Amtrak Service Reductions

[Seaboard92]

I sent my displeasure straight to the man whom we all believe is the mastermind of this Mr. Stephen Gardner. I am happy to help others who would like to send your messages directly to him.

 

[uncleboots]

I called Amtrak Reservations around 1PM Central June 18th. I asked them if they could give me the 3 trains per week schedule for the Coast Starlight and the Empire Builder after October 1. The Lady told me that she has not been told of any service being cut to 3 days a week and Amtrak's Web Site is showing Daily Service after October for the Coast Starlight, the Southwest Chief and the Empire Builder. Does anyone have any info as to what's actually going on.

 

[TinCan782]

I called Amtrak Reservations around 1PM Central June 18th. I asked them if they could give me the 3 trains per week schedule for the Coast Starlight and the Empire Builder after October 1. The Lady told me that she has not been told of any service being cut to 3 days a week and Amtrak's Web Site is showing Daily Service after October for the Coast Starlight, the Southwest Chief and the Empire Builder. Does anyone have any info as to what's actually going on.

I've been looking at some October fares via AmSnag ( AmSnag Verson 2.02 ) and it shows fares for every day of the month. If the schedule reduction is gonna happen, its not yet in the "system".

 

[Palmland]

Perhaps Amtrak is hedging their bets. Maybe they want to see how strong bookings are before reducing service and changing reservations to a reduced frequency schedule. Or, more likely, it could just be one hand not knowing what the other is doing.

 

[toddinde]

It's been decided by Amtrak that LD trains will operate only 3X per week, effective October 1.

There are, however, two trains that will operate 4X per week: the Silver Metoer and the Auto Train. That gives stations between Petersburg VA and Miami daily service.

Increases in service will be implemented in the future as demand for riding returns.

Auto Train remains daily. The Meteor and Palmetto alternate. While Amtrak has decided, Congress can make them undecide. Call your congressional representatives.

 

[Bob Dylan]

God forbid your scenario occurs! Can you imagine the chaos that would take place in this Country!

Happened once before, it was called "The Civil War" by the North and Historians and "The War of Northern Aggression" by the Traitorous Confederacy!

 

[fdaley]

It seems far smarter, at least for a short-term solution, to significantly scale back on-board services and run a bare-bones but daily operation. Remove most services from the sleeper cars and treat it closer to "coach-with-a-bed" in terms of amenities given, remove the dining car temporarily, and have food service handled by the cafe car.

As a formerly frequent sleeper traveler, it seems to me that Amtrak's management had already turned sleeper service into "coach with a bed," at least on the eastern trains, before the pandemic hit. With the advent of "contemporary" boxed meals, the dining cars are no longer used for cooking, nor do they offer table service, so they might as well not be there. And nearly every other smaller perk of sleeper travel from past years -- a daily newspaper, route guides, even a printed schedule -- is no longer offered. On every Viewliner trip of the past couple of years, the SCA gave me my threadbare blue blankets in their plastic wrapping, leaving me to remake the beds myself. But the price for the so-called "first class" sleeper experience still starts at $300 a night for a roomette or $550 or better for a bedroom. The end of dining service was the last straw for me and left me staying home a lot more often. Now, with travel including the risk of encountering a potentially deadly virus, I double don't want to go.

So, I completely agree in principle that anything less than daily service is a terrible idea, because the financial savings will be far more than offset by the reduction in usefulness of trains to travelers. But I don't really have any confidence that, if the current board and management of Amtrak remain in place, the onboard experience will ever be restored to a level I'd want to use myself or recommend to anyone else, no matter how often the trains run.

 

[Old MM]

1) That's not true. There's a ~20% service reduction on the NEC.
2) The NEC is about the only part of the Amtrak system in which passenger rail has a significant market share. Anderson's goal to build up <500 mi corridor service (which I would take to mean making other corridors more like the NEC and increasing the number of corridors) was probably a rational approach.
3) The only reason the national network exists is to provide pork-barrel spending in a larger number of more rural states. Our political system is such that legislators from rural states tend to call the shots, so providing service to rural areas is a political necessity for support for the more rational parts of the system. After all, adequate passenger service from rural towns could be provided much more cheaply (and to more locations) by funding a network of motor coach lines that connect to regional airports and corridor service stations.
4) Sleeping car and dining car service is provided on the long distance trains solely as a way to cross subsidize the service by increasing net revenue. Thus, the cost of providing the service needs to be a lot less than the additional revenue. (That's probably why sleeper fares are so high and OBS staffing is inadequate.)
5) I have priced trips on privately run excursion trains that claim to provide full traditional service (i.e. fresh cooked meals, fancy lounge service, attentive SCA's, etc.) The prices are far higher than even the highest bucket Amtrak sleeper fare for an equivalent trip. Let's face it, times have changed. White-glove service is going to cost you, and most of us probably can't afford it anymore.
6) With all that, Congress has previously expressed support for the full Amtrak network. Thus, while it may be appropriate right now to not spew out pointless greenhouse gas emissions by running empty trains, I suspect than as demand increases, most of the service will eventually be restored.

God I hope you are right

 

[Devil's Advocate]

As a formerly frequent sleeper traveler, it seems to me that Amtrak's management had already turned sleeper service into "coach with a bed," at least on the eastern trains, before the pandemic hit.

If Amtrak priced and marketed their sleepers closer to the actual onboard experience it might not seem so insulting, but paying hundreds or thousands more for "coach with a bed" feels like a ripoff to me. In my opinion Amtrak staff treat coach passengers like freight and the more sleeper service emulates coach the worse it's going to get. Like you I have little faith any of this is coming back under the current administration unless it is forced upon them. I do believe that it's better to have daily trains than intermittent trains but I also think it's important to remember that many who comment on sleepers don't actually use them on a regular basis and thus have little or no skin in the game when they repeatedly volunteer to give away every service and amenity on someone else's behalf.

 

[Amtrakfflyer]

https://trn.trains.com/news/news-wi...r-almost-all-long-distance-trains-as-of-oct-1
As expected Amtrak’s own numbers don’t justify the network cuts at least as drastic as they propose. The June numbers should be even better.

“While ridership and revenue remains suppressed because of the pandemic, long-distance ticket revenues climbed 71%, from $6.8 million to $11.6 million, between April and May. Operating with approximately the same frequencies, Northeast Corridor billing rose about 60% from $1.5 million to $2.4 million, and state supported trains generated less than a 50% increase, from $2.3 million in April to $3.5 million in May. So existing long-distance service, mostly operating seven days a week, provided almost double the May revenue of Corridor and state-supported operations.”

 

[cocojacoby]

All I can say is wow! The board that is running Amtrak has no idea how to build ridership. LD 3X wk cannot and will not work. Ridership will only return if services and full amenities are restored. Amtrak needs to attract ridership not discourage it. If the dining cars are permanently gone then there is no incentive for us to spend big bucks on the sleepers to ride the service. It will be back to the road.

Yeah but what if the ridership just isn't there? Running mostly empty trains isn't very smart is it?

 

[brianpmcdonnell17]

Yeah but what if the ridership just isn't there? Running mostly empty trains isn't very smart is it?

Trains will very likely be more empty after the change than before it. While it MAY be able to reduce losses, the subsidy per passenger will go way up.

 

[John Bredin]

Yeah but what if the ridership just isn't there? Running mostly empty trains isn't very smart is it?

That would be an argument for slashing service two or three months back when many people couldn't travel, or even possibly now when travel demand is still very low (IIRC, much of California is still under strict shelter-at-home orders) but IMHO not in October when, knock on wood, travel demand will have started recovering.

Some of the most severe (and IMHO reasonable) slashing of Amtrak corridor service during the strictest stay-at-home orders -- no Acelas, no Hiawathas, no Downeasters, no Keystones or Pennsylvanian -- have been and are being walked back with partial restoration of service. Running daily long-distance trains during that period but then slashing LD service in October becomes even more bizarre in comparison.

As to running mostly empty trains, transit providers keep lightly-used bus and train runs as a cost of maintaining a scheduled headway (e.g. 15 minute buses, or hourly trains) that the riding public expects. They run a half-empty 10am train so that people who usually take the full 8am train can rely that there'll be a train every hour. So potential riders don't have to choose between memorizing gaps in the schedule and conforming their lives to them, or saying f'it it's easier to just drive.

Same with Amtrak corridor service. I doubt every Acela or Keystone or Hiawatha has the ridership of the busy rush-hour runs, but cutting one lightly-traveled run in hopes of driving passengers to fill the preceding or following run would create a schedule gap that would discourage some passengers from choosing the train altogether.

Daily LD service is also the same. Nobody planning their travel has to think if today is a train day in their town, or they'll have to wait a day (or two!) to travel, if every day is a train day. Because if they do have to fit their lives to a 3-times-weekly Amtrak schedule, many will say f'it, it's easier to just drive.

 

[the_traveler]

I just got a response from my Congresscritter to my “request” regarding the cuts to Amtrak.

In the form letter email, it mentions 1) COVID-19, 2) CARES and 3) PPP. What do these have to do with Amtrak? It’s very clear it was not even looked at!

 

[Dakota 400]

I just got a response from my Congresscritter to my “request” regarding the cuts to Amtrak.

In the form letter email, it mentions 1) COVID-19, 2) CARES and 3) PPP. What do these have to do with Amtrak? It’s very clear it was not even looked at!

That's the kind of nonsense I get from the Junior Senator from Ohio. I wrote an e-mail objecting to the firing of the Captain of the USS Theodore Roosevelt. In "his" e-mail reply, I learn about some piece of legislation that he is promoting. My opinion: doing such is insulting.

 

[Bob Dylan]

That's the kind of nonsense I get from the Junior Senator from Ohio. I wrote an e-mail objecting to the firing of the Captain of the USS Theodore Roosevelt. In "his" e-mail reply, I learn about some piece of legislation that he is promoting. My opinion: doing such is insulting.

These form letters and emails are written by staffers!

Unless the Member knows you personally, ie you give them campaign contributions,they probably dont have a clue what you wrote about.

When Lyndon Johnson was a Rep and Senator, he personally signed every letter that went out from his office, and he had a 2 day Rule, all Letters,Telegrams and Phone calls were to be answered within 2 days of receipt.

 

[railiner]

I am hearing from many, that emailing or writing our elected officials to protest this threatened cut in service, is pretty much a wasted effort...that the letter's, are either ignored, or answered with some form letter, that often is totally unrelated to the subject at hand.

What then would be the more effective way of getting the message across? A large protest rally?

 

[Devil's Advocate]

I am hearing from many, that emailing or writing our elected officials to protest this threatened cut in service, is pretty much a wasted effort...that the letter's, are either ignored, or answered with some form letter, that often is totally unrelated to the subject at hand. What then would be the more effective way of getting the message across? A large protest rally?

Love or hate them the rank and file NRA membership writes and calls anytime there's even a whiff of change in the air. Not once or twice but over and over again until they hear something that placates them. Do the people that think letters and phone calls are a waste of time also believe groups like the NRA are powerless to influence policy? Rallies are good if you have a large group who can agree to meet at the same time and place but that's usually something that happens after you've laid more groundwork than we have. You can still call and ask to meet and discuss your concerns in person. Initial attempts are likely to fail but repeated attempts can reach office staff who will take notes and pass along your concerns. Call-in radio programs and op-ed articles can also get attention. The only option that I consider useless is snail mail, mainly because the safety scanning process is likely to delay it so long it won't arrive until after any pending action. If we didn't spend our time trying dissuade each other from taking action we could be just as thorny and effective as any other special interest group.

 

[AmtrakFlyer]

My suggestion call a local office of the Senator or Rep in your city or one close by if your city doesn’t have one. Don’t even mess with their DC office. In a nice way explain your upset you wrote a email about an issue and it was ignored and you received a form letter that had nothing to do with your issue. Just explain your disappointed they don’t take emails seriously.

That approach has opened doors for me with all three of my members of Congress. Within 36 hours after making a phone call to my local offices I unexpectedly received calls from two of the members staffers in DC. The specific staffers that deal with transportation/ Amtrak and have sat through meetings with Gardner and other Amtrak management. These are the people that do the real behind the scenes work on the issues and crafting bills. I have their personal work emails and have maintained contact with them. Even the third member (a senator) who didn’t have someone call has sent personalized responses to my emails since then. At one point in our correspondences they said Congress will have the final say as a safety net but suggested I start writing Amtrak’s board as well. I posted that letter from them here last year.

I really think phone calls to local offices are the way to go they’re more personalized as I’ve stated above but just as importantly your message gets in the computer system ASAP. Time is of the essence.

 

[Ferroequinologist]

I think it will be interesting to see how ridership changes based on a reduced service frequency. I don't see it increasing, that's for sure. While people who take the train are perhaps less time-sensitive than those who fly they still probably don't have the sort of flexibility in their schedule that aligns nicely with a thrice weekly service. My train travel tends to be a vacation in itself so I am less fussed about whether I travel on a Saturday or a Tuesday for example but I can well imagine that for others it will become a bigger issue, leading them to abandon Amtrak and consider bus / car / plane as an alternative.

I have a trip on the CZ booked for September which is perhaps good timing. I do hope that the normal dining car service has been restored by then as I definitely don't fancy more TV dinner style meals.

I just got a response from my Congresscritter to my “request” regarding the cuts to Amtrak.

In the form letter email, it mentions 1) COVID-19, 2) CARES and 3) PPP. What do these have to do with Amtrak? It’s very clear it was not even looked at!

I've had the same experience many times. They don't read the letters and you can no longer even get someone on the phone.

 

[John Bredin]

I am hearing from many, that emailing or writing our elected officials to protest this threatened cut in service, is pretty much a wasted effort...that the letter's, are either ignored, or answered with some form letter, that often is totally unrelated to the subject at hand.

What then would be the more effective way of getting the message across? A large protest rally?

Don't get discouraged from writing to or calling your congressperson just because some people aren't getting responsive answers to their emails, letters, etc.

Firstly, just because some congresspeople are politically inclined against Amtrak or apathetic about it, and thus don't respond at all or give a vague and unresponsive reply, doesn't mean they all are. One of my senators has sent a responsive email to pretty much every email I've sent regarding Amtrak ... and most of the other issues I've written him about.

More importantly, I was told repeatedly by a non-profit lobbyist* that even legislators who don't personally care about a particular issue and don't send a responsive answer do keep track of the sheer number messages they get on an issue, assigning some staffer to keep a tally of them. If they get enough, they presume for each constituent who bothers to write or call there must be more constituents who agree but don't bother. The lobbyist called it the cockroach theory: for each one you see, there must be hundreds you don't.

*Working for non-profits, he had to work the glad-hand and shoe-leather at the state capitol when the assembly was in session. No $ for bribes.

 

[DryCreek]

Back to the topic:

Does anyone have any idea how this will affect the Texas Eagle/Sunset Limited and their connections?
What about the Heartland Flyer? It pretty much relies on daily service for connecting passengers.

For a quick two or three day getaway, we enjoy hopping on the TE north to FTW, and spending the afternoon at Sunset Square before boarding the HF to OK City for an arrival at bedtime (walk to hotel, across the street).

Making the connecting TE less-than-daily kinda' fudges up that plan.

Would they just delete the 21/22 trains and only run 421/422 instead?

 

[AmtrakFlyer]

Unfortunately Amtrak exists because of politics. Without the great bipartisan blowback by Congress against Anderson the last 3 years Amtrak as we know it would already not exist. It’s a fact Trump wants the network defunded. It’s a fact the Republican held senate voted 94/6 to keep the network intact.

We all have our political views and yes we should try to keep them in check for the purposes of this forum. Amtrak politics are genuinely interesting because it’s one of the few issues with bipartisan support and in a lot of ways has no rhyme or reason.

Yes there are bad players in the game submitting near zero budget requests that want to see Amtrak fail. Other players in the game want to robustly fund the system for years to come. It’s all things we should and need to talk about in as civil a way as possible.

 

[west point]

If the Sunset keeps its present days the Eagle will probably match those days otherwise we will know that Amtrak is trying to kill LD service.

 

[mitako]

I just got a response from my Congresscritter to my “request” regarding the cuts to Amtrak.

In the form letter email, it mentions 1) COVID-19, 2) CARES and 3) PPP. What do these have to do with Amtrak? It’s very clear it was not even looked at!

Maybe you are in California like me, because I got a similar email from Diane Feinstein's office. Of course, that was better than the canned reply from Kamala Harris's office, which didn't even mention Amtrak, just response to COVID.