Amtrak train number 9 & 10?

[zephyr17]

My recollection of my 1961 Official Guide was that at that time, WP was using the SP buses and serving 3rd & Townsend.  I wasn't at home when I responded and didn't have access and am not now.  When I get home I will check that.

I checked and according to my January 1961 Official Guide the buses between Middle Harbor Road and San Francisco served the SP station at Third and Townsend, not Santa Fe.  Clearest note is in Burlington section:

"Note - Revenue passengers will handled without charge on bus between Oakland and San Francisco, Third Street (S.P. Station)"

I am not disputing that later they switched to Santa Fe.  WP had a closer relationship to Santa Fe anyway, and in the mid 60s there was at least talk of a merger.

 

[ehbowen]

I checked and according to my January 1961 Official Guide the buses between Middle Harbor Road and San Francisco served the SP station at Third and Townsend, not Santa Fe.  Clearest note is in Burlington section:

"Note - Revenue passengers will handled without charge on bus between Oakland and San Francisco, Third Street (S.P. Station)"

I am not disputing that later they switched to Santa Fe.  WP had a closer relationship to Santa Fe anyway, and in the mid 60s there was at least talk of a merger.

According to my collection the switch from 3rd & Townsend to the Santa Fe terminal at 44 Fourth Street occurred between April and June of 1965. Santa Fe had ended its bid for a merger with the WP a year earlier, in 1964, so the two were probably not directly related. However, I wouldn't be surprised if WP management felt that ATSF was "friendlier" both to them...and to passenger train service in general...than was SP in the mid/late 1960s. The bus service to the Santa Fe terminal would remain for the remainder of the original California Zephyr's tenure.

 

[Thirdrail7]

12 and 13 were used for the Northeast Corridor "Fast Mail" up until the early 2000s. 12 carried passengers and mail from WAS north while 13 was mail-only southbound.

We also had Mail 10 and Mail 15. Mail 15 was the weekend version of Mail 13 for quite sometime until they made it a daily train.  Additionally, Mail 13 carried passengers from Boston to SPG at one point to satisfy some sort of Conrail complaint. I believe they didn't want it on their territory without passengers since Amtrak was a passenger operation.

Mail 10 came into existence when the upped the speed on the regional trains from 110mph to 125mph.  The MHCs were only good for 110 so they took the mail cars from 148 and 178 and made Mail 10.  It never carried passengers.

 

[railiner]

 Additionally, Mail 13 carried passengers from Boston to SPG at one point to satisfy some sort of Conrail complaint. I believe they didn't want it on their territory without passengers since Amtrak was a passenger operation.

That is a fact...it was brought to the attention of upper Conrail management at an annual meeting of stockholder's in Philly, by someone I know very closely....

Conrail then told Amtrak to either add a rider coach from Boston to Springfield, or run it over the NEC, as they would not allow an Amtrak "freight only" train on their property...