answered my own question.)
Aaaand again, no one mentioned there is a requirement for passengers..except the OP and he merely inquired. This is for the owners who are now being held up to the operating standards of the crews as they traverse the territory and the yards.
