Amtrak has the worst departure times in STL

[Crowbar_k]

Whoever decided this needs to be fired. Who wants to catch a train at 4:30 in the morning? The prepandemic departure times were already pretty bad, but the 6:40 and 3:00 departures were usable. Why cant the be a departure between 8:00 - 10:00 am like Chicago? I know that trains had to be cut for the pandemic, but they should have kept the 6:40 departure and cut the 4:30.

 

[railiner]

Whoever decided this needs to be fired. Who wants to catch a train at 4:30 in the morning? The prepandemic departure times were already pretty bad, but the 6:40 and 3:00 departures were usable. Why cant the be a departure between 8:00 - 10:00 am like Chicago? I know that trains had to be cut for the pandemic, but they should have kept the 6:40 departure and cut the 4:30.

Not sure, but I believe the early departure out of St. Louis is to satisfy the Illinois legislators, up the line who pay for the train...

 

[Seaboard92]

I was honestly surprised when I saw that schedule too when I was looking for tickets today. I have the feeling it has to do with what Illinois is paying for but it still isn't great. On days the Eagle is running it at least fills the middle of the day gap.

 

[frequentflyer]

Whoever decided this needs to be fired. Who wants to catch a train at 4:30 in the morning? The prepandemic departure times were already pretty bad, but the 6:40 and 3:00 departures were usable. Why cant the be a departure between 8:00 - 10:00 am like Chicago? I know that trains had to be cut for the pandemic, but they should have kept the 6:40 departure and cut the 4:30.

What's the problem? That train has been leaving in the early morning for decades (used to be called the State House). How else is one going to get to Chicago in the morning leaving St Louis? The TE leaves at a "decent" morning hour and gets to Chicago in the early afternoon.

 

[MARC Rider]

What's the problem? That train has been leaving in the early morning for decades (used to be called the State House). How else is one going to get to Chicago in the morning leaving St Louis? The TE leaves at a "decent" morning hour and gets to Chicago in the early afternoon.

I also imagine that the train gets a lot of business from stations up the line (like Springfield, the state capitol, and Normal, a University town) where the departure times are much more reasonable.

 

[neroden]

People have given the answer before: the train's funded by Illinois and essentially not funded by Missouri, so the times are optimized for Illinois and Missouri gets the result. If Missouri would stop electing right-wing anti-train nuts, and provide more secure funding, this would probably change.

 

[saxman]

I also imagine that the train gets a lot of business from stations up the line (like Springfield, the state capitol, and Normal, a University town) where the departure times are much more reasonable.

This!

You can't just look at one departure time and say someone needs to be fired. The train stops at other stations like Springfield and Normal to get to Chicago for a decent time in the morning. It can also get there to make western LD connections and to make connections to some Michigan trains.

I will say that (in normal times) there should be a middle of the day train and always wondered why there's a huge gap between 8 AM and 3 PM for a STL departure.

 

[River Cities]

It's sure inconvenient to leave before the Metrolink starts running for the day! I've used that 4:30a departure from STL in order to make a connection to get to Niles on time for an event, though, so keeping the earlier time might maintain more potential connections in Chicago.

By contrast the reduced River Runner schedule makes weekend trips to Kansas City a lot less worthwhile. Hopefully both schedule cuts are relatively short-lived!

 

[Willbridge]

At one time that early train was named The State House which was a clue as to who it was intended for. Over the years it has departed STL (a few samples) at 0420, 0430, 0445, and 0500. At one time it didn't run on Sunday mornings.

 

[Crowbar_k]

I was honestly surprised when I saw that schedule too when I was looking for tickets today. I have the feeling it has to do with what Illinois is paying for but it still isn't great. On days the Eagle is running it at least fills the middle of the day gap.

I swore off the Eagle years ago. Last time I rode it, it was brutal. The train was two hours late, is no wifi, no one in my group could find seats together, and on top of that, the trip actually longer that the Lincoln service, despite making less stops. Hopefully some of these problems will be fixed once the 110 mph speed limit is implemented. Personally, I think a way to fix this would be to have the Eagle terminate in STL and have a new Lincoln service connection leave STL between 8:00 and 8:30. That way, people in St. Louis aren't affected by delays that happen earlier down the line.

 

[Crowbar_k]

I also imagine that the train gets a lot of business from stations up the line (like Springfield, the state capitol, and Normal, a University town) where the departure times are much more reasonable.

Sort of. According to this official Amtrak ridership data, STL is the second most used station on the line.

 

[Crowbar_k]

Another thing that I never understood is why is there an express that goes southbound (at least pre-pandemic) but not one that goes northbound?

 

[brianpmcdonnell17]

Sort of. According to this official Amtrak ridership data, STL is the second most used station on the line.View attachment 20113

Where did you get that data? Chicago has more ridership than all the other stations combined, which is impossible. Maybe it's showing annual ridership at Chicago and monthly ridership elsewhere. Aside from Chicago, the relative riderships seem about right.

 

[Crowbar_k]

Where did you get that data? Chicago has more ridership than all the other stations combined, which is impossible. Maybe it's showing annual ridership at Chicago and monthly ridership elsewhere. Aside from Chicago, the relative riderships seem about right.

From here: Illinois Passenger Rail: Information Center - Document Library (illinoisrail.org)

 

[Eric S]

Appears to be total ridership at those stations, rather than just ridership on Lincoln trains. So St. Louis would include Missouri River Runner, Chicago would include everything operating there, etc.

 

[MARC Rider]

There are Lincoln Service specific ridership statistics on the RPA website.

 

[Crowbar_k]

Ok. This is from the RPA website. As you can see, STL and CHI is the top city pair. Alton and CHI is also in 4th, and there is also a noticeable amount going between Joliet and STL. So, three out of the top ten city pairs are going between the St. louis area and the Chicago area.

 

[Crowbar_k]

Here are the top city pairs on the Texas Eagle. I think its pretty telling that the top 3 are stations along the Lincoln service and the number one, is again, Chicago and St. Louis.

 

[20th Century Rider]

Way back in the day STL used to be a large hub for the mid continental routes going N S E and W. today it plays a very second fiddle to CHI... with departures and arrivals all over the place. [Pre Covid] Lincoln service leaving at 4:35am and 6:40am for CHI is too early. Return services leaving CHI at 5:15pm are supposedly for those who are getting off of work and ok with arriving in STL at 10:45pm but the daily leaving CHI at 7pm with arrival at 12:30am is a bit 'over the top.'

But the biggest frustration is delay after delay with the proposed HS service... with no end game in site. And the sections that are completed must still go the slower MPH due to endless 'red tape.'

All this due to over government regulations and funding problems.

 

[Crowbar_k]

Way back in the day STL used to be a large hub for the mid continental routes going N S E and W. today it plays a very second fiddle to CHI... with departures and arrivals all over the place. [Pre Covid] Lincoln service leaving at 4:35am and 6:40am for CHI is too early. Return services leaving CHI at 5:15pm are supposedly for those who are getting off of work and ok with arriving in STL at 10:45pm but the daily leaving CHI at 7pm with arrival at 12:30am is a bit 'over the top.'

But the biggest frustration is delay after delay with the proposed HS service... with no end game in site. And the sections that are completed must still go the slower MPH due to endless 'red tape.'

All this due to over government regulations and funding problems.




View attachment 20150

View attachment 20149

Chicago Has some pretty good departures and are more evenly spread out. STL should just mirror the Chicago departures. Also, why is there an express train that goes southbound but not one that goes northbound?

 

[Seaboard92]

Way back in the day STL used to be a large hub for the mid continental routes going N S E and W. today it plays a very second fiddle to CHI

Here is a fun little post for you. Here is the schedule and departure information for St. Louis in 1952. At One point from St. Louis Union Station you could reach 30 of the 50 states. Now you can only travel directly to 7 of the 50 states.

And for those who don't want to go thru all of that information here are the departures and arrival times for the Chicago-St. Louis corridor. Back in the day you had the choice of three different railroads to reach Chicago, two if you wanted to go to Springfield, and one of the trains ran with multiple dome cars (Wabash's Blue Bird). There were three overnight sleeper trains, and eight daytime trains per day. Now there are 5 Daytime trains per day without Covid.

Gulf, Mobile, & Ohio (Current Amtrak Route) to Chicago Union Station
Departures
-Abraham Lincoln DP 8:58 AM-----AR CUS 2:08 PM
-Alton Limited DP 11:55 AM--------AR CUS 5:15 PM
-Prairie State Express DP 2:45 PM-----AR CUS 9:30 PM
-Ann Rutledge DP 4:45 PM---------AR CUS 9:40 PM
-Midnight Special DP 11:45 PM----AR CUS 7:00 AM

Arrivals
-Chicago-St. Louis Express AR 1:15 AM-----DP CUS 6:55 PM
-Midnight Special AR 7:08 AM----DP CUS 11:25 PM
-Abraham Lincoln AR 10:00 PM-----DP CUS 4:50 PM
-Ann Rutledge AR 1:45 PM--------DP CUS 8:25 AM
-Alton Limited AR 4:55 PM---------DP CUS 11:45 AM
-Prairie State Express AR 11:55 PM DP CUS 5:00 PM

Illinois Central (Via Springfield, Kankakee) to Chicago Central Station
Departures
-Green Diamond DP 9:00 AM------AR CCT 2:30 PM
-Daylight DP 4:45 PM--------------AR CCT 10:15 PM
-Night Diamond DP 11:50 PM-----AR CCT 7:00 AM

Arrivals
-Night Diamond AR 7:15 AM------DP CCT 11:50 PM
-Daylight AR 4:00 PM-------------DP CCT 10:30 AM
-Green Diamond AR 10:15 PM----DP CCT 4:45 PM

Wabash (Via Decatur) to Chicago Dearborn Terminal
Departures
-Blue Bird DP 8:55 AM-------AR CDB 2:05 PM
-Banner Blue DP 12:00 PM--AR CDB 5:40 PM
-Midnight DP 11:30 PM------AR CDB 6:50 AM

Arrivals
-Midnight AR 6:55 AM------DP CDB 11:20 PM
-Banner Blue AR 4:35 PM--DP CDB 11:00 AM
-Blue Bird AR 10:00 PM----DP CDB 4:35 PM

Are there any other cities people would love to see me do?

 

[railiner]

Are there any other cities people would love to see me do?

How about Chicago/St. Paul?
or...Chicago/Detroit?