Amtrak taking first step on Meridian Speedway LD service

[jphjaxfl]

would this have been a connecting train, or a bus?

The Asheville train was a train that connected with the Piedmont in Salisbury. I rode the Piedmont in 1972 and there were quite a few passengers getting off at Salisbury to connect to Asheville.

 

[cirdan]

does the Crescent's current route west/south of Atlanta (the former Southerner route) have enough traffic to support a 2nd daily frequency between Atlanta and Birmingham?

If I wanted to prove the point that adding frequencies grows ridership, I would not be pushing for the first such route to be a marginal one with questionable potential, but i would be advocating for it to be demonstrated on a route that is already doing well and on which trains are already regularly fully booked, and thus success would be more or less a foregone conclusion. Then as the measure's success spoke for itself, I would cascade the idea onto lesser routes, and so on, and see how far it can go.

 

[Anderson]

If I wanted to prove the point that adding frequencies grows ridership, I would not be pushing for the first such route to be a marginal one with questionable potential, but i would be advocating for it to be demonstrated on a route that is already doing well and on which trains are already regularly fully booked, and thus success would be more or less a foregone conclusion. Then as the measure's success spoke for itself, I would cascade the idea onto lesser routes, and so on, and see how far it can go.

I'd make two other points here:
(1) Depending on timing, there are some city pairs that aren't great right now that could be improved upon (e.g. Atlanta eastbound is almost at midnight these days, SC and Charlotte are in the middle of the night both ways, and Greensboro is lousy southbound).
(2) There's also the option of running a second train via Richmond/Raleigh instead of via Charlottesville, which would add a stack of city-pair markets (and probably ease theoretical traffic to/from Florida).

 

[Steve4031]

Imho the Crescent schedule could be shifted for an overnight between New Orleans and Atlanta and then daylight to New York City. The section from Fort Worth could be scheduled to arrive in Atlanta at about 8 pm and the run overnight to on the Crescent’s old schedule.

 

[jis]

Imho the Crescent schedule could be shifted for an overnight between New Orleans and Atlanta and then daylight to New York City. The section from Fort Worth could be scheduled to arrive in Atlanta at about 8 pm and the run overnight to on the Crescent’s old schedule.

Crescent takes 18 hours from Atlanta to New York, which cannot be done all in waking hours. Washington can be done if departing Atlanta at or about 7am, arriving in DC around 9pm.

 

[Steve4031]

Jis, you are correct. I don't know if there is an ideal schedule for this route. Someone is going to take a hit.

 

[jis]

Jis, you are correct. I don't know if there is an ideal schedule for this route. Someone is going to take a hit.

I know, but New York taking the hit may not be the most prudent choice.

One possibility is to make it a nice leisurely overnight train between late evening in DC and early morning in NY, but that has added complications with staffing perhaps as it now becomes a two niter service. If it must be a two niter maybe the better choice would be the FTW train since it has to be a two niter anyway perhaps.

 

[Steve4031]

Jis, I was not suggesting NYC take the hit, I was intending to back off of my original suggestion. I had thought about suggesting that the Crescent assume the Night Owl slot but I am not sure that Boston would be able to service the train properly.

 

[toddinde]

I'd make two other points here:
(1) Depending on timing, there are some city pairs that aren't great right now that could be improved upon (e.g. Atlanta eastbound is almost at midnight these days, SC and Charlotte are in the middle of the night both ways, and Greensboro is lousy southbound).
(2) There's also the option of running a second train via Richmond/Raleigh instead of via Charlottesville, which would add a stack of city-pair markets (and probably ease theoretical traffic to/from Florida).

That’s a great idea. A day train from Atlanta north is an outstanding idea, especially routed through Raleigh.

 

[toddinde]

Apparently Amtrak is seeking funding to institute LD service on the Meridian Speedway …

https://www.trains.com/trn/news-rev...nsion-of-crescent-section-to-dallas-ft-worth/

This makes great sense. All Aboard Arizona recommended this its submission to the FRA’s long distance train study in conjunction with a new section of the Texas Eagle running west through Midland and Odessa joining the Sunset Route at El Paso and then on to Arizona and Los Angeles.

 

[jiml]

Jis, I was not suggesting NYC take the hit, I was intending to back off of my original suggestion. I had thought about suggesting that the Crescent assume the Night Owl slot but I am not sure that Boston would be able to service the train properly.

When I read your original post on this my first thought was replacing the "Night Owl" (or whatever it's called these days), so you're not the only one seeing the potential. Your point about servicing is well-taken however.

 

[Anderson]

That’s a great idea. A day train from Atlanta north is an outstanding idea, especially routed through Raleigh.

I like the idea of a day train. I'd note that, per the SEHSR study [1], NYP-CLT runtime should be down to about ten hours. The report notes a runtime of 10:15, but the report is old enough that I doubt it includes the probability of not having to swap locomotives in DC...so call it ten hours even. WAS-CLT comes in at 7:14. Atlanta probably adds another five-six hours these days...so 15-16 hours NYP-ATL and 12-13 hours WAS-ATL is probably an achievable goal. The NYP-ATL time is on par with the Palmetto - the biggest risk there is not having onward connections at NYP. Extending west, Meridian is about another eight hours (timezone crossing alert!), and Dallas probably another 10 or so from there, so the "overnight segment" would be roughly Jackson, MS-Atlanta, GA and you'd have a...mid-to-late morning departure from Dallas/Fort Worth? Let me see...
11 PM arrival NYP departure 7 AM
8 PM arrival WAS departure 10 AM
1 PM arrival CLT departure 5 PM
7 AM arrival ATL departure 11 PM
10 PM arrival MEI departure 6 AM
12 PM departure DAL arrival 4 PM
11 AM departure FTW arrival 5 PM

The other option that comes to mind would be a train arriving in NYC in...you know, the morning? I'm thinking something like 0915-0930 into NYP, which would "back up" to arrive in DC around 0600 (give or take). That'd miss NYC rush hour (which is a major priority) and avoid hitting DC /too/ insanely early (honestly, if the train is "on time" my suggestion would be for Amtrak to offer sleeper pax breakfast at Au Bon Pain - if I buy the accounting cost of breakfast on board, a $20-25 credit wouldn't be a stretch). Notably, looking at the 10-ish hour run CLT-NYP and backing up from 9 AM gets...11 PM for Charlotte and 5-6 PM for Atlanta. Backing up further, you've got about 8:30 AM in Meridian...and about 10:30 PM from Dallas (Dallas seems to be around 500 miles from Meridian via car [not sure on rail miles], so if you average 50 MPH that'd put you into Dallas about 10 hours earlier). Spinning that around, I think you could make an 8 PM-ish departure from New York (so, around 11 PM in Washington) work. That would put you into Charlotte around 6 AM (you might let this ride a hair later if needed) and Atlanta around 11 AM or noon. I'm not quite sure where this would put you vis-a-vis Dallas - you'd hit Meridian, MS around 7 PM (timezones again) and Dallas at 0500.

So that would probably need some fiddling (maybe you push the whole thing back an hour and just accept DC being right before midnight, or pad out the run to Dallas by an hour or so?), but it's at least within some distance of looking workable.

[1] https://connect.ncdot.gov/resources/Rail-Division-Resources/Documents/2015 SEHSR FEIS - Chapter 1.pdf

 

[west point]

There are some misconceptions including myself. Here are some facts.
1. The meridian speedway is only a partnership from Meridian - Shreveport. The KCS to Wylie intermodal is not part of the speedway. KCS runs the usually just 1 intermodal as an interchange train to / from Wylie. (Source STB report)
2. Not clear other IMs go UP to Marshall & west toward DAL (STB)
3. Even though speedway has been improved some sidings are now too short for Monster intermodals at times NS sends to KCS westbound (STB). No problem eastbound (STB).
4. The KCS Shreveport - Wylie - DAL route is a very inferior route as compared to the SHE - Marshall - DAL UP route.

Now comes the fun.
5. The Texacan Crescent would leave NYP at 1215 following present Crescent 2 hours earlier. WAS 1630, CLT 0140, ATL 0730 = Great arrival time, Meridian 1540. Then leave Meridian for Jakson, Vicksburg, Shreveport. The IC times for MEI - SHE was ten hours 40 minutes (SOU / IC timetable) so arrive SHE 0240 hours,

5a. Stub train to NOL from MEI. As well this would give probable connections to the north bound CNO at Jackson from MOB & NOL

6. T&P timetable time SHE - Marshall 55 minutes so arrival Marshall. ~~0400. If UP balks SHE - MHL - DAL then KCS to Jefferson and combine with Eagle. So the biggest problem is going to be getting UP to allow another train SHE - MHL - DAL. FTW would be TRE.

7. The Crescent would be rescheduled to leave NYP 2300 go WAS - RVR - Raleigh - CLT - ATL as a day train. Leave ATL no later than 2100 and be night train to NOL,

8. If Texacan proves as popular as some believe stub another train off new Crescent from MEI - DAL.

There as you can see that there are many possibilities of how the service can be run. The night run ATL - NOL would eliminate the loss of service due to NS jan - FEB of each year. Then of course there would also be the possibility of returning Crescent to ATL - Montgomery - MOB - NOL. The above give connections all way to LAX on Eagle / Sunsets. I used IC, T&P, and Eagle timetables for times.

Another point is maybe the present northbound #20 Crescent time will be changed to earlier maybe even +0615 which would allow an 2040 ATL departure.hat is because Amtrak is establishing a NOL crew base.

 

[jis]

While it is great to dream about whatever one chooses, it should be noted that the current grant request according to the article is about:

.... a study of track and station improvements necessary to extend a section of the New York-New Orleans Crescent between Meridian, Miss., and Fort Worth, Texas.

It is not about a separate train.

 

[rwb1122]

Wasn’t there a proposal in the 1990s for this route called the Magnolia States? It almost happened, but the failure of a postal contract was the stated reason for the tabling of the proposed route. I sincerely hope that this goes through this time.

 

[Palmland]

Trains' Newswire from a few days ago:

CPKC/CSX new Meridian Route

"Canadian Pacific Kansas City and CSX Transportation will create a direct interchange in Alabama by acquiring Genesee & Wyoming short line Meridian & Bigbee Railroad, which reaches CPKC at Meridian, Miss., and CSX just outside of Montgomery, Ala.


The deal, announced today, will create a new through route linking Texas and Mexico with the Southeast and vastly improve CSX’s access to Mexico via CPKC.........This strategic acquisition will bring more shipping options to intermodal, automotive, and other customers by providing a new, efficient corridor connecting expanding markets in Mexico, Texas and the U.S. Southeast,” CPKC CEO Keith Creel said.

This appears to be a smart move for CSX and CPKC that cuts out the current short line in the route. Although if freight traffic increases as a result it may make it more difficult for Amtrak to initiate the Crescent Star even though this portion of the route would not handle it directly. But, given Amtrak's equipment shortage it would probably have to wait for the new LD equipment to be delivered anyway. At least CPKC seems more receptive to supporting Amtrak service. We'll see if that was just happy talk to get the merger approved.