Amtrak Train 91-CSX collision in SC (2/4/18)/Liability issues

[user 1215]

Seems like every few days there are more "facts" released or discovered that change how we visualize what happened. None of us are patient, so we all try to find our own solution, which is usually wrong when more facts are released. Of course the ambulance chasing lawyers have already made their conclusions so they can sign up as many victims as possible. Only the NTSB probably knows what happened, but they are still investigating, so correctly, they release very little information.

Honestly, I am currently most interested in what the CSX crew that lined and locked the switch told the NTSB and the timeline of that crew and the new crew.
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[Bierboy]

As much as I respect Lester Holt on NBC Nightly News, this evening NBC's reporting on this tragedy seemed to me to point the finger of responsibility at Amtrak. I would classify this "reporting" as "incomplete news". Like others, I want to see the NTSB report to determine what happened and where responsibility lies. For me, at this time, CSX seems to be the responsible culprit.

And as much as I totally disagree about your opinion of Holt, I will say this -- all he does is read the crap that is put before him. Don't entirely blame him; point the finger where it belongs...

Lester Holt is a teleprompter reader, and he does his job enthusiastically. And he reads what's written for him as if he actually believes it, as go the others.

National News in just 20 minutes or so plus commercials... That's not "News" ... That's Entertainment !!

Almost every reporter on National Television has a script. I think that Holt reads a script, but will do actual reporting, and won't debase himself for mere ratings.

Dream on...

 

[brianpmcdonnell17]

I rode by the crash site on 91 (19) and it looked to be essentially back to normal. There was no visible wreckage and the same auto rack train involved in the accident was there again. It must be weird for the crews of both trains to imagine what happened there only a few weeks ago.

 

[Ziv]

Just noticed that of the 4 pinned topics on this index (leaving "Just the facts" out for obvious reasons) the freshest topic had a post at noon today, the second freshest topic had a post yesterday and the third and fourth freshest topics had their most recent comment on 2/15. It really seems like posting is down and it may be because it just seems like there has been so much tragic news interspersed with merely bad news. I hope Amtrak recovers its mojo relatively quickly.

 

[MikefromCrete]

Well, we're awaiting the NTSB's report on the CSX accident, nothing new seems to be coming out about the Siemens car order, the Talgos are back at Beech Grove and the next diners will be along in a couple of days. If nothing is happening, not much to talk about.

 

[AmtrakLKL]

There is a CSX signal suspension planned south of Columbia on Monday and Tuesday, Feb 26 & 27. The Silver Star will now detour between Savannah and Hamlet via the Andrews Sub on these two days skipping Camden, Columbia and Denmark. No alternate transportation will be provided.

Will be interesting to see what happens for signal suspensions now that have no detour route available.

 

[Agent]

Here's a photograph of what's said to be AMTK 162 showing it has been dedicated to the memory of engineer M. Kempf.

 

[Walt]

Here's a photograph of what's said to be AMTK 162 showing it has been dedicated to the memory of engineer M. Kempf.

While I appreciate and support the sentiment, it looks more like a "kill marking" to me, like those found on a fighter jet.

 

[Dutchrailnut]

Preliminary report from NTSB.

https://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/AccidentReports/Reports/RRD18MR003-prelim.pdf

 

[Ryan]

Don’t think that there is anything new in there.

 

[Dutchrailnut]

correct it basically says same as second video of NTSB, but still nothing on the CSX crew on were they there ?? who threw switch, who reported it back etc .

 

[Paul CHI]

Read somewhere in the news this week that Amtrak has a basic no fault agreement with the host railroads, so even where negligence is present, Amtrak carries the liability.

 

[mfastx]

Read somewhere in the news this week that Amtrak has a basic no fault agreement with the host railroads, so even where negligence is present, Amtrak carries the liability.

Can confirm that is correct.

 

[neroden]

The courts ruled that *gross* negligence liability *cannot* be transferred, so if Amtrak proved *gross* negligence, CSX would have to pay up. Amtrak has not tended to stand up for itself in the past -- but Anderson might be different.

This looks like gross negligence to me; there are an entire set of rules specifically to prevent crashes like this and someone wilfully broke the rules by lying about the state of the switch on a federal form. Reckless disregard for human life.

 

[west point]

ProbablywillnothappenbutCongressmightchangethelawbasedongrossnegligence?

Note the above is an intermittent problem with this web site.

EDIT does not repeat

Probably it will not happen but Congress might change the law based on gross negligence ?

 

[Just-Thinking-51]

Not in this case. Only two crew was killed. Congress only acts when there a much bigger out rage.(death toll) Think Metrolink and PTC, or 180 derailment on the curve that increase the liability amounts.

CSX should make Amtrak whole, but negligence finding in a courtroom? Not in the cards. Would be nice if could. Two people were killed for the lack of following protocol.

 

[Seaboard92]

And the cars have been released from Cayce. I was working an adoption event for my moms No-Kill Animal Shelter at a trackside petsmart and saw them go north with a little help from a friend.

Consist is

Amtk 23 P42DC

Amtk 43383 Amfleet I cafe. I assume went down so they could run track speed north to Cayce. Instead of the restricted speed for light engine.

Amtk 25020. I believe the last car from the wrecked 91.

Amtk 6104(6???) Viewliner II baggage car. Was the last car of the wrecked 91.

Amtk 620?? Viewliner I sleeper. This. Car was 9111 on the wrecked train second to the rear.

Amtk 62012 Viewliner I sleeper. This was car 9110 directly behind the cafe that split in half. Has visible damage to the B end of the car which is the last car on the train.

I'll post photos later when I'm not adopting lovable kitties to forever homes. And again for my friend many thanks for the heads up.

By Northeast Columbia at 1329 headed for Hamlet, Raleigh, Rocky Mount, Richmond, Lorton, Washington.

 

[jis]

25020 was probably the Coach immediately ahead of the Dinette that split into two.

 

[brianpmcdonnell17]

Does anyone know what happened to the second coach? It is obvious that the cafe will not be repaired and possibly the second coach, but at least from the outside the second coach appeared to have little damage.

 

[Seaboard92]

Does anyone know what happened to the second coach? It is obvious that the cafe will not be repaired and possibly the second coach, but at least from the outside the second coach appeared to have little damage.

From what I've heard from my sources the locomotive, first two coaches, and the diner lite are all on the scrap list. I'll try to get down to the staging site this week and see what I can see.

 

[AGM.12]

With all of the liability issues out there, I wonder if CSX might use this accident as an excuse to tell Amtrak to move the Silver Star somewhere else or buy this line.

 

[Thirdrail7]

With all of the liability issues out there, I wonder if CSX might use this accident as an excuse to tell Amtrak to move the Silver Star somewhere else or buy this line.

That's just it. Unless Amtrak pushes it and a court proves "gross negligence," the only liability CSX will have is the repairs to their infrastructure and their credibility. I'm willing to bet when people think of this accident, CSX isn't the first thing that comes to mind.

 

[PRR 60]

"Gross negligence" is a tough standard to prove. It has to essentially be a willful act. The mistake was not only made, but the mistake was known as it was being made and, knowing that, there was still nothing done to correct it. Basically, you have to prove sabotage.

 

[JRR]

“Willful and wanton” are good terms to describe conduct amounting to Gross Negligence.

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[neroden]

"Gross negligence" is a tough standard to prove. It has to essentially be a willful act. The mistake was not only made, but the mistake was known as it was being made and, knowing that, there was still nothing done to correct it. Basically, you have to prove sabotage.

Deliberately falsifying a federal safety form would qualify, IMO. Someone falsified that form.