amtrak obs crew yearly job rebidding

[yarrow]

this may be common knowledge but was news to me. i was talking to our sleeper attendant during a recent trip and he mentioned that his next run would be his last before all obs jobs were rebid for the coming year. as i understood him, this means that he may well be out of his position as sleeper attendant on the eb if someone with more seniority wants it. he said he hoped he didn't end up as a coach attendant as he didn't much care for that. as i understood him, this was the case for all obs jobs each year. for example, if he wanted to be lounge car attendant on the cs and had more seniority than current people in that slot he could bump them and get it for the year.

 

[sechs]

Welcome to the world of unions.

 

[Tony]

as i understood him, this means that he may well be out of his position as sleeper attendant on the eb if someone with more seniority wants it.

Typically, that only happens when a company is cutting job overall, and I don't think that Amtrak is cutting any LD routes for 2009. Anyone with seniority probably has already used their seniority to get the job they want.

 

[daveyb99]

Welcome to the world of unions.

No, its called SENIORITY.

We bid for days off and leave yearly as well. So do lots of occupations. What is new there?

 

[spot1181]

Thank unions for the 40 hour work week, overtime, holiday pay, sick leave, vacations, child labor laws, safety in the work place. Seniority, the only way. Spot

 

[Kramerica]

as i understood him, this means that he may well be out of his position as sleeper attendant on the eb if someone with more seniority wants it.

Typically, that only happens when a company is cutting job overall, and I don't think that Amtrak is cutting any LD routes for 2009. Anyone with seniority probably has already used their seniority to get the job they want.

Uh, no. 1) Many companies with unions have regular bidding on jobs. My father-in-law works as a semi-driver for UPS; there are maybe 100 of them based at his hub. UPS has 8-12 hour daily "runs" that are spread throughout the day (no clearly defined 1st, 2nd, 3rd shifts; runs start at basically every hour of the day). Every four months they all bid on a run based on seniority. People bid based on how they like the hours and how they like the route and destination. 2) Many people won't have a #1 preferred route that they would always take above all others. Granted Amtrak's OBS jobs don't have as much diversity in description or route as my UPS example, but I'm sure a long-time Amtrak employee would like to switch things up every once in a while. Maybe being a sleeper attendant on the EB is your usual preferred job, but would someone really want to do that for five or more years in a row? I know if I was OBS, I'd like to change routes and maybe positions once in a while. Same thing if I was a UPS semi driver.

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

He'll still have a job! Thank unions for that!

 

[sechs]

Welcome to the world of unions.

No, its called SENIORITY.

Right.

Instead of people being placed in jobs based on their skills, abilities, and fit for the position, they bid on them based on how long they've worked there.

Instead of worker's pay being based upon how well they do their job, it's based upon how long they've worked there.

We have many things for which to thank unions, but this is not one of them.

 

[sky12065]

Welcome to the world of unions.

No, its called SENIORITY.

Right.

Instead of people being placed in jobs based on their skills, abilities, and fit for the position, they bid on them based on how long they've worked there.

Instead of worker's pay being based upon how well they do their job, it's based upon how long they've worked there.

We have many things for which to thank unions, but this is not one of them.

Unions are a necessary evil brought about by mistreatment of employees by employers. This can be demonstrated by the case of the Triangle Wasteshirt Fire? Click the link for information about it! That fire was lauded as being a turning point un unionization.

Can unions go too far at times? Of course they can as anything can be carried to far, but that doesn't minimuize the necessity for an organization to protect workers rights. Some employeers don't need unions because they are inherently fair to their employees, but as the Triangle Fire demonstrates, there are many who would take any means needed to maximize production and work forces need protection from those kinds of employeers.

So what about seniority issues, are they fair or are they unfair as you claim? Well my feeling is that they are fair if agreed upon by both labor and management and not onesided or subgugated by inside dealings between emplorer and unions while setting aside the employees best interest!

They're fair to the employees because it rewards them for longivity is faithful service and it doesn't peanilize employees who meet job standards to the best of their ability. If you are blessed to be able to prerform above and beyond what's expected that's great and you should be rewarded but not at the expense of others who cannot. If you worked someplace for 20 years and performed at the best of your ability I'm sure you would resent it if someone off the street and you had no seniority priviledges over that new employee on day one.

They are also fair to the employee because it gives the most employees a sense of loyalty especially when the seniority is not forced upon the employeer. Without that sense of loyalty there would be a higher rate of turnover and that would create a loss of experience and and increase in training expense and lost productivity during training and with loss of experience.

So needless to say, I disagree with your feelings about seniority!

 

[Bierboy]

I know I'm a knucklehead, but could someone tell me what "OBS" stands for? Thanks.

 

[Rail Freak]

I know I'm a knucklehead, but could someone tell me what "OBS" stands for? Thanks.

On Board Service, I believe!

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

Welcome to the world of unions.

No, its called SENIORITY.

Right.

Instead of people being placed in jobs based on their skills, abilities, and fit for the position, they bid on them based on how long they've worked there.

Instead of worker's pay being based upon how well they do their job, it's based upon how long they've worked there.

We have many things for which to thank unions, but this is not one of them.

Unions are a necessary evil brought about by mistreatment of employees by employers. This can be demonstrated by the case of the Triangle Wasteshirt Fire? Click the link for information about it! That fire was lauded as being a turning point un unionization.

Can unions go too far at times? Of course they can as anything can be carried to far, but that doesn't minimuize the necessity for an organization to protect workers rights. Some employeers don't need unions because they are inherently fair to their employees, but as the Triangle Fire demonstrates, there are many who would take any means needed to maximize production and work forces need protection from those kinds of employeers.

So what about seniority issues, are they fair or are they unfair as you claim? Well my feeling is that they are fair if agreed upon by both labor and management and not onesided or subgugated by inside dealings between emplorer and unions while setting aside the employees best interest!

They're fair to the employees because it rewards them for longivity is faithful service and it doesn't peanilize employees who meet job standards to the best of their ability. If you are blessed to be able to prerform above and beyond what's expected that's great and you should be rewarded but not at the expense of others who cannot. If you worked someplace for 20 years and performed at the best of your ability I'm sure you would resent it if someone off the street and you had no seniority priviledges over that new employee on day one.

They are also fair to the employee because it gives the most employees a sense of loyalty especially when the seniority is not forced upon the employeer. Without that sense of loyalty there would be a higher rate of turnover and that would create a loss of experience and and increase in training expense and lost productivity during training and with loss of experience.

So needless to say, I disagree with your feelings about seniority!

Wayy off topic there man. The Triangle Fire may have been a move towards the unionization of America, but has nothing to do with seniority.

Seniority is one of the silliest things unions do. I have nothing against rewarding years of service- but ANY job should ALWAYS go to the most qualified person to do said job. Certainly those with seniority are protected because, doing their job for many years, they should be the most qualified.

And if they aren't its their own damn fault.

Seniority also sometimes causes a closed loop system. For instance, Actor's Equity helps keep professional actors in work by making certain roles in plays "equity-only roles" how do you get into Equity? You have to be in an Equity role, how do you get into an Equity role? You be a member of Equity...

They now (after many years) have a point system where non-union members can work towards their membership with Equity in non-equity roles. This was a long time coming, and many will tell you this came about because the older members of Equity were quite literally dying out- because they had made a closed system that defiantly held onto members who had more years in the business than others.

Of course there are other in-roads to Equity, but hard to find and you usually have to know somebody in-group very well.

 

[AlanB]

I know I'm a knucklehead, but could someone tell me what "OBS" stands for? Thanks.

On Board Service, I believe!

Correct.

It refers to the employees on the train whose primary focus in on customer service. They include cafe attendants, sleeping car attendants, waiters, dining car steward (more commonly know as the LSA or Lead Service Attendant), and coach attendants.

The operating crew refers to those whose primary responsability is the safe operation of the train, namely the conductor and engineer.

 

[oldtimer]

Another reason for changes is that ld obs jobs are on a cycle x#of days on and x#of days off some workers project their scgeduke ahead so that they are home for the holidays.

 

[yarrow]

what about the operating crew? they are unionized aren't they? their positions aren't rebid yearly are they?

 

[Hanno]

He'll still have a job! Thank unions for that!

There seem to be a number of members commenting on the benefits of unionization. Personally I am neither pro or con (I actually was a member of the United Steel Workers at one point in my career....on second thought I probably lean toward con based on my personal expereince with the USW) realtive to unions but I do know that many many union jobs are being lost. Most of these seem to be manufacturing jobs (like UAW) that are being shipped oversees because of lower costs.

My question is, "Why don't the unions take some of thier money and promote "buy American" campaigns?" Just do a quick survey on the number of cars that are sold in the USA that are made oversees. How many of the pro-union people are driving American built cars? I have a brother-in-law who is a union member and very pro-union but just bought a Subaru. What's up with that? He said it was cheaper than a Ford or GM product!

I just had to jump in on this hot topic!

 

[haolerider]

He'll still have a job! Thank unions for that!

There seem to be a number of members commenting on the benefits of unionization. Personally I am neither pro or con (I actually was a member of the United Steel Workers at one point in my career....on second thought I probably lean toward con based on my personal expereince with the USW) realtive to unions but I do know that many many union jobs are being lost. Most of these seem to be manufacturing jobs (like UAW) that are being shipped oversees because of lower costs.

My question is, "Why don't the unions take some of thier money and promote "buy American" campaigns?" Just do a quick survey on the number of cars that are sold in the USA that are made oversees. How many of the pro-union people are driving American built cars? I have a brother-in-law who is a union member and very pro-union but just bought a Subaru. What's up with that? He said it was cheaper than a Ford or GM product!

I just had to jump in on this hot topic!

You may recall the "Look for the Union Label" ad campaign of many years ago, that promoted Buy America. Haven't seen that for some time, nor have I seen any real push by the unions to promote their own products. There is a reason for the relocation of so many production jobs to foreign countries and since the highest cost of production is generally labor that seems to be the rationale. Steel, automotive, clothing - the list goes on and on.

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

He'll still have a job! Thank unions for that!

There seem to be a number of members commenting on the benefits of unionization. Personally I am neither pro or con (I actually was a member of the United Steel Workers at one point in my career....on second thought I probably lean toward con based on my personal expereince with the USW) realtive to unions but I do know that many many union jobs are being lost. Most of these seem to be manufacturing jobs (like UAW) that are being shipped oversees because of lower costs.

My question is, "Why don't the unions take some of thier money and promote "buy American" campaigns?" Just do a quick survey on the number of cars that are sold in the USA that are made oversees. How many of the pro-union people are driving American built cars? I have a brother-in-law who is a union member and very pro-union but just bought a Subaru. What's up with that? He said it was cheaper than a Ford or GM product!

I just had to jump in on this hot topic!

You may recall the "Look for the Union Label" ad campaign of many years ago, that promoted Buy America. Haven't seen that for some time, nor have I seen any real push by the unions to promote their own products. There is a reason for the relocation of so many production jobs to foreign countries and since the highest cost of production is generally labor that seems to be the rationale. Steel, automotive, clothing - the list goes on and on.

Reason being- it costs more. Non-uonion people in the USA don't give a damn whether the American car was made in America or Japan when several thousand dollars separate them. Unions are victims of their own success. In pushing for higher wages they made products more expensive. While I do understand that buying American products will help the economy, I am just one person. Maybe if my entire city joined me in buying American products I would do it- but in the meantime you tell that to all of us living paycheck to paycheck.

Better yet- ask union members what they buy. Chances are, yes, they buy more union goods- but ask them if they check to see if they bought Ecuadorian bananas or Californian oranges... Many union members are like the rest of us, paycheck to paycheck, and do not buy American outside of their own trade.

 

[Hanno]

So that's the dilema, do we allow totally free trade and import everything from China because it is cheap and in the meantime continue to lose more and more jobs or do we restrict imports? No simple solution. I drive a Buick Enclave (excellent vehicle IMHO) because I want to support an American company because it is good for America and good for me because other Americans can then buy what I produce. Of course this is America and it is wonderful that I have a choice. My point is that there are consequences for all the choices we make. And in order to bring this discussion back to the reason for this forum, the same applies to chosing to use Amtrak.

 

[sky12065]

Welcome to the world of unions.

No, its called SENIORITY.

Right.

Instead of people being placed in jobs based on their skills, abilities, and fit for the position, they bid on them based on how long they've worked there.

Instead of worker's pay being based upon how well they do their job, it's based upon how long they've worked there.

We have many things for which to thank unions, but this is not one of them.

Unions are a necessary evil brought about by mistreatment of employees by employers. This can be demonstrated by the case of the Triangle Wasteshirt Fire? Click the link for information about it! That fire was lauded as being a turning point un unionization.

Can unions go too far at times? Of course they can as anything can be carried to far, but that doesn't minimuize the necessity for an organization to protect workers rights. Some employeers don't need unions because they are inherently fair to their employees, but as the Triangle Fire demonstrates, there are many who would take any means needed to maximize production and work forces need protection from those kinds of employeers.

So what about seniority issues, are they fair or are they unfair as you claim? Well my feeling is that they are fair if agreed upon by both labor and management and not onesided or subgugated by inside dealings between emplorer and unions while setting aside the employees best interest!

They're fair to the employees because it rewards them for longivity is faithful service and it doesn't peanilize employees who meet job standards to the best of their ability. If you are blessed to be able to prerform above and beyond what's expected that's great and you should be rewarded but not at the expense of others who cannot. If you worked someplace for 20 years and performed at the best of your ability I'm sure you would resent it if someone off the street and you had no seniority priviledges over that new employee on day one.

They are also fair to the employee because it gives the most employees a sense of loyalty especially when the seniority is not forced upon the employeer. Without that sense of loyalty there would be a higher rate of turnover and that would create a loss of experience and and increase in training expense and lost productivity during training and with loss of experience.

So needless to say, I disagree with your feelings about seniority!

RESPONSE TO 'ALC_RAIL_WRITER' BEGINS

Wayy off topic there man. The Triangle Fire may have been a move towards the unionization of America, but has nothing to do with seniority.

You're right! It wasn't intentional, but it's done and so be it!

Seniority is one of the silliest things unions do. I have nothing against rewarding years of service- but ANY job should ALWAYS go to the most qualified person to do said job. Certainly those with seniority are protected because, doing their job for many years, they should be the most qualified. And if they aren't its their own damn fault.

We'll have to agree to disagree! I don't think it's "silly" to give reasonable seniority priviledges to those who have proven themselves over trime above someone who has yet to do so or haven't done so for as long. I also don't think it's "silly" to be protected from being mistreated through favoritism or prejudice either. I know the effects of this first hand because during my work years I have been effected negatively by both practices which in turn made me more negative toward my employer because of it! It also had nothing to do whatsoever with performance issues!

Seniority also sometimes causes a closed loop system. For instance, Actor's Equity helps keep professional actors in work by making certain roles in plays "equity-only roles" how do you get into Equity? You have to be in an Equity role, how do you get into an Equity role? You be a member of Equity...
They now (after many years) have a point system where non-union members can work towards their membership with Equity in non-equity roles. This was a long time coming, and many will tell you this came about because the older members of Equity were quite literally dying out- because they had made a closed system that defiantly held onto members who had more years in the business than others. Of course there are other in-roads to Equity, but hard to find and you usually have to know somebody in-group very well.

In this case I do agree at least in part with you, but again that is tied into hiring practices and not seniority in the manner it was being discussed. The reason I agree with you is that my son was in a similar situation where he spent over $50,000 to attend the LA Film School. Afterward he did get work and repeat work but never enough to live on. WHY? Because he was not in the union! He eventually had to give the work up and find another line of work in order to survive.

Nothing in this world is perfectly equal nor is it black and white. So we sometime have to take reasonable comprimise to co-exisist in peace! Seniority in my opinion is one of those reasonable comprimises! As I said, "We'll have to agree to disagree!" I'm not changing your opinion and you're not changing mine!

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

In this case I do agree at least in part with you, but again that is tied into hiring practices and not seniority in the manner it was being discussed. The reason I agree with you is that my son was in a similar situation where he spent over $50,000 to attend the LA Film School. Afterward he did get work and repeat work but never enough to live on. WHY? Because he was not in the union! He eventually had to give the work up and find another line of work in order to survive.

Your son was likely damned no matter what he did. LA actors usually report to the Screen Actors Guild and Equity.

Equity puts out figures, but in NYC- 4% of non-Equity actors are employed, and only 6% of Equity members are... Unemployment in the business is horrible. Being an Equity of Guild member doesn't give you work, it really only means that when you get work- you're on a higher pay scale.

Still- Seniority is a sill idea. I am all for giving more money per years of service- but always always always the best job goes to the best person...

We will agree then... to disagree.

 

[Green Maned Lion]

So that's the dilema, do we allow totally free trade and import everything from China because it is cheap and in the meantime continue to lose more and more jobs or do we restrict imports? No simple solution. I drive a Buick Enclave (excellent vehicle IMHO) because I want to support an American company because it is good for America and good for me because other Americans can then buy what I produce. Of course this is America and it is wonderful that I have a choice. My point is that there are consequences for all the choices we make. And in order to bring this discussion back to the reason for this forum, the same applies to chosing to use Amtrak.

I'm glad you want to support American workers, cuz your car is built in Canada!

 

[Hanno]

So that's the dilema, do we allow totally free trade and import everything from China because it is cheap and in the meantime continue to lose more and more jobs or do we restrict imports? No simple solution. I drive a Buick Enclave (excellent vehicle IMHO) because I want to support an American company because it is good for America and good for me because other Americans can then buy what I produce. Of course this is America and it is wonderful that I have a choice. My point is that there are consequences for all the choices we make. And in order to bring this discussion back to the reason for this forum, the same applies to chosing to use Amtrak.

I'm glad you want to support American workers, cuz your car is built in Canada!

I happen to agree with you on many things but on this one you are wrong. The Enclave is built in Lansing, MI!

 

[sky12065]

So that's the dilema, do we allow totally free trade and import everything from China because it is cheap and in the meantime continue to lose more and more jobs or do we restrict imports? No simple solution. I drive a Buick Enclave (excellent vehicle IMHO) because I want to support an American company because it is good for America and good for me because other Americans can then buy what I produce. Of course this is America and it is wonderful that I have a choice. My point is that there are consequences for all the choices we make. And in order to bring this discussion back to the reason for this forum, the same applies to chosing to use Amtrak.

I'm glad you want to support American workers, cuz your car is built in Canada!

I happen to agree with you on many things but on this one you are wrong. The Enclave is built in Lansing, MI!

It appears that you're right! Check car's overview HERE!

If it was mgf'd in Canada, there's a code in the VIN that bears that out! You can self check it out with the decode information found on the following website:

http://www.is-it-a-lemon.com/vin_check/free_vin_decoder.htm

 

[wrjensen]

To get back to the topic:

How are bids done? Is it done where you can bid anywhere on the system or can do you have to bid on your location?