Amtrak in the age of terrorism

[Karl1459]

The recent bombing in Boston (and disruption of Amtrak service), the 9/11 attack, and other incidents should have awakend us that the US is a victim in a war of terror. Amtrak has done very well to keep its security minimally intrusive and transparent, however we as riders and enthusiasts must do our part. We cannot rely on solely on security to prevent all attacks and to keep us safe at all times, our freedoms require there be cracks in any security system. Passengers on the 9/11 United flight 93 set the standard by making the decision not to die as passive victims. People in Boston made the instant transition from marathon spectators and participants to first responders. We as passengers on a train (or plane etc) will be the eyes and ears for something going wrong, and need to be mentally and physically prepared to act properly.

As frequent and interested riders we should become knowledgable in normal operations and passenger behavior.

Observe fellow passengers, be friendly, engage them with eye contact or even better with conversation... be able to recognize "hinkey". The bad guys want to be anonymous until THEY are ready... not before.

Watch for stuff out of place. Figure out who belongs to who. Backpacks, luggage, what have you. 99+% of the time it will not be a problem but only once makes for a very bad day. Watch who leaves the train at each stop... If they leave items the time to begin reacting is before the train moves again... Of course most of the time even if there is a problem it will be either stopping theft or reuniting someone with a truely forgotten item.

Have a basic knowledge of first aid. Keep a basic "survival kit" with you (water, a little food, medications for 24-72 hours, etc).

Know where the conductor is likey to be... the car attendant... the closest exit from the train or station... the next closest exit... the fire extingusher (do you KNOW how to use one???, when to use one??? when not to???). Amtrak police phone number?

Think ahead... plan ahead. What if "this" passenger is a bad guy? What would be right to do now? What if I figured out that backpack was likely a bomb? What to do? In the very unlikely scenario where one or both was true you might actually have a chance to react correctly if you have a plan.

Be cooperative with Amtrak police/security. They have a good program that works in the background. Amtrak knows that their passengers do not care to be "sardines in a tin" and that the TSA style "dog an pony show" simply will not work for rail passengers. We as passengers do have to be part of the solution... not the problem... and be prepared to keep something an "incident", not a major occurance.

.

 

[Nathanael]

I've generally had this "alert, prepared" approach everywhere since being persistently violently assaulted by bullies as a child, with the authorities standing by and ignoring.

A result is that I'm pretty good in an emergency, but overly tense outside one. Therefore I can't actually recommend this approach to everyone. There's something to be said for being oblivious.

FWIW, terrorist bomb attacks have been going on since at least the 1910s. (They called them "anarchists" rather than "terrorists" back then.) None of this is new.

 

[the Other Mike]

I've never considered a terrisom ON a train. With the tens of thousands of miles of track in unguarded areas, I've always considered that to be the open underbelly of train travel. Years ago there was the derailment out west where either a tie or a pole was embedded into the RoW under some ties and pointing towards the oncoming traffic.

While many of us do hang around RoWs and yards, I would think most of us would know when something is not right.

Yes, it would be possible to consider someone bringing a bomb on board to have it blow in a major city terminal, but there are many other places where railroads are really exposed.

I actually have more concern on traveling over old UP trackage than having a bomb on board.

 

[leemell]

I've generally had this "alert, prepared" approach everywhere since being persistently violently assaulted by bullies as a child, with the authorities standing by and ignoring.
A result is that I'm pretty good in an emergency, but overly tense outside one. Therefore I can't actually recommend this approach to everyone. There's something to be said for being oblivious.

FWIW, terrorist bomb attacks have been going on since at least the 1910s. (They called them "anarchists" rather than "terrorists" back then.) None of this is new.

Goes back even further, e.g. the Chicago Haymarket policeman was bombed at a labor protest in 1886. You can even consider Guy Fawkes overthrow attempt, the gunpowder rebellion in 1606 and so on further back in history.

 

[June the Coach Rider]

I am all for being observant and aware of your surroundings, but if we change how we go about traveling and change the American way, are we not giving into the evil and letting them change how we live? Don't get me wrong, I am not saying take the "who cares" attitude, I am just saying, spending all the time afraid to breath and needing to watch everyone on the train, knowing where the Amtrak employees are on the train is always a good thing, not just because of suspicious stuff, but in case of normal every day emergencies that can happen, i.e. illness or injury.

Being suspicious of every other train passanger I feel is going a little overboard, I am going on the train that is leaving Boston on Saturday, I am not afraid, I live my life safely and cautiously, but I am not going to stop living my life and I am not going to live my life in fear.

 

[Ispolkom]

I mostly ride western trains, so my opinion doesn't apply to the NEC, but given the known propensity of American motorists to run their cars, trucks, and irrigation systems into trains, I don't really worry about terrorists on board. Who would bother to tote a bomb on board when there are thousands of grade crossings?

 

[Skim]

Terrorism has existed for centuries and is often unpreventable. Someone, somewhere will be harmed no matter what precautions are taken. There's no need to become paranoid and begin suspecting those around us. The fear that our government and press promote is a tool to keep us looking away from the real problems they won't solve, or as is often the case, have a hand in creating.

Keep Amtrak the way it is. Don't worry about terrorism on the trains. Avoid becoming bigoted against fellow passengers who fit a vague profile.

In the words of Yoda: Fear leads to hate. Hate leads to the dark side.

 

[battalion51]

I think most people in this day and age subscribe to the "See something, say something" campaign. It really is a great way to catch a lot of things. Frequent travelers, whether buffs or not, generally can find something out of place and will let someone know about someone acting out of place. Do I think there is a threat that transit could be a target? Sure. Put a few thousand people in the same place at the same time and anything can be a target. Train station, sports stadium, concert venue, bridge/tunnel, they're all targets. But we're very lucky to have a great group of dedicated law enforcement professionals to help prevent/minimize the occurrence of things like what happened Monday. #BostonStrong

 

[Barciur]

This might be a bit off-topic.. but I'm curious. Would any of you consider someone vigorously taking a lot of pictures at the train station and on the train as suspicious?

 

[Peter KG6LSE]

This might be a bit off-topic.. but I'm curious. Would any of you consider someone vigorously taking a lot of pictures at the train station and on the train as suspicious?

Photograpy is a easy punching bag as people fear the fact that what can be photographed is already in Line

Every tech deatail is ON LINE !

http://www.monkeypuzzleblog.com/2010_08_01_archive.html for example has a photo of the bogies used on the cascades .\

FOIA can grant people BiDG plans ..

this is the same argument that the google glass is a privacy worry . Its not ,. NO creaper is gonna blow 1.5 Grand on a cam when

these ..http://www.dudeiwantthat.com/gear/gadgets/hd-video-spy-glasses.asp are 149 USD and are FAR less geeky .

No one is gonna blow 4 Grand on a Pro SLR/Lens to just snap photos of trains .

I have a GO Pro and it can yeald some really good shots and its small . same with a modern cam phone .. I can take a casule video and extract the stills and I can hols it so that it looks like I am not filming at all...

People are gonna get there data in ways that are as low profile as possable ... .

We most likely will never See the person(s) who are the plotters for these crimes .

 

[Texan Eagle]

In the words of Yoda: Fear leads to hate. Hate leads to the dark side.

"Fear leads to anger; anger leads to hate; hate leads to suffering"

Misquote Master Yoda, one does not.

 

[Anderson]

This thread reminds me of a time when I inadvertently reported a conductor's bag to the conductor as suspicious out of an over-abundance of caution.

(No, really...I saw a guy run by me to an illogical exit door [i.e. he ran past what I believed to be an open exit at "my" end of the car to the other end] and then saw the bag where he'd just been. The conductor rolled his eyes when I flagged him: Turns out he'd been using the seat and just hadn't gotten back there between NYP and NWK)

 

[Anderson]

In the words of Yoda: Fear leads to hate. Hate leads to the dark side.

"Fear leads to anger; anger leads to hate; hate leads to suffering"

Misquote Master Yoda, one does not.

"Suffering leads to Newark..."

 

[Texan Eagle]

I appreciate your advice about passengers being vigilant, however, I do not agree with everything you wrote.

The recent bombing in Boston (and disruption of Amtrak service), the 9/11 attack, and other incidents should have awakend us that the US is a victim in a war of terror.

And a perpetuator of terror too, considering the several thousand civilians killed in Afghanistan and Iraq in bombings by the US. There cannot be hypocrisy, if foreign individuals causing civilian casualties in the US is considered terrorist attack, civilians killed in other countries for no fault of theirs also counts as one. Anyway I will stop here before the mods throw me out of the forum for discussing politics.

Observe fellow passengers, be friendly, engage them with eye contact or even better with conversation... be able to recognize "hinkey". The bad guys want to be anonymous until THEY are ready... not before.

Can you please provide documentation or a training video on understanding what counts as "hinkey"? How do you decide if a person "has bad intentions"? Are you suggesting everyone on the train should be paranoid fools like those passengers on a flight last week who raised an alarm simply because they heard two guys talking in Arabic?

Watch for stuff out of place. Figure out who belongs to who. Backpacks, luggage, what have you. 99+% of the time it will not be a problem but only once makes for a very bad day. Watch who leaves the train at each stop... If they leave items the time to begin reacting is before the train moves again... Of course most of the time even if there is a problem it will be either stopping theft or reuniting someone with a truely forgotten item.
Have a basic knowledge of first aid. Keep a basic "survival kit" with you (water, a little food, medications for 24-72 hours, etc).

Know where the conductor is likey to be... the car attendant... the closest exit from the train or station... the next closest exit... the fire extingusher (do you KNOW how to use one???, when to use one??? when not to???). Amtrak police phone number?

If you are going to spend every minute of a train ride looking at luggage racks and keeping a tally of who brought in and took out what bags, you are going to miss out on the joys of traveling and will end up making your travels very stressful and miserable.

Think ahead... plan ahead. What if "this" passenger is a bad guy? What would be right to do now? What if I figured out that backpack was likely a bomb? What to do? In the very unlikely scenario where one or both was true you might actually have a chance to react correctly if you have a plan.

How does profiling every passenger as a potential "bad guy" help anyone? The only thing it will end up achieving is paranoia, atmosphere of hate in the train and unwanted calls to the attendant/cops/holding up train.

Long story short, being generally vigilant is a good idea, but overdoing it is not going to achieve anything. Once in a while **** happens. Sorry, can't help it. That's how the world is. If you want to be 100% sure you will not be caught in a terror strike, your only option is too lock yourself inside your home and reinforce it with thick metal walls.

 

[MooGooGaiPan]

I'm amazed that the OP has not suggested that we all arm ourselves to the teeth while riding the train, so that we can blow away anyone who is acting suspiciously, or has a suspicious accent, a suspicious head scarf, or something. That's essentially what the NRA wants to see happen.

The fact is, individuals aren't qualified to judge risk. Hence "If you see something, say something" is one thing, but "If you see something, do something" would not be OK.

The UK lived with terrorism for decades and learned to take it in stride. That deprives terrorists of what they seek most: to be taken seriously and feared.

 

[Misty.]

Observe fellow passengers, be friendly, engage them with eye contact or even better with conversation... be able to recognize "hinkey". The bad guys want to be anonymous until THEY are ready... not before.

Can you please provide documentation or a training video on understanding what counts as "hinkey"? How do you decide if a person "has bad intentions"? Are you suggesting everyone on the train should be paranoid fools like those passengers on a flight last week who raised an alarm simply because they heard two guys talking in Arabic?

Exactly. Take me on a train, as an example - before I somehow know any people from this forum or at least any other friends I have might be on my same train, I'm quite likely to be extremely introverted, listening to my music, playing random games or catching up on trip reports on any electronic toys that I have with me. Would you consider me suspicious from the introversion, or pass me off with hardly a glance because I'm a young...ish female? Either way, just another example of where profiling can fail.

 

[dlagrua]

It is obvious that the government cannot protect the people from acts of terrorism. On the rails it is up to us, the people, to be vigilant. We know what to look for and who is behind these acts of terror. We must not allow this to happen on the Amtrak system so as citizen observers we can help keep the rails safe. With sophisticated explosive detection equipment at the city rail stations, the friendly bomb sniffing dogs and the rail passenger observer keeping a watchful eye on things; we can stop things before they start. This is our country and we cannot allow fanatical terrorists to destroy it.

 

[Bob Dylan]

I don't normally get involved in political discussion ,but on this one I just can't help but think that everyone who is influenced by the Fear Mongers in the Media and Politics should crank up "For What It's Worth" by Buffalo Springfield: ("..Paranoia strikes deep, into your life it must creep..")Our Friends in Israel live with Terrorism 24/7 and this is what the Religious Fanatics,Racists,Black Helicopter Kooks, Militia Crazies and Gun Nuts in the NRA want to have happen here! As has been said, if you spend your life worrying about what Might Happen you'll miss the Fun of the Journey! We're still the Freest and Safest Country around, just remember what the Sgt. on NYPD Blue used to say: "Be careful out there!"

Go Ride a Train and Smile, as Bob Dylan says in "If Dogs Run Free:": ".. it can cure the Soul, make it Whole.."

Edited to Correct Music Mistakes: Thanks, getting Old is a Drag!

 

[Texan Eagle]

We know what to look for and who is behind these acts of terror.

Oh you do? The FBI would like to have a word with you...

 

[TimePeace]

,but on this one I just can't help but think that everyone who is influenced by the Fear Mongers in the Media and Politics should crank up "For What It's Worth" by CSN&Y! ("..Paranoia strikes deep, into your life it must creep..")

Well... actually that song is by the band Buffalo Springfield, but Stephen Stills does sing it - he was in that band before CSN&Y started up.

 

[SeeBuyFly]

...as Bob Dylan says: ".. it can cure the Soul and make it Whole.."

Interestingly, the Dylan song you quoted (imperfectly) from actually mentions trains!

If dogs run free, then why not we

Across the swooping plain?

My ears hear a symphony

Of two mules, trains and rain...

 

[Skim]

In the words of Yoda: Fear leads to hate. Hate leads to the dark side.

"Fear leads to anger; anger leads to hate; hate leads to suffering"

Misquote Master Yoda, one does not.

Point taken. Master Yoda deserves better.

 

[jamesontheroad]

Terrorist acts are not a uniquely American problem; almost every country in the world has had some experience of marginal groups wanting to kill and main for the oxygen of press attention.

But as the history of domestic terrorism shows ( http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domestic_terrorism_in_the_United_States ) the number of people killed and injured in these acts pails in comparison to the number killed EVERY DAY by gun crime, road accidents, medical malpractice etc etc etc.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

You're not going to die because you're a target of terrorism.

You're going to die because your neighbors didn't bother to process/refine/store their chemicals properly



Or because your body succumbed to the ever growing scourge of new and unusual cancers.

Or because somebody casually rammed their vehicle into you while yapping or texting on their phone.

Or dozens of other common paths to an otherwise untimely death.

If we truly understood even the most basic of statistics then terrorism would be just about the last thing we'd think of when it comes to mortality.

 

[NW cannonball]

You're not going to die because you're a target of terrorism.
You're going to die because your neighbors didn't bother to process/refine/store their chemicals properly

Oh, for sure - In the USA for people under about 55 and not newborn, causes of death are accident (automobile, slipped on ice, fall in home) suicide and homicide (usually domestic)

For older folks it's suicide, accident, cancer, heart, stroke, other chronic illness.

One of them will get me sooner or later - but - terrorists - they get big press but they are so far down on the list of real threats - it's like worrying that giant mutant elephants will go mad and attack us here in Minnesota. Damn them all.

Not saying we shouldn't support stopping terrorists - just that the risk is real real real real small, compared to slipping on the ice or a fall in the home or tornados, or bad drivers, or friends and family that get depressed and kill themselves. Or bridges that fall into the Mississipi. Or prescription medications. or OTC medications. Or bee stings. All more of a threat than terrorists.

Here's the official stats for 2010 http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/dvs/deaths_2010_release.pdf

A brief summary -- deaths in the USA 1910

All Causes 2,468,435
HIV 8,369
Malignant Neoplasms (cancer) 574,743
Major Cardiovascular diseases 780,213
All other diseases 269,844
Accidents 120,859
Transport accidents 37,961
Motor Vehicle Accidents 35,332
All other transport accidents 2,629
Nontransport Accidents 82,898
Falls 26,009
Accidental poisoning and exposure to noxious substances 33,041
Accidental drowning and submersion 38,364
Intention self-harm 16,259
Assault (homicide)
Note the "all other transport accidents"

Note the "Falls"

Note the "Accidental poisonings"

Lets get real about the actual threats.

Worry - sure. But please consider the actual threat profile . Supporting a depressed friend wins so much more than worrying about "all other transport accidents".

thanks