amtrak train stranded 16 hours

[sportbiker]

In many of the cases (like the recent case in MI), stopping at a station means blocking the tracks for everyone else trying to get through (potentially causing cascading delays and crews out of time everywhere) and proceeding to a yard lessens the impact on other trains.

No matter where a train stops it could be a problem. If it stops on a single-track mainline it could block the entire line. My point is: if the crew knows it's going to time out, it also has time to find a convenient place to stop, not simply continue until 11:59:59 and then put on the brakes.

 

[AlanB]

In many of the cases (like the recent case in MI), stopping at a station means blocking the tracks for everyone else trying to get through (potentially causing cascading delays and crews out of time everywhere) and proceeding to a yard lessens the impact on other trains.

No matter where a train stops it could be a problem. If it stops on a single-track mainline it could block the entire line. My point is: if the crew knows it's going to time out, it also has time to find a convenient place to stop, not simply continue until 11:59:59 and then put on the brakes.

But it's not the crew's choice on where to stop, it's the dispatcher's choice. The crew can't just say, "Oh, this looks like a nice place to stop and wait for our replacements." They have to keep going until either they run out of hours or the dispatcher ok's parking the train someplace.

 

[sportbiker]

There is, but the usual legal standard of innocent until proven guilty is turned on its head. You must convince the Feds that the situation would have been made worse by you not stopping at 11:59:59.99. That is not easy.Just about the only exception is when there are lives at stake. Inconvenience, even to the extreme, is not an acceptable excuse for a crew to work past 12 hours. And if a railroad willfully violates the hours of service law and does not prove an valid reason to do so, then the penalties are hefty, to say the least.

That standard would, in my world, be eased to allow a passenger comfort/inconvenience exception.

 

[AlanB]

There is, but the usual legal standard of innocent until proven guilty is turned on its head. You must convince the Feds that the situation would have been made worse by you not stopping at 11:59:59.99. That is not easy.Just about the only exception is when there are lives at stake. Inconvenience, even to the extreme, is not an acceptable excuse for a crew to work past 12 hours. And if a railroad willfully violates the hours of service law and does not prove an valid reason to do so, then the penalties are hefty, to say the least.

That standard would, in my world, be eased to allow a passenger comfort/inconvenience exception.

Short of a smoker, a passenger isn't going to be anymore comfortable sitting on a train in a station than they are sitting on a train in the middle of a field waiting for a new crew to show up.

 

[Guest]

I am amazed that the Amtrak Department of Nationwide 24 Hour On Call One-Hour Substitute Bus, Row Boat, Dog Sled, Ski Patrol, Helicopter, Catering, Mounted Cavalry, and Fully-Qualified Extra Crew dropped the ball on this.

I guess you haven't ever noticed, Amtrak runs trains 24x7. Amtrak doesn't stop all it trains for the night at 5pm, and it even has some trains that run on the weekends!

Surprise, surprise!

So, yes, Amtrak needs to have the appropriate staff, available, whenever a major problem or event occurs on any of its routes.

You mock the comment, making it sound ridiculous to expect Amtrak to be able to find a "Fully-Qualified" relief train crew even after 24 hours. I find that toally shameful that they can't.

 

[AlanB]

You mock the comment, making it sound ridiculous to expect Amtrak to be able to find a "Fully-Qualified" relief train crew even after 24 hours. I find that toally shameful that they can't.

I've never heard of an Amtrak train sitting for 24 hours waiting for a relief crew. Worst case scenario it might be 12 hours by the time a crew gets its 8 hours of rest and gets driven back to the train.

And it's not mocking, no one can afford to keep paying multiple crews to just sit at home on the off chance that one crew might outlaw this month. The salary costs for doing so would be enormous. Consider just the Chief, that train probably uses at a quick count at least 6 or 7 unique crews along it's journey, maybe more. So you would need to be paying two conductors, one engineer, and one fireman times the number of crews to just sit at home waiting in the hope that a regular crew outlaws.

You can't take a crew on standby from Kansas City and fly them to Albuquerque to relieve a crew that outlawed west of ABQ, because the crew from KC isn't qualified to run the route west of ABQ.

 

[frj1983]

I am amazed that the Amtrak Department of Nationwide 24 Hour On Call One-Hour Substitute Bus, Row Boat, Dog Sled, Ski Patrol, Helicopter, Catering, Mounted Cavalry, and Fully-Qualified Extra Crew dropped the ball on this.

I guess you haven't ever noticed, Amtrak runs trains 24x7. Amtrak doesn't stop all it trains for the night at 5pm, and it even has some trains that run on the weekends!

Surprise, surprise!

So, yes, Amtrak needs to have the appropriate staff, available, whenever a major problem or event occurs on any of its routes.

You mock the comment, making it sound ridiculous to expect Amtrak to be able to find a "Fully-Qualified" relief train crew even after 24 hours. I find that toally shameful that they can't.

GuestGuest,

I think you missed the point here...JAChooChoo was heaping sarcasm on those who think the Railroad must have Bus, Row Boat, helicopter, etc. on hand to make crew changes as soon as possible!

 

[sportbiker]

Short of a smoker, a passenger isn't going to be anymore comfortable sitting on a train in a station than they are sitting on a train in the middle of a field waiting for a new crew to show up.

I would disagree. If a train will be delayed for hours, some passengers might choose to explore the town, go to a Denny's, whatever. Others might be in situations where they can arrange their own transportation for the remainder of their journey. Besides, psychologically, being in a confined situation is often easier if a person knows he has the option of doing something about it, even if he chooses not to.

 

[RRrich]

Short of a smoker, a passenger isn't going to be anymore comfortable sitting on a train in a station than they are sitting on a train in the middle of a field waiting for a new crew to show up.

Gotta argue that one, my friend, and what I object to is the word COMFORTABLE - I think pax would be much more comfortable in a room with an unlocked door than in the same room with a locked door - even if there is a blinding snowstorm outside the door. Pax on the "16 hour train" were in no obvious danger, but they couldn't get off the train and that was the problem.

From what I have read here, Amtrak handled the situation properly but the pax were uncomfortable. In the middle of terrible weather, the pax were uncomfortable - Amtrak should be sued! [/sarcasm]

STUFF HAPPENS, you do everything you can, but it still happens :angry:

 

[George Harris]

There is, but the usual legal standard of innocent until proven guilty is turned on its head. You must convince the Feds that the situation would have been made worse by you not stopping at 11:59:59.99. That is not easy.Just about the only exception is when there are lives at stake. Inconvenience, even to the extreme, is not an acceptable excuse for a crew to work past 12 hours. And if a railroad willfully violates the hours of service law and does not prove an valid reason to do so, then the penalties are hefty, to say the least.

That standard would, in my world, be eased to allow a passenger comfort/inconvenience exception.

The railroad is not your world. It is a world operated under a series of very specific and explicit federal regulations. If you want the changed, start with your congress critter.

 

[sportbiker]

The railroad is not your world. It is a world operated under a series of very specific and explicit federal regulations. If you want the changed, start with your congress critter.

I am well aware of that, which is why I said "in my world."