Amtrak Guest Rewards 2.0 Coming January 2016

[Bob Dylan]

The elimination of 750 and 500 Point Minimums for City Pair rides on Acela are a Straw Man that in no way compare with the elimination of the 100 Point Minimums. Most Acela Fares are such High Buckets that you get More Points than the Minimums!

Someone please tell me why passengers paying $2000-$3000 for a Sleeping Car ticket don't deserve Bonus Points when

a $200-$400 Fare on Acela FC and BC does?( Not to mention that there are No Acelas or Biz Class Trains where so many members live, just infrequent LD Trains that offer Poor Service, shoddy equipment and OTP @ ever increasing prices!)

And still no answer as to why the 10% point Penalty for Cancellations of AGR Award trips, or MODIFICATIONS!!!!? more than 14 days out, or the draconian 20% Penalty if less than 14 days out that no-one else faces!!!! Except that Select Exec are exempt!! Why??

This question has been asked on several forums, by several members, and the Silence from AGR is total!

They must either be ashamed of this Bone headed policy, or else its a military secret as another AU member referenced!

Could we please have an answer along with full disclosure of all the changes, its Sept. 20th for goodness sake??,

Congress moves faster than this and they don't do anything except produce smoke and mirrors and issue Press Releases full of BS bragging about how wonderful they are and how every body will be so much better off!!!!!

Sound familiar??

 

[oregon pioneer]

And still no answer as to why the 10% point Penalty for Cancellations of AGR Award trips, or MODIFICATIONS!!!!? more than 14 days out, or the 20% Penalty if less than 14 days!!!! Except that Select Exec are exempt!! Why??

This question has been asked on several forums, by several members, and the Silence from AGR is total!

Yes, that one has me totally puzzled and hurt. I don't understand it, especially because there is no such penalty when paying cash. It makes it difficult to book early with confidence, even though I usually do book early and rarely modify reservations. Good thing I have no trips panned after the changes take effect, at least till late fall/early winter '16. Maybe, just maybe, they will rethink that one policy by then. It is so punitive.

 

[Bex]

Someone please tell me why passengers paying $2000-$3000 for a Sleeping Car ticket don't deserve Bonus Points when

a $200-$400 Fare on Acela FC and BC does?( Not to mention that there are No Acelas or Biz Class Trains where so many members live, just infrequent LD Trains that offer Poor Service, shoddy equipment and OTP @ ever increasing prices!)

Because one makes Amtrak money and one doesn't? Just a guess.

 

[Bob Dylan]

Someone please tell me why passengers paying $2000-$3000 for a Sleeping Car ticket don't deserve Bonus Points when

a $200-$400 Fare on Acela FC and BC does?( Not to mention that there are No Acelas or Biz Class Trains where so many members live, just infrequent LD Trains that offer Poor Service, shoddy equipment and OTP @ ever increasing prices!)

Because one makes Amtrak money and one doesn't? Just a guess.

I think what you really mean to say is that Both bring in Revenue for Amtrak, but Amtrak has Never Made Money and Never Will!!!

Acela revenue above the Rails certainly helps Amtrak's Cash flow, but if all of the expenses for the NEC were included, Acela would still Lose Millions of Dollars as do the LD Trains, and all other Passenger Rail in this Country!

Thanks for your thoughts and reply, I'm still waiting on AGR to answer the questions and stop hiding behind press releases full of marketing speak!

 

[Bex]

No, what I meant was what I said. NEC passengers bring in money, LD passengers lose money. However you feel about that or what Amtrak could do to change it, there it is, and it could be the answer to your question. I have no idea, really, that's why it was a guess. But thanks for the assumptions and insults.

BTW, the new system does NOT help me, it hurts me because the ticket I currently most often use points for will now cost more of them than it did before. I will earn no more than I did. Not to mention that I rewarded myself with LD trips that will no longer be possible, or at least not in the same way. But what I can see is the big picture, that whatever was done here was to maximize profits for Amtrak, a goal with which I can't disagree, honestly.

 

[abcnews]

And still no answer as to why the 10% point Penalty for Cancellations of AGR Award trips, or MODIFICATIONS!!!!? more than 14 days out, or the draconian 20% Penalty if less than 14 days out that no-one else faces!!!! Except that Select Exec are exempt!! Why??

The airline penalties are much worse for any modification made to a free ticket. The exception is Southwest.

US Air was a flat $300 fee for each ticket. That's $600 if two are traveling. $900 for three...

I think 10% is fair. Naturally, I would rather there be no charge for AGR modifications, but at the same time - I would think 10% is reasonable.

 

[Bob Dylan]

Good point about the draconian airline fees ABC news, but do we want Amtrak to continue to follow the airline model when it comes to nickel and diming customers and to Loyalty Programs?

Do you feel the 20% penalty is justified when cash customers and Select Exec members don't have this Penalty?

 

[abcnews]

Actually, I think the rule is absolutely no 100% refund, if you cancel a (cash) sleeper reservation with less than 14 days. Only a one year voucher valid only on Amtrak - so it's not like you get a full refund if you cancel with less than 14 days notice on a cash/credit card ticket (non AGR).

And I do think Select Exec members earn the privilege to be able to make modifications to AGR reservations, since they are not casual, or occasional travelers, but the very best of the best Amtrak customers. They pay the bills.

If you owned an a restaurant or a hotel, or even a beach house, - would you be more likely to be lenient to your very best customer - versus someone you hardly know? Special treatment?

 

[Bob Dylan]

I'd treat All of my customers like Kings and Queens!

That was Walt Disney and Sam Walton's Motto, and they were quite successful at taking care of everyone who spent money @ their business!

I'm not opposed to giving those that spend more extra perks and benefits, but no customers should be penalized for things that happen that are beyond their control!

I would also point out that with 3-5 Long Distance trips a Year on Amtrak, one could spend MORE than a Select Executive Member that spends $10,000 a year on Acela trips!

These are Very Good Customers also, and I know people that don't live on the NEC, and have met many on LD Trains that actually do this! Don't they deserve extra perks too?

 

[jebr]

Someone please tell me why passengers paying $2000-$3000 for a Sleeping Car ticket don't deserve Bonus Points when

a $200-$400 Fare on Acela FC and BC does?( Not to mention that there are No Acelas or Biz Class Trains where so many members live, just infrequent LD Trains that offer Poor Service, shoddy equipment and OTP @ ever increasing prices!)

I guess how one defines "deserves" is the crux of that question, and one where we would certainly disagree (and certainly can rightfully disagree.)

To answer the related question of why is Amtrak offering the bonus on premium seats on the corridors but not on premium accommodations on the long distance trains, I'm pretty sure that it's due to the lack of direct competition for long distance sleepers. A bonus on points for sleepers is unlikely to create much additional business for Amtrak, nor is a lack of such bonus likely to cause a mass exodus on sleeper accommodations. Someone who is taking a sleeper long-distance may defect to the airlines, but I really doubt a bonus on points would keep them on the train (or attract them to the train.) On the other hand, the travel time on the corridor is short enough and reliable/frequent enough where a person may be debating between driving, taking the plane, or taking Amtrak. Especially for business travelers, a bonus may help to drive that business to Amtrak over, say, the airlines.

 

[Bob Dylan]

Thank you jeb, excellent answer!

But AGR should just explain stuff like this instead of keeping things secret and releasing press releases full of Marketspeak BS! Put Lipstick on a pig, you still have a pig!

Evidently the AGR Team has been muzzled by the Suits that are letting the Bean Counters and Marketing Weasels dream up more nickel and dime cuts to LD Trains, and are busy making promises they can't keep to the mica-managers on the Hill!

What they are doing is driving many of us away from the LD Trains and towards the Airlines and Buses, since all we have are LD Trains that are over priced, and in rapid decline as to service, amenities,OTP and equipment! ( you know you're not on the right track when train fans like CHamilton, Anderson and many others feel the same way.)

 

[Ryan]

I'm on my phone in an airport, and haven't had the ability to sit down and compose a long reply answering specific points. Perhaps when I get to the third hotel in 4 days this evening, I'll have a chance.

But until then, I would like to refute the notion that AGR owes us any explanation of their rationale behind the rule changes. It's quite literally not our business.

Jim, you also mentioned upthread (or in another) that they rolled this out without talking to any passengers. Do you actually know this for a fact, are you just assuming that based on speculation and the fact that you weren't one of the passengers asked?

 

[Ryan]

I had wanted to look these number up as well, this is the September monthly report, giving us the numbers for all of FY 14.

Looking at where the ridership and revenue is (most definitely not in the LD service, of which sleeping car passengers are an even smaller subset), it is no surprise to me where AGR's focus is.

 

[tricia]

ImageUploadedByAmtrak Forum1442833516.975344.jpg

I had wanted to look these number up as well, this is the September monthly report, giving us the numbers for all of FY 14.

Looking at where the ridership and revenue is (most definitely not in the LD service, of which sleeping car passengers are an even smaller subset), it is no surprise to me where AGR's focus is.

Still, Amtrak is at least putatively a NATIONAL rail system. The NEC has a rich set of routes and departure times, the rest of the country skeletal. Anything that further advantages NEC travel vs travel in the rest of the network sucks more and more life out of the rest of the system. Given the fixed costs of running even the skeletal LD system, you'd think that Amtrak would want to attract MORE riders there.

Thanks to all who've raised other aspects of the AGR program's changes that disadvantage LD travel for potential riders in much of the country--I'd mainly had in mind the loss of the zone system, which adds a vast cost increase (in points) to the existing roundabout inconvenience of train routes from where many of us live to just about anywwhere else. (I'm in the southeast; others have noted that Texas and other parts of the country have similar connectivity problems.)

 

[jis]

I must point out that Jim is not correct in his contention that most Acela tickets are such high bucket that twice their dollar value is higher than the 500/750 minimum. Yes there are certain high bucket prices that fall into that category but most tickets on a given train are not sold in that high bucket. Most are sold at much lower buckets where the 500/750 minimum is still very relevant.

For example, I just purchased an Acela ticket BOS - NWK three days out at $113. For Jim's contention to be correct most tickets on that itinerary should cost more than $250. That just is not the case.

Prices in NEC South are higher, but even there the First Class Acela ticket that I bought MET - WAS was nowhere near $375 let alone be over it.

 

[Bob Dylan]

Thanks to everyone who pointed out the errors in my posts about the Fares on Acela FC and the dising of LD Riders when it comes to Bonus Points,lack of opportunities for using Amtrak in most of the country ( which is not Amtraks fault), the devaluation of of the point value and the cancellation and modification point penalties which really sucks.

Also thanks to those who agree with my Points as they are also affected by this unfair and less than well thought out revision to the best loyalty travel program. ( more people than you might think)

We'll just have to agree to disagree on this and realize that a large portion of us will not be riding Amtrak as often or as far as in the past since Amtrak is pricing us out by offering less for more than it's worth.

Those of us that love to travel often will now have to go back to giving our travel money to the airlines, buses and the oil companies!

That's a Damn shame, but could be easily corrected by AGR with hardly any or no cost to Amtrak, but as John F. Kennedy said: "..Life is unfair.."

Ryan: I was told by someone that should know, that the frequent riders, including Select, Select+ and SE members, were NOT consulted at all, this was all done in house by Bean Counters and Marketing weasels.

But to be fair, without Anthony and his Boss, it would have been alot worse as some of the original ideas were even more punitive than the worst of the airline programs.

 

[Ryan]

realize that a large portion of us will not be riding Amtrak as often or as far as in the past since Amtrak is pricing us out by offering less for more than it's worth.

I'm sure that will be the case. I'm also quite sure that Amtrak won't notice that a minority of a minority of a minority of their passengers will go elsewhere.

Still, Amtrak is at least putatively a NATIONAL rail system.

As is AGR, still.

 

[tonys96]

I believe a more correct statement would be that Amtrak is a reasonably extensive system in the NEC, and a decent system along the East Coast, and also a skeletal system most every where else.

 

[BCL]

I believe a more correct statement would be that Amtrak is a reasonably extensive system in the NEC, and a decent system along the East Coast, and also a skeletal system most every where else.

There are also the corridors, although they're generally run by local authorities with Amtrak providing operating employees, and affiliated brand, and interconnection with a bigger rail system. However, these routes are often the best to achieve those 100-point minimum segments because of the frequency of operation of what are essentially commuter trains.

 

[zephyr17]

NEC=Nothing Else Counts

 

[Devil's Advocate]

If the LD network is where Amtrak is struggling to fill trains then why isn't AGR being leveraged as an incentive to fill those trains? Perhaps the feeble LD network is seen as impossible to fix. Or simply not worth the effort. I find it odd to think the LD network will be stronger with fewer AGR incentives.

 

[Ryan]

I'm pretty sure they're not struggling to fill trains.

 

[tonys96]

I'm pretty sure they're not struggling to fill trains.

Ok. If you say so.

 

[jis]

The primary thing that they need to do is to raise RASM while holding down CASM. AGR is but one means to achieve that. I am not sure exactly how the cost and benefit of AGR is computed in the context of the bigger picture. How much additional net revenue AGR brings from the LD network is one that at least I don't know the answer to. I hope someone in Amtrak knows and is using to drive the various decisions.

From what I recall AGR has always been somewhat of a stepchild in the Amtrak big picture and we actually owe some to few people we know and whom some have castigated here, for keeping AGR alive by making the business case for it repeatedly over the years.

Programs like AGR are not unconditional entitlements in general. The possibility of unconditional and complete discontinuation are usually included in the conditions of participation and have generally held up in courts. Typically reasons for changes are provided in carefully crafted marketing language. Some are better at sugar coating the pill than others. I suppose they will answer only those questions that they think are critical to answer for their marketing goals, and will not answer the rest. This is how the airlines behaved during major transitions. As usual there was a big hue and cry from specially those that felt they had a special relationship. Cases flew around for a while, and then things settled down with almost no change in the fundamentals of the change. I have no reason to believe it will be any different in this case.

 

[jis]

I believe a more correct statement would be that Amtrak is a reasonably extensive system in the NEC, and a decent system along the East Coast, and also a skeletal system most every where else.

There are also the corridors, although they're generally run by local authorities with Amtrak providing operating employees, and affiliated brand, and interconnection with a bigger rail system. However, these routes are often the best to achieve those 100-point minimum segments because of the frequency of operation of what are essentially commuter trains.

There has been mention of corridor specific incentives specially from California. Maybe they will play a role in instituting such, and that may include minimum points specifically for corridor segments. Just speculating.