Amtrak offers Thruway connections between Williston and Missoula

[jebr]

Amtrak is now offering Thruway connections 8207 and 8208, a codeshare agreement with Jefferson Lines schedules 933 and 938. 8207 (JL 933) connects with the westbound 7 to offer connections from Williston and points east, and 8208 (JL 938) connects with the eastbound 8 to complete the round-trip. Connections do not appear to be offered to points west of Williston on the Builder.

There's no press release yet, but it was mentioned in the latest NARP newsletter and is also bookable on Amtrak.com.

8207/933: Westbound 7 arrives 11:42 AM


8208/938: Eastbound 8 departs 4:09 PM


Edit: From Amtrak's booking page:

 

[fairviewroad]

Pretty brutal schedule if you're going all the way to Missoula, but not so bad if you're going to Billings or points east.

But it should also be noted that Jefferson Bus Lines can get you from Minneapolis to Billing about 20 hours faster and

for less money via a direct routing on I-94. So I'm not sure who this new codeshare will appeal to. Oh well. Doesn't

seem to be much of a downside to at least offering it.

 

[NW cannonball]

I've liked Jefferson Lines since the 60's. Slightly spendy - but good.

But "connecting to the Empire Builder" at Williston -- the mind boggles.

But the schedule says it -- and an alternative westbound way is a really good deal and I hope it works.

 

[jis]

Pretty brutal schedule if you're going all the way to Missoula, but not so bad if you're going to Billings or points east.

But it should also be noted that Jefferson Bus Lines can get you from Minneapolis to Billing about 20 hours faster and

for less money via a direct routing on I-94. So I'm not sure who this new codeshare will appeal to. Oh well. Doesn't

seem to be much of a downside to at least offering it.

I suppose people who want to have a comfortable lunch and dinner on the train and perhaps even avail of a sleeper roomette to sleep before getting on the grueling bus journey?

 

[jebr]

Pretty brutal schedule if you're going all the way to Missoula, but not so bad if you're going to Billings or points east.

But it should also be noted that Jefferson Bus Lines can get you from Minneapolis to Billing about 20 hours faster and

for less money via a direct routing on I-94. So I'm not sure who this new codeshare will appeal to. Oh well. Doesn't

seem to be much of a downside to at least offering it.

I suppose people who want to have a comfortable lunch and dinner on the train and perhaps even avail of a sleeper roomette to sleep before getting on the grueling bus journey?

Perhaps. But looking westbound, I can have no transfers, leave at 6:45 AM (so no overnight), and basically just have the daytime portion in a bus. There's the same amount of overnight time on the bus either way.

It's not really meant to cater to the MSP market, though, I'd imagine. It's probably for the intermediate points (like Staples, etc.) where the bus connection is awful (Staples requires a layover from 6:10 PM - 2 AM in Fargo, which sounds not fun) and Amtrak can grab that business (I'd almost rather board at 2 AM, sleep on the train, and have a daytime layover rather than a layover until 2 AM.)

EDIT: Devil's Lake and Rugby actually have no bus service except for Amtrak, so it adds service to those as well, as well as possibly other stops south of MSP.

 

[jis]

It basically cover the old route of the North Coast Hiawatha upto Missoula. If service is restored on that route, there will be no service to Butte since the railroad through Homestake Pass is not in use anymore, though still in place. The service will be through Helena via Mullens Pass. That would add one more state capital to the Amtrak map.

I have actually done that bus journey, then by Greyhound from Minneapolis to Butte, and then on some other bus line from Butte through Helena to Great Falls MT. This was back in my student days in the late '70s. Could not afford even back then as a student.

 

[WoodyinNYC]

-Amtrak has added six Thruway bus routes – four Greyhound, one Capital Trailways, and one Jefferson Lines routes. These include:

• Pittsburgh – Columbus (Trains 8029/8030)
• Montgomery-Mobile-New Orleans (Trains 8658/8659)
• Jackson – Mobile (Trains 8858/8859)
• Albuquerque – El Paso (Trains 8103/8104)
• Mobile – Tuscaloosa (Trains 8019/8020)
• Williston – Missoula (Trains 8207/8208)

From today's NARP Newsletter.

 

[railiner]

I have actually done that bus journey, then by Greyhound from Minneapolis to Butte, and then on some other bus line from Butte through Helena to Great Falls MT. This was back in my student days in the late '70s. Could not afford even back then as a student.

That 'other bus line' was Intermountain Transportation Compny....long out of business....

 

[neroden]

Poor Butte. Used to have three different railroad lines.

 

[Ispolkom]

Poor Butte. Used to have three different railroad lines.

Well, then it had copper to ship out. Now it only has pork chop sandwiches.

 

[neroden]

There's also a giant toxic pit in the middle of town, now.

My mom grew up in Butte. *Before* they did open pit mining. (And yes, those were neighborhoods before they dug the pit.) She was technically still around when they first started the pit mining, but it was pretty small then. Her entire family moved away pretty soon after that... before the company started buying up the neighborhoods to expand the pit.

Poor Butte.

 

[Ziv]

I find it hard to believe, but this actually works perfectly for me. And the 8 hour layover in Williston may be a pain, but at least it means the EB will probably make it in time.

My Mom has a ranch NW of Billings that I need to visit as often as possible. I have been flying into Billings because taking Amtrak from DC to Glasgow or Malta was fine, but getting from the Hi-Line to Billings/Molt was just about impossible.

Now I can just take the Capital Limited/Empire Builder/Thruway, crash at a hotel in Billings and she will pick me up in the morning. I will still probably fly home to save a day but now I can be there for the branding and fit in a train trip, as well. How cool is that!

Come to think of it, I have never taken the Cardinal, so I can take another route on the way out there.

On edit: Too bad the bus doesn't start in Minot. If it did, it might avoid a substantial part of the trackage that is causing the delays.

 

[JayPea]

I was just through Butte last week. It's a shame they can't do anything with that ugly pit right in town there. It's also a shame that one of the railroad lines that used to serve it, the Milwaukee, was deliberately and as far as I'm concerned fraudulently run into the ground by its owners. Posting years of double negative entries to make it look as though it were bankrupt instead of profitable, which it was, and using that erroneous information as an excuse to all but refuse to ship goods and do even the slightest bit of track maintenance is shameful indeed.

 

[railiner]

Poor Butte. Used to have three different railroad lines.

Yes it did...the Northern Pacific, the Union Pacific, and the Milwaukee Road as far as passenger trains went, It also had the Butte, Anaconda, and Pacific mining railroad, which at one time also carried local passengers.

Greyhound's northern transcontinental route also served it well with up to four daily trips, at one point. Intermountain provided north/south service running part of a thru Los Angeles-Salt Lake City-Idaho Falls- Butte- Great Falls- Sweetgrass- Calgary route at one time.

In addition NP Transport, a bus subsidiary of the Northern Pacific ran train connections for their trains that took the route thru Helena....

 

[jis]

The ride down Homestake Pass to Butte is almost up there with the Denver Front Range experience. Too bad it is gone for good. At least you can sort of get a similar experience from the highway there.

 

[railiner]

The ride down Homestake Pass to Butte is almost up there with the Denver Front Range experience. Too bad it is gone for good. At least you can sort of get a similar experience from the highway there.

Yes it was! I remember descending into Butte on a night run....it was almost like approaching from an airliner, with a spectacular view while descending....

 

[Karl1459]

Poor Butte. Used to have three different railroad lines.

Yes it did...the Northern Pacific, the Union Pacific, and the Milwaukee Road as far as passenger trains went, It also had the Butte, Anaconda, and Pacific mining railroad, which at one time also carried local passengers.

Greyhound's northern transcontinental route also served it well with up to four daily trips, at one point. Intermountain provided north/south service running part of a thru Los Angeles-Salt Lake City-Idaho Falls- Butte- Great Falls- Sweetgrass- Calgary route at one time.

In addition NP Transport, a bus subsidiary of the Northern Pacific ran train connections for their trains that took the route thru Helena....

Add the Great Northern branch from Helena.

 

[Karl1459]

Seriously, any codeshare or Thruway service that can be added without additional costs or compromising rail service is a good thing.

The potential to increase ridership on the rail segment will help Amtrak in its seek for funding.

I can also provide a market trial and build ridership base for a future rail link. As a hypothetical example Dallas/Ft Worth to Houston... if bus ridership got into the 200-300's rail might look like a cost advantage. I am assuming a cost model that rail has a relativly high "empty" cost with low "per passenger" cost compared to bus, so when you get enough people in a train it costs less than multiple buses.

If Amtrak/Montana were to be serious about a restored "Hiawatha" this would be a good start, then adding a Spokane-Missoula link.

 

[WoodyinNYC]

Seriously, any codeshare or Thruway service that can be added

without additional costs or compromising rail service is a good thing.

Amtrak has added six Thruway bus routes –

These include:

• Pittsburgh – Columbus (Trains 8029/8030)
• Montgomery-Mobile-New Orleans (Trains 8658/8659)
• Jackson – Mobile (Trains 8858/8859)
• Albuquerque – El Paso (Trains 8103/8104)
• Mobile – Tuscaloosa (Trains 8019/8020)
• Williston – Missoula (Trains 8207/8208)

From the NARP Newsletter

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

I like all of these new routes. My favorite is the

Albuquerque-El Paso / Sunset Ltd-Southwest Chief

connection. At 250 miles, it's not a quick trip.

But consider the alternatives: from New Orleans,

Houston, and San Antonio to Albuquerque or the

Grand Canyou stops, you had to go to L.A. or

Chicago and backtrack a zillion miles. So there

will be riders transferring one train to another.

And it connects UTEP the University of Texas

at El Paso, New Mexico State at Las Cruces,

the big retirement town of Truth or Consequences ,

New Mexico Tech at Socorro, and the University

of New Mexico at Albuquerque. These stops

will feed traffic onto the Southwest Chief and

Sunset Limited, and they can use the business.

Meanwhile the Sunset Ltd and the CONO both

should pick up passengers from that Montgomery-

Mobile-New Orleans bus.

 

[railiner]

Poor Butte. Used to have three different railroad lines.

Yes it did...the Northern Pacific, the Union Pacific, and the Milwaukee Road as far as passenger trains went, It also had the Butte, Anaconda, and Pacific mining railroad, which at one time also carried local passengers.

Greyhound's northern transcontinental route also served it well with up to four daily trips, at one point. Intermountain provided north/south service running part of a thru Los Angeles-Salt Lake City-Idaho Falls- Butte- Great Falls- Sweetgrass- Calgary route at one time.

In addition NP Transport, a bus subsidiary of the Northern Pacific ran train connections for their trains that took the route thru Helena....

Add the Great Northern branch from Helena.

Good one! I'd forgotten about that one....recall they ran an RDC on it....

 

[Ziv]

Poor Butte. Used to have three different railroad lines.

Yes it did...the Northern Pacific, the Union Pacific, and the Milwaukee Road as far as passenger trains went, It also had the Butte, Anaconda, and Pacific mining railroad, which at one time also carried local passengers.

Greyhound's northern transcontinental route also served it well with up to four daily trips, at one point. Intermountain provided north/south service running part of a thru Los Angeles-Salt Lake City-Idaho Falls- Butte- Great Falls- Sweetgrass- Calgary route at one time.

In addition NP Transport, a bus subsidiary of the Northern Pacific ran train connections for their trains that took the route thru Helena....

Add the Great Northern branch from Helena.

Good one! I'd forgotten about that one....recall they ran an RDC on it....

That Budd Car got a workout. I think it started out going Billings to Great Falls, then Havre to Great Falls for a few years. And now you are telling me it hit Helena as well? Or maybe Helena was the end of the Havre/Great Falls/Helena route? If so, that would have been a real treat, showing you two faces of Montana within a couple hours. I grew up on the plains but I have to admit the more mountainous areas further west sure are impressive. Helena isn't exactly alpine but it is scenic.

One Budd Car and so many different routes, maybe GN should have bought more.