Amtrak Police shook me down in Reno

[OTownDog]

Ok, so lets start this off on the right foot before everybody jumps on the 9-11 governemnt conspiracy BS. This is a very common occurance in Reno and it is NOT the Amtrak Police, but rather the Reno Police Dept. The are looking for people traffic drugs along the I-80 corridor and quite frequently (at least once a week) make a bust, a very substancial one at that. This has NOTHING to do with terriorism, but rather illegal drugs. The Reno Police will meet the train in Truckee or Winnamucca and go through the manifests looking for people who fit a certain criteria, I dont know what that criteria is. I would guess, and this is strickly a guess, but Orgin, Destination, how the ticket was paid for etc. A cross country trip, one way, paid cash, booked at the last minuete would likely set off a red flag so to speak. Once the officeres have determined who the passengers are, they interigate them in Reno. Will there be some that get questioned that are legit, yes it does happen, unfortionatly. They also are very professional and fast. In my expirences I have witnessed them have a K-9 board in Reno and the dog will be walked by a suspisus person or persons accomidations. If the dog alerts they will then search the person and their belongings for drugs. Othere instances the officers have simply asked said person if they would object to a search of their belongings for drugs, if the person objects they have a dog on site that can alert and give probable cause. Hope this helps to clear the situation up.

This is what I also heard from my SCA and LSA. I explained that it was cold in Reno this morning and I was wearing a hoodie and smoking a cigarette. They both said the hoodie is what most likey set them off and fit their criteria. My reservation was one-way, but it was booked in February using a credit card. They both also mentioned that they make substantial busts quite frequently because folks are in fact using Amtrak to traffic drugs along the I-80 corridor. A bust was made last week where 2 20-something girls had 45 pounds of marijuana in their roomette. Penny had mentioned a hippy looking young man named Will. The "Burning Man" festival begins today in the desert north of Reno, and there were several young "hippie" or "dirty backpackers" as I like to call them on the train, all debarking in Reno for this festival. I mentioned to the officer that if he was looking for something, he'd have better luck with the Burning man festival goers. He said that he wasn't concerned with drugs being held for "personal use", he was looking for a cache.

Thank you Asst Conductor OKJ for confirming the information I heard on board. Knowing that these bust are made so frequently makes me feel a little better, but the demeanor of the Reno cop could have been more professional. I was guilty until proven innocent and that really bothers me.

Jeff

 

[pennyk]

Sunday morning I ate breakfast on the CZ before Denver with a young man going that festival. Although he looked nothing like Paris Hilton, he was talking like he had been using something for recreational use.

Jeff, enjoy your stay in California and good luck running the half marathon.

Penny

PS - While in Grand Junction, CO, I asked the conductor who was leaving the train if this was a reburbished Superliner 1. He said he did not know and that I knew more about trains than he did. That was not comforting - I am hoping he was making a joke. Unlike Jeff, I cannot tell by the wheels, but the inside of my room looks different than the Superliner I was in 2 days ago. :wacko:

 

[PerRock]

There are the two different trucks; the top set is Super I; bottom Super II.

peter

 

[Guest]

Jeff: Glad you got some info, the hoddie thing should alert all of us not to wear one around the law, that sure sounds like profiling to me! I had to laugh about the young blonde babe's picture, whoever she is? :lol: Hope you enjoy the rest of your trip, good luck in the race also! Your trip report should be great, andd the adventure you will remember always!

Penny: got to think the conductor was putting you on a little, some of them dont like train fans (they invented the foamer name long before our time!), hence the I dont want to talk about it! Besides the pics of the trucks, Most Superliner Is have been refurbished, have wood like paneling, remodeled bathrooms and in the roomettes there is a very narrow closet to hang a couple of jackets. The IIs have an open space in that area to hang your stuff, the bathrooms and showers are different (a rehabbed I is better than a II in my opinion).Most agree that IIs also have more toliet failures than the rehabbed Is @ altitude!

Since Ive only ridden in bedrooms in Superliner Is I dont know of any differences between them and IIs in regards to the bedrooms!

 

[tp49]

A cross country trip, one way, paid cash, booked at the last minute would likely set off a red flag so to speak.

Yes, this works so well. There was an outstanding example several years back where a man bought a Nashville to New Orleans plane ticket cash as a walk up. He endured quite an ordeal. Finally, and I think after he had missed his flight, he was turned loose after all the things he told them had been exhasutively checked.

The simple and basic facts were:

He had a lnadscaping or some such like business, which tended to be mostly cash and he as a practice did not use credit cards.

He was buying a vehicle from someone down that way and was going to drive it back.

It is kind of hard to get someone to verify your employment when you work for yourself.

I worked for someone who is representing a client in an active case that came about from one of these raids on Amtrak where they did find a large amount of drugs on the people. They purchased space in a roomette, paid cash going cross-country last minute. Works both ways.

 

[the_traveler]

I had to laugh about the young blonde babe's picture, whoever she is? :lol:

Don't call me a "she"!

 

[yarrow]

i do think this shows an out of control aspect of law enforcement. i don't have a problem if they want to check everyone but to single out one person without evidently any reason other than their clothing and subject that person to the stress and embarassment they did strikes me as unconstitutional.

 

[RailFanLNK]

Uh-oh...I wear a hoodie alot that says "IRISH" and it's black with the tri-colors of the Republic of Ireland. Guys will probably think I'm running drugs for the IRA and I"m on the CZ in a few weeks! :help:

 

[LA Resident]

Ok, so lets start this off on the right foot before everybody jumps on the 9-11 governemnt conspiracy BS. This is a very common occurance in Reno and it is NOT the Amtrak Police, but rather the Reno Police Dept. The are looking for people traffic drugs along the I-80 corridor and quite frequently (at least once a week) make a bust, a very substancial one at that. This has NOTHING to do with terriorism, but rather illegal drugs. The Reno Police will meet the train in Truckee or Winnamucca and go through the manifests looking for people who fit a certain criteria, I dont know what that criteria is. I would guess, and this is strickly a guess, but Orgin, Destination, how the ticket was paid for etc. A cross country trip, one way, paid cash, booked at the last minuete would likely set off a red flag so to speak. Once the officeres have determined who the passengers are, they interigate them in Reno. Will there be some that get questioned that are legit, yes it does happen, unfortionatly. They also are very professional and fast. In my expirences I have witnessed them have a K-9 board in Reno and the dog will be walked by a suspisus person or persons accomidations. If the dog alerts they will then search the person and their belongings for drugs. Othere instances the officers have simply asked said person if they would object to a search of their belongings for drugs, if the person objects they have a dog on site that can alert and give probable cause. Hope this helps to clear the situation up.

I'm sorry but something here doesn't seem to add up. From what I know, local police are severely restricted in policing instruments of interstate commerce, which is what Amtrak is. In particular, I doubt that a local Reno police force could board Amtrak in Winnemucca or Truckee, places outside of its jurisdiction, and troll through passenger manifests or anything else looking for drugs, stolen cash, or whatever. That would be akin to the Chicago police boarding a United Airlines plane in Los Angeles, bound for Chicago, and then sifting through the carry-ons of whichever passenger they suspected of whatever during the flight.

Now, a separate question is whether the Reno police, tipped to the probability of a passenger arriving in Reno on Amtrak being a drug courier, could board the train? Perhaps, given specific circumstances. But they still would need probable cause. For example, you can't stop someone on a highway based solely on profiling. The US Supreme Court has limited such searches only after someone has been stopped for a legitimate reason, such as speeding, and during the traffic stop there develops reasonable cause to suspect the driver is ferrying drugs.

It would be interesting if someone with a strong legal background on this site could address the allegations of the OP as to what may have happened in Reno.

 

[user 3575]

Um. "The "Burning Man" festival begins today in the desert north of Reno, and there were several young "hippie" or "dirty backpackers" as I like to call them on the train, all debarking in Reno for this festival. I mentioned to the officer that if he was looking for something, he'd have better luck with the Burning man festival goers."

So it's OK for the cops to hassle people who look to you to be hippies, dirty backpackers and/or Burning Man attendees, since you feel they might have drugs on them...but not OK for the cops to hassle you on appearance alone, because that's profiling.

Um. Profiling others = OK, profiling you = bad?

I wonder what the dirty backpackers like to call people like that. "Hypocrites" probably.

 

[daveyb99]

Jeff: Glad you got some info, the hoodie thing should alert all of us not to wear one around the law ...

HAH, I will now go out and purchase a hoodie just to make the cops crazy, and give them the "come on, I dare ya" look.

AND.

I would have said "NO" to a search, shut the door, made them hold up the train and get a warrant. HAHAHAHAHA

(note: see, I can say these things because I was a cop for 20-years. A search must be on probable cause, and he had none. That is why he went with consent, which most people will agree to. Further, I would guess there IS an expectation of privacy - hence a search warrant - to go into a purchased space aboard the train.)

 

[Guest]

Excellent point! A rose by any other name is still a rose!Reminds me of the old story about the ***** coming for people in the night and no-one cared until they came for them,and no-one was left to help! This is a classic case of abuse of police authority, hope lawyers in Reno need the business, this kind of crap needs to stop but so does the pot calling the kettle black!

 

[Alice]

Cross-country trip, one-way ticket ... Doesn't that describe a lot of us who purchase multiple one-way tickets so we can pick them up at the last minute?

 

[tp49]

Ok, so lets start this off on the right foot before everybody jumps on the 9-11 governemnt conspiracy BS. This is a very common occurance in Reno and it is NOT the Amtrak Police, but rather the Reno Police Dept. The are looking for people traffic drugs along the I-80 corridor and quite frequently (at least once a week) make a bust, a very substancial one at that. This has NOTHING to do with terriorism, but rather illegal drugs. The Reno Police will meet the train in Truckee or Winnamucca and go through the manifests looking for people who fit a certain criteria, I dont know what that criteria is. I would guess, and this is strickly a guess, but Orgin, Destination, how the ticket was paid for etc. A cross country trip, one way, paid cash, booked at the last minuete would likely set off a red flag so to speak. Once the officeres have determined who the passengers are, they interigate them in Reno. Will there be some that get questioned that are legit, yes it does happen, unfortionatly. They also are very professional and fast. In my expirences I have witnessed them have a K-9 board in Reno and the dog will be walked by a suspisus person or persons accomidations. If the dog alerts they will then search the person and their belongings for drugs. Othere instances the officers have simply asked said person if they would object to a search of their belongings for drugs, if the person objects they have a dog on site that can alert and give probable cause. Hope this helps to clear the situation up.

I'm sorry but something here doesn't seem to add up. From what I know, local police are severely restricted in policing instruments of interstate commerce, which is what Amtrak is. In particular, I doubt that a local Reno police force could board Amtrak in Winnemucca or Truckee, places outside of its jurisdiction, and troll through passenger manifests or anything else looking for drugs, stolen cash, or whatever. That would be akin to the Chicago police boarding a United Airlines plane in Los Angeles, bound for Chicago, and then sifting through the carry-ons of whichever passenger they suspected of whatever during the flight.

Now, a separate question is whether the Reno police, tipped to the probability of a passenger arriving in Reno on Amtrak being a drug courier, could board the train? Perhaps, given specific circumstances. But they still would need probable cause. For example, you can't stop someone on a highway based solely on profiling. The US Supreme Court has limited such searches only after someone has been stopped for a legitimate reason, such as speeding, and during the traffic stop there develops reasonable cause to suspect the driver is ferrying drugs.

It would be interesting if someone with a strong legal background on this site could address the allegations of the OP as to what may have happened in Reno.

My guess from my experience in these types of cases is that it's not Reno PD per se, it is most likely a multi-jurisdictional task force where Reno PD officers are either assigned to a task force working with numerous other state law enforcement agencies (Northern Nevada Narcotics Task Force is a possible name for a unit of this type) or it is a joint state/federal task force where local officers are assigned to work with DEA agents.

 

[the_traveler]

Cross-country trip, one-way ticket ... Doesn't that describe a lot of us who purchase multiple one-way tickets so we can pick them up at the last minute?

I think you're right on!

 

[rrdude]

Jeff: Glad you got some info, the hoodie thing should alert all of us not to wear one around the law ...

HAH, I will now go out and purchase a hoodie just to make the cops crazy, and give them the "come on, I dare ya" look.

AND.

I would have said "NO" to a search, shut the door, made them hold up the train and get a warrant. HAHAHAHAHA

(note: see, I can say these things because I was a cop for 20-years. A search must be on probable cause, and he had none. That is why he went with consent, which most people will agree to. Further, I would guess there IS an expectation of privacy - hence a search warrant - to go into a purchased space aboard the train.)

"Twin brothers from different mothers", I like your line of thinking!

 

[Ryan]

i don't have a problem if they want to check everyone but to single out one person without evidently any reason other than their clothing

Except for we have no idea why he was singled out (and aren't likely to). Also since he gave his consent, the search was OK by the Constitution. It would have been interesting to see what would had transpired had that consent not been given.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

So it's OK for the cops to hassle people who look to you to be hippies, dirty backpackers and/or Burning Man attendees, since you feel they might have drugs on them...but not OK for the cops to hassle you on appearance alone, because that's profiling. Um. Profiling others = OK, profiling you = bad? I wonder what the dirty backpackers like to call people like that. "Hypocrites" probably.

Quoted for truth. The OP takes a legitimate complaint against maltreatment by a police officer and then turns it into a mindless rant about the lack of abuse shown toward those he feels are below him.

 

[pennyk]

I am on the CZ right now and our next stop is Reno. I am wearing a black hoodie at this moment and I probably will when I get off the train for a fresh air break in Reno. I will be on alert for the hoodie seeking police. :lol:

(I do not look like a hippie, but I was one 40 years ago)

 

[Cho Cho Charlie]

I was the only one to whom this happened. If I wanted to be treated like a criminal I would have flown to California instead of taking the train.

I don't know if flying would help eliminate such an event.

Several years ago, I was flying with my, then, 3 yo grandson. I was pulled out of the security line for "random" additional screening (I guess people of Italian descent are now on their watch list).

The worse was that I had to leave my 3 yo grandson unattended and unsupervised, all alone, in the public terminal area while they brought me to a special room for a "pat down".

Yea, I know if you look at the TSA's website, they claim in a rather bold and highlight section that they would never separate children like this, but I can say such a claim is a total lie. They did it to me.

 

[Cho Cho Charlie]

HAH, I will now go out and purchase a hoodie just to make the cops crazy, and give them the "come on, I dare ya" look.

AND.

I would have said "NO" to a search, shut the door, made them hold up the train and get a warrant. HAHAHAHAHA

(note: see, I can say these things because I was a cop for 20-years. A search must be on probable cause, and he had none. That is why he went with consent, which most people will agree to. Further, I would guess there IS an expectation of privacy - hence a search warrant - to go into a purchased space aboard the train.)

While I agree you might be able to refuse the search, doesn't Amtrak have the right to remove you from the train because you refused? Once you resolved the issue, your train will be long gone.

If the room door isn't locked, is there really a valid expectation of privacy? I am no lawyer, nor do I play one on TV, but I wonder if the court rulings about allowing school locker searches applies here?

 

[AlanB]

If the room door isn't locked, is there really a valid expectation of privacy? I am no lawyer, nor do I play one on TV, but I wonder if the court rulings about allowing school locker searches applies here?

I'm no legal scholor, but I seriously doubt that the door being locked vs not changes anything.

And laws about school lockers would definately not apply here, if for no other reason than you are paying for the room and not for your school locker. There's probably a dozen other things that make them different too.

 

[FrankStar]

I'm on the train a comin'

It's rollin' 'round the bend,

And I ain't seen the sunshine,

Since, I don't know when,

But he shook me down in Reno,

Just to watch me cry,

When I hear that whistle blowin',

I hang my head and fly.

 

[OTownDog]

So it's OK for the cops to hassle people who look to you to be hippies, dirty backpackers and/or Burning Man attendees, since you feel they might have drugs on them...but not OK for the cops to hassle you on appearance alone, because that's profiling. Um. Profiling others = OK, profiling you = bad? I wonder what the dirty backpackers like to call people like that. "Hypocrites" probably.

Quoted for truth. The OP takes a legitimate complaint against maltreatment by a police officer and then turns it into a mindless rant about the lack of abuse shown toward those he feels are below him.

Where in my post did I say I felt that I was superior to these guys? I have MANY friends who fit the "hippy/dirty backpack" profile. These are wonderful people whom I consider to be my peers/equal, and most have at one point or another attended Burning Man. The thing here is, ALL of them use drugs recreationally, and have done so at Burning Man. It is a quasi-religious experience heightened by the use of marijuana and hallucinogens. If they wanted to find drugs, they would have found them had they searched two or three of these guys. I simply made a statement, I was not ranting about the lack of abuse toward them.

 

[tp49]

I would have said "NO" to a search, shut the door, made them hold up the train and get a warrant. HAHAHAHAHA

(note: see, I can say these things because I was a cop for 20-years. A search must be on probable cause, and he had none. That is why he went with consent, which most people will agree to. Further, I would guess there IS an expectation of privacy - hence a search warrant - to go into a purchased space aboard the train.)

I probably would have done exactly the same thing but left the door open just to keep them from trying to claim "exigent circumstances" and take the door down.