Amtrak potential service reduction due to staff shortage

[AmtrakBlue]

Denver has cancelled checked baggage service due to most of their staff having COVID19.

 

[joelkfla]

Another article:
https://about.bgov.com/news/amtrak-to-cut-2022-service-as-workforce-shrinks-on-shot-refusals/
I am a little confused. Amtrak says that the reason for the cuts is the vaccine mandate for federal contractors. But the courts have issued a nationwide suspension of the vaccine mandate. Is Amtrak going ahead with the mandate even if they are not (as of now) legally required to do so? Not taking a position on any of this... I am just trying to understand what is actually happening - or not happening.

I think it's prudent to proceed with planning just in case that injunction is reversed.

 

[jis]

Denver has cancelled checked baggage service due to most of their staff having COVID19.

It is conceivable that something like that could hit a crew base even in the total absence of any vaccine mandate and the net result would be same cancellations as for people quitting rather than getting vaccinated I suppose.

Airlines have faced such spot cancellations already due to unavailability of crew that are not actively COVID infected at a station at a given time.

There are way too many moving parts to all this and it is hard to make a cogent prediction I am afraid.

 

[amtrakpass]

I didn't read through all the threads if it has already been mentioned but in case Amtrak proceeds to cut only some routes and not others, remember they do have national seniority and if you are already a qualified conductor or Engineer, at the most would take about a month to qualify on new territory even in the most strict sense. Sometimes I think Amtrak likes to leave how long qualifying actually takes vague so they aren't held into account. And I don't know the exact Amtrak agreement but a standard railroad industry thing if you are on the list in one crew base and that gets cut where you can't hold a job(assignment) you have only so many days to place yourself at a different one. Amtrak can also pay a temporary transfer bonus and lodging costs to cover a short staff crew base too, which has been a standard railroad industry practice for generations. Anyway, I know the larger issue of vaccine mandates is subject to differences of opinion which I understand but I do think it would be unfortunate if Amtrak does not equally spread any service cuts across the board to all services so the impact will not be too severe on one route or the other when the moving around of train service employees to different locations around the country is historically common in the railroad industry

 

[Amtrak25]

How granular would they be ? Say hypothetically they are short T&E crews between Grand Jct and Salt Lake. Would they run the Zephyr daily as far as Denver or Grand Jct, tri-weekly beyond ?

If they are short only OBS crews, could they relocate and rotate some from the east coast to Chicago if they could spare them ?

 

[jis]

How granular would they be ? Say hypothetically they are short T&E crews between Grand Jct and Salt Lake. Would they run the Zephyr daily as far as Denver or Grand Jct, tri-weekly beyond ?

If they are short only OBS crews, could they relocate and rotate some from the east coast to Chicago if they could spare them ?

Naturally, no one outside the haloed halls of Amtrak knows what will happen, and I doubt things are fully worked out even within, beyond a bunch of contingency plans.

I think T&E outage is much harder to mitigate than OBS outage, since OBS do not require route familiarization. I suspect they do require equipment familiarization though.

 

[west point]

I have not seen the figures lately. At a period in the past about 5 - 10% of T & E persons transferred location every year. If that is still so then those routes that cannot support running a train might have some previously qualified T&E transfer to their previous location.

 

[dlagrua]

I don’t know if the Northeast corridor will ever be the same. Business travel and working in downtown offices along with corporate meetings might be a thing of the past. Or severely limited. It’s all meetings remotely now and for the foreseeable future. Those packed early morning trains to New York are now all empty.

IMO, the current Amtrak management is over focused on corridor trains. There is a big opportunity here to expand LD service but it rarely gets a mention and all we have seen are cutbacks. If management looks at Amtrak more as a National Network Railroad and less as a corridor operation, then they should be able to increase ridership but they will need to start marketing and advertising the service. As for the three day a week cutback; it is not conducive to our schedule. Prices have been out of reach for a while and availability was not there. As a result we did not take any trips on Amtrak in 2021 and this will probably continue in 2022. Hopefully by 2023 things will normalize and we will be riding the rails again.

 

[user 14106]

Im booked on the Empire Builder out of Seattle on 1/12 (Wednesday), which is one of the “off” days when it ran on tri-weekly schedules. What do you all think: am I safe or at risk of a cancellation?

Even if you are affected - they’ll try to re-accommodate you if you have the flexibility to do so as they’ll run a longer consist on the days they do run to try to accommodate people. If you choose that route they’ll rebook what you had on the closest date that works for you for no charge. They won’t just blast away and automatically cancel everyone who is booked on the off days. I think last time they sent out automatic phone calls and emails to those affected asking you to contact them - you can then either call or go to a station agent to assist you - either in fixing the trip or a refund. I think last time they even reserved space in the extra cars for re-accommodation and didn’t open all rooms and seats for sales until everyone was given a chance to either change their date or cancel. I might start thinking about the possibility and consider if you can flex your trip around the schedule and have a plan in place if your going to try to still make the trip regardless - probably safe to assume they’ll use the same schedule as before if it comes to pass so wouldn’t be a total waste to use that as a template for now but of course wait for official news to confirm your route is affected.

 

[Amtrakfflyer]

The fox is in the hen house or whatever the euphemism is. Im not denying we have a huge issue as a country and I don’t have the answers but it’s real hard to take anything Gardner says for fact when he’s lied and exaggerated to Congress concerning the viability of the long distance network in the past. The new Board and hopefully new management can’t come soon enough.

IMO, the current Amtrak management is over focused on corridor trains. There is a big opportunity here to expand LD service but it rarely gets a mention and all we have seen are cutbacks. If management looks at Amtrak more as a National Network Railroad and less as a corridor operation, then they should be able to increase ridership but they will need to start marketing and advertising the service. As for the three day a week cutback; it is not conducive to our schedule. Prices have been out of reach for a while and availability was not there. As a result we did not take any trips on Amtrak in 2021 and this will probably continue in 2022. Hopefully by 2023 things will normalize and we will be riding the rails again.

 

[pennyk]

MODERATOR NOTE: the title of this thread has been changed to more closely reflect the content of the discussion.

 

[PVD]

Many of the things necessary to provide service are delivered by contractors and if their ability to do that is diminished can seriously impact service. Something as simple as fuel. Food would be the same.... Repair parts and supplies....So even if Amtrak itself is not in the category, their ability to function could be seriously affected.

 

[west point]

Two points.
1. Gardner was lucky as he was able to avoid answering any question why no openings for T&E have been posted for any LD crew locations.
2. Railway age has come up with a proposed temporary solution by allowing some retired T&E employees to come back to work. Would require legislation by congress.

This proposal could work easily for Amtrak as engineers and conductors sped most of their time inside of the trains. However, I see problems as many very older conductors could not take the long periods of outside the loco running drop and pickup with the brake checks. Also, the broken into train examinations.

Amtrak could benefit quickly from retired freight engineers on various routes. Retired freight conductors maybe not so much but they certainly could be used as assistant conductors and learn the ropes with on-the-job experience.

Congress, Unions Can Cure Rail Worker Shortage - Railway Age

 

[neroden]

I think T&E outage is much harder to mitigate than OBS outage, since OBS do not require route familiarization.

The situation with assistant conductors and conductors means that ACs can be promoted to conductor and new hires with relatively little route familiarization can become ACs. So really the biggest practical problem given a little lead time is the engineers. (Which is a big problem.)

 

[neroden]

Two points.
1. Gardner was lucky as he was able to avoid answering any question why no openings for T&E have been posted for any LD crew locations.

People definitely have seen some openings posted at such locations, but not at all the locations I would have expected if there are "shortages"

 

[neroden]

It is also possible that there are very few cancellations because staffing can be squeezed out from among those who have vaccinated. As it stands it appears that the greatest danger of cancellations are for trains that depend on staffing points with small boards, i.e. Western LD trains, if it comes to that.

I was poking through the list of staffing points, and it looked like the Crescent had some pretty small-board "just the Crescent" staffing points too. And in areas with very low vaccination rates.

 

[west point]

I was poking through the list of staffing points, and it looked like the Crescent had some pretty small-board "just the Crescent" staffing points too. And in areas with very low vaccination rates.

The big problem with the Crescent IMO is the Meridian crew base. It covers both MEI <> NOL and MEI <> ATL. Too late into NOL then NOL departure delayed. That is the reason Crescent had to be scheduled later than the previous 0700 departure. That delay has caused the ATL departure of #20 to become very inconvenient at a scheduled 2359, Then if #20 is very late then #19 of the next day can be late leaving ATL at its scheduled 0900 departure. IMO time to change back to maybe a 0600 departure from NOL.

That means Crescent moving crews to NOL and ATL. Another Gardener solution that just became bad.?

 

[Willbridge]

A couple of problems with hiring experienced T&E employees from freight backgrounds:

• When the Denver commuter rail lines opened some of the hires came from freight railways. They had difficulty keeping on schedule as compared to those who had been light rail operators. I don't know the number but some went back to freight employment.
• When I was volunteering on Denver's Platte Valley [diesel-electric] streetcar we had a couple of freight railway operating employees who volunteered. One of them was so foul-mouthed that he had to be asked to un-volunteer.

These problems can be worked out but that takes time.

 

[WWW]

WSPA Spartanburg
Amtrak says it could cut service over vaccination mandate
The Associated Press - 8h ago

Article copyrighted could not copy - - -

The gist of the article -
Unless crews get vaccinated - routes and crew staffing MAY be reduced - until perhaps March 2022


Link to more on this (FOX):
Amtrak likely to cut services over federal vaccine mandate, executive says | Fox Business

 

[jis]

Amtrak gave some more details of the possible service reduction timelines

https://railpassengers.org/happenin...cybk9SolXTBXTzLOci7gPy9lS-wQUiCl1L92W6xngJHZ8

 

[fillyjonk]

it WOULD be helpful if those of us traveling in January could like be NOTIFIED so we could PLAN if we are affected. I get that they might not know yet but I have a job I have to get back to and I am not wanting to reticket to return EARLIER than planned just in case. (I would be traveling on the 4th through the 5th)

Really hoping this doesn't wind up as bustitutions for people. Not sure they could find enough vaccinated drivers but who knows. I hate all of this so much. I hate that we are heading into Year 3 of large life disruptions for a lot of people

 

[HammerJack]

There is still a lot of “if we” or “may” verbiage in these statements, so it may end up that nothing gets cut.
Still, it’s not a great look for Amtrak considering the bill that just passed. Here’s a bunch of taypayer money, and the first thing that happens are service cuts.

 

[jis]

According to the RPA article, we may know quite a bit more specifics within a week.

 

[joelkfla]

When the Denver commuter rail lines opened some of the hires came from freight railways. They had difficulty keeping on schedule as compared to those who had been light rail operators. I don't know the number but some went back to freight employment.

I'm curious as to why.

Did they just like to run below the speed limit? Were they overly cautious about curves & switches? Chronically late for work?

 

[BigRedEO]

I would like to know as well. I'm on the Zephyr and LSL Jan 7th - 10th. Taking my nephew, who has never been on a train before. And if they change that when we both need to be back to work by a certain date...