Amtrak vs Alaska Ferry

[me_little_me]

I just got back from Alaska after taking the ferry twice - a daytime trip from Juneau to Skagway and a 4 night trip from Skagway to Bellingham. The ferries carry walk-on passengers as well as vehicles and can handle up to 1000 passengers. I've taken Amtrak many times. Some interesting(?) thoughts:

The ferry employees work for the state of Alaska directly. Amtrak employees are employees of a government corporation. I assume ferry employees are better paid but have no direct knowledge of it. Amtrak people, while not highly paid, do receive more than hotel or typical restaurant pay so tips are not as important as wait staff or hotel cleaning staff but do supplement their pay.

Tipping on the ferry is prohibited by state law. It is made VERY clear including signs posted on the dining room walls (which reference the law) and signs on each dining room table (which have a copy of the law). Amtrak employees are permitted to accept tips for service in rooms, coaches and dining areas.

From AK Ferry web page:  

Alaska Marine Highway System thanks you for your patronage and appreciates the kind gestures you show our staff by desiring to leave gratuities. However, because our crewmembers are State of Alaska employees, they are prohibited by Alaska State law from accepting tips."A public officer may not accept, receive, or solicit compensation for the performance of official duties or responsibilities from a person other than the State." (AS 39.52.120(b) (2)) A "public officer" is defined as a public employee. Please do not offer tips to our employees. Tip money left behind goes into the State general fund. Again, thank you for your generosity – it is our pleasure to serve you, your smile is reward enough!

The service by employees an both trips was nothing short of excellent. In the dining room on the overnight ferry that had one, we were seated by the hostess, received excellent waitstaff service, were repeatedly offered refills for coffee, and were able to get substitutions for side items without and hesitation. Each and every staff person was friendly, talkative and helpful and everyone had a smile. Pursers, gift shop clerk and cleaning staff as well as crew members were excellent. When we needed an extra pillow and told a staffer, it was delivered to our room. Service was as good as I've encountered at the restaurants with the best service. Amtrak service people range from excellent to very poor but the average staffer doesn't hold a candle to the ferry people I encountered. note that on the ferry, there is no assigned room attendant and there is no daily service - rooms are cleaned and linen changed when vacated or if linen is brought to purser's office.

Bathrooms in cabins and in common areas on the ferry were always sparkling clean even though the ferry hauls hundreds of passengers on any route. I often saw staff cleaning, vacuuming, etc. Amtrak staff often feel that the passengers should clean up after themselves and, if they don't, the bathroom is just locked or left in poor condition until cleaned at the major re-supply stations in spite of the Amtrak Standards Manual provisions. Note that the ferry carries not only passengers in cabins but those who sleep in common areas or set up tents there (both of which are permitted in the most part). Most passengers do not have a cabin.

Both Amtrak and the AK Ferry sell travel separately form cabin (room) charges which are both priced per cabin (room) not per person. Apparently, the ferry has a single price for travel and cabins independent of when you make reservations so if a cabin is available, you pay the same price whether you reserved it six months ahead of time or got it space available from the purser on board. The same is true for the transportation ticket. Amtrak works like airlines in that prices are based on demand and vary from minute to minute.

Just prior to our arrival in Bellingham, the purser made an announcement on the PA that any passenger taking Amtrak (a short walk from the ferry and 45 minutes after scheduled arrival) should meet at her office. We were then escorted to the car deck where we were helped off first prior to cars leaving from there or passengers leaving from the passenger deck ramp. When we left Ketchikan on that trip, they made an announcement recommending that passengers turn off (or put on Airplane Mode) all cell phones to avoid rip-off international fees when going through Canadian waters. Both were nice touches.

Food prices on the ferry were better than Alaska food prices in both Dining Room (one ferry had it) and cafeteria (on both ferries) but comparable to Amtrak in my opinion. This is especially true since the price on the menu is the final price paid as there is no tipping and AK has no state sales tax although some cities do.

Ferry cabins do NOT include meals as do Amtrak rooms. However, a 2 bunk cabin with outside window cost about $80/night for the 4 night trip.

Note, there is no way to compare ferry cabins and dining with Amtrak's rooms or dining as the ferry's size makes for a LOT more room for both.

 

[Just-Thinking-51]

Thanks for the story, Now on my vacation to do list. Got a link?

As for the rest apples and oranges. I would think.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

I really want to sail to Alaska too, but I don't have enough money because the hotels in Alaska cost $$$$$$$$$$!

 

[J-1 3235]

While my experience on the Alaska Marine Highway ferry was only a five hour journey from Prince Rupert to Ketchikan, I do agree with me_little_me. The crew was very pleasant and helpful.

The scenery was amazing

 

[Shanghai]

I've been on the Alaska Inter Passage cruise on the MS Prinsendam.

The crew were very friendly and facilitating and the food was

outstanding!! While it was an enjoyable event, I still prefer Amtrak.

 

[Rail Freak]

I've looked into that, as well, but for some reason it got tucked away, so to speak. But I'm glad you brought it up!!! I've been saving points & by next summer I may be able to do a STP-WAS-CHI-LAX-SEA-BEL/ Bellingham to Skagway Marine Highway round trip/ BEL-SEA-LAX-CHI-WAS-STP!!! Hell, maybe even sooner. If any one has pointers for booking the AHMS trip, PM me!

Thanx

 

[Texan Eagle]

Note that the ferry carries not only passengers in cabins but those who sleep in common areas or set up tents there (both of which are permitted in the most part). Most passengers do not have a cabin.

I'd like to see an Amtrak train where we can set up tents to sleep and avoid the exorbitant sleeper charges

 

[Just-Thinking-51]

Note that the ferry carries not only passengers in cabins but those who sleep in common areas or set up tents there (both of which are permitted in the most part). Most passengers do not have a cabin.

I'd like to see an Amtrak train where we can set up tents to sleep and avoid the exorbitant sleeper charges

Never seen the homeless shelter set up in the lounge car after hours?

Never see a beach towel pinned up blocking out the noise / light / traffic around a couple of seats have we?

 

[PaulM]

As for the rest apples and oranges. I would think.

I'm just thinking that would be all except customer service.

 

[ehbowen]

Bathrooms in cabins and in common areas on the ferry were always sparkling clean even though the ferry hauls hundreds of passengers on any route. I often saw staff cleaning, vacuuming, etc. Amtrak staff often feel that the passengers should clean up after themselves and, if they don't, the bathroom is just locked or left in poor condition until cleaned at the major re-supply stations in spite of the Amtrak Standards Manual provisions.

This. On our big family trip to California in 2006, the sleeper restroom trash bins were full when we boarded the Sunset Limited in Houston. For the next two days, the SCA never lifted a finger to clean them, while the used paper towels and worse overflowed onto the floor. There were big cardboard trash bins right there in the vestibule and upstairs by the coffee station, so it's not as if it would have been Mission Impossible to take out the trash. But our car attendant just couldn't be bothered; I guess cleaning restrooms was beneath him.

 

[me_little_me]

As for the rest apples and oranges. I would think.

I'm just thinking that would be all except customer service.

Yes, and since almost all of the things I mentioned were customer service, that was precisely my primary point. Amtrak has inconsistent service at best and it has nothing to do with it being government owned. The ferry shows that a government run operation can give good customer service. Thanks for noting my unstated point.

By the way, in September 2005, the Alaska Marine Highway was named an All-American Road by the Federal Highway Administration and it receives highway funds. Maybe Amtrak should do the same thing then it can get highway funds and people can't complain that it gets subsidies :giggle: . "Amtrak - America's Rail Tollway. Part of the Eisenhower Interstate System. Your highway dollars at work."

 

[Just-Thinking-51]

As for the rest apples and oranges. I would think.

I'm just thinking that would be all except customer service.

Yes, and since almost all of the things I mentioned were customer service, that was precisely my primary point. Amtrak has inconsistent service at best and it has nothing to do with it being government owned. The ferry shows that a government run operation can give good customer service. Thanks for noting my unstated point.

Oh I got your point about the customer service of a needed transportation system. I am just thinking a state run operation that is amost a requirement due the nature of state, and the kicking boy of the government will have different levels of job security. Over the years I have a poor service from veteran Amtrak employee just because there job was in danger of been cut. I also see the same employee do a great job the next time I have seen. The only different was the budget was passed. I make no excuse for bad service, I just understand people. It takes me a few days to get into the swing of things when I leave for my next 28 day work period, and my field of work is very much in growth mode, so even if something happen it would take but a few days to land another job.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

Does anybody know which ship sails from Bellingham to Seward?

 

[zephyr17]

Does anybody know which ship sails from Bellingham to Seward?

The Marine Highway does not appear to serve Seward, but does serve Whittier. From Bellingham, the Columbia goes to Skagway weekly and twice a month the Kennicott goes to Homer and stops in Whittier on the way.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

Does anybody know which ship sails from Bellingham to Seward?

The Marine Highway does not appear to serve Seward, but does serve Whittier. From Bellingham, the Columbia goes to Skagway weekly and twice a month the Kennicott goes to Homer and stops in Whittier on the way.

OK, thanks. So does the Kennicott sail all the way from Bellingham or does it star in Skagway and you have to connect from the Columbia?

 

[railiner]

Interesting thread.....I've been on two cruises to Alaska, and one bus trip there up the AlCan, with air return, but the ferry has eluded me. I'll have to get around to it eventually.

The closest I came to that was an overnite on the Marine Atlantic ferry between Nova Scotia and Newfoundland, a much shorter voyage than the Alaska ferry, but they also offer cabins.

What is interesting is that Alaska has not tried to privatize the operation. Or perhaps they have, but it is not profitable, so there were no takers, and the State continues it as a public servicel....

 

[smee]

I plan on going to Alaska as a 50th birthday present to myself. This is something I never knew about but now I think I will work a trip into my itinerary.

 

[nos]

On Amtrak.com there is no Alaska station or route to be found anywhere near the state. I get the impression from the OP that Amtrak runs a ferry service?? I was under the impression that Amtrak just operated trains and connecting shuttle buses so if someone could explain Amtrak and Alaska to me that would be great.

 

[Ryan]

Amtrak does not operate anything in or to Alaska.

The OP is comparing two different services provided by two different entities.

 

[railiner]

The State of Alaska also operates a very nice railroad with passenger service between Seward, Anchorage, Denali National Park, and Fairbanks. They have full service dining and lounge cars, but no overnite service, hence no sleepers. In addition, they carry several cars on their trains belonging to some cruiselines. The Alaska Marine Highway is their only connection to Canada and the Lower 48 states from a branchline at Whittier.

There is also the White Pass and Yukon RR, a narrow guage tourist line that runs from Skagway on the coast up thru B.C. towards Whitehorse, YT. There is currently no service beyond B.C. A parallel highway ended that service, along with their container freight service some time ago.

The closest network railroad terminal to Alaska is at Prince Rupert, BC, served by VIARail, an alternate point to board the Alaska Marine Highway besides Bellingham, Wa., served by Amtrak....

 

[MrFSS]

For those who now have the bug to ride, here is the official website.

 

[EMDF9A]

We beat this to death every couple months or so. I'm on the side that AMTRAK OBS have a long way to go in the realm of customer service, and that if they had effective management, they could make marked improvement within 2 years. This can only be positive. There are, however, many here who are, for lack of a better term 'AMTRAK Apologists" who constantly remind us that we need to be grateful that we even HAVE AMTRAK and thus excuse the poor performance of OBS staff and their lack of accountability and customer service. If AMTRAK refuses to learn from cruise lines, hotels, hospitals, casinos and restaurants... perhaps a lesson from the Alaska Marine Highway System might help. (But I doubt it)

"Please Sir, Can I have some more?"

David

Seattle

 

[AlanB]

You know, it's so easy to play armchair quarterback or coach. It's a whole lot harder when you're actually the Johnny on the spot. And I just cringe when I see things like "effective management" posted here. One of our long time members here, who for nearly 10 years has been posting here of his own free will to help people navigate was apparently one of those "ineffective managers." I can't begin to imagine how he must feel to come here and read things like that, when for several years he was right there on the front lines doing his level best to be effective management.

And when he was promoted, he then supervised 4 or 5 other managers who rode the trains to try and provide "effective management." And even he himself still got out to ride the trains. In fact, he darn near ran himself into the ground riding trains back when SDS was first implemented trying to help the crews acclimate to the changes and understand the new ways of doing things.

Providing management for a moving train that's away from its home base for days on end is not an easy thing to do. A hotel manager can sit in his office doing the needed paperwork and then suddenly decide to get up and go check to see if housekeeping is doing what they're supposed to be. He can pop in on the restaurant workers unannounced to see what they're doing.

A train manager can't be doing their required paperwork in their office and then on a random whim, decided to just go check out what the crew is doing. And they can't just show up without warning. If the manager is there in the station to board the train, it only takes a minute or two before the whole crew knows that they must be on the best behavior for that trip.

Amtrak is further hampered by the fact that they cannot put a manager on every single trip. Some long time riders will remember the onboard service chief program. This was Amtrak's initial attempt to solve some of the issues. The problem was that the chief was a union member. This made it hard for some to really discipline their "brethren". Some were very good, some weren't.

So Amtrak pulled the plug on that and came out with something new. The union took Amtrak to court over that, and won a judgement that Amtrak had essentially replaced a union position with a non-union position. So Amtrak had to try again. Besides, they really couldn't afford the costs of putting a manager on every train.

But there are managers out there riding trains nearly every day. Not every train, but the odds are good that at least one LD has a manager on board most days. But again, of course the crew knows when that manager is there. In some sense it reminds me of a summer camp that I used to do volunteer work for. This camp was located on an island in the middle of a lake in upstate NY, not far from Lake Placid. The only way to get to the camp was to parachute in, a very long swim, or the more practical option of a boat.

This meant that the health inspector could never catch them by surprise, as they had to call up to arrange for the boat to come get them. So no matter what, they always had at about an hour to try and clean things up and deal with any major problem, long before the inspector got to the island.

Are things perfect? NO! But as a regular rider, I've seen big improvements from where things were 10 years ago with the OBS on trains. This is not to suggest that Amtrak should rest on its laurels. And we riders can help by making sure to call/write/email Amtrak pointing out both the good & the bad employees.

Frankly, IMHO, right now Amtrak's bigger problem is the inconsistent support from phone reps and station personnel. In the latter case, this is especially true when things go wrong. Sometimes they handle it very well and other times it's like this is the first time that they're seeing stranded passengers who mis-connected.

But management is trying! At least in most cases. Just like in the OBS world, there are some great managers, some decent ones, a few that get by, and a couple that should be looking for a new job.

When Hank retired a couple of years ago, Amtrak lost a great manager! And yet Hank is still here most days reading this board, making posts that help people with questions about Amtrak, and it would not surprise me at all to learn that every once in a while he picks up his phone or sends off an email to his old boss to say "hey, I just read about a big problem that you may have on your hands." His old boss by the way is a senior VP at Amtrak.

Hank, thanks for your years of service and your attempts to make Amtrak better! And thanks for your continued presence and participation here!

 

[GG-1]

Hank, thanks for your years of service and your attempts to make Amtrak better! And thanks for your continued presence and participation here!

Aloha

And I wish to add Mahalo from me.

 

[PRR 60]

I think the wildly variable level of on-board service delivery has been, and continues to be among Amtrak’s more serious issues. I’ve experienced it myself even though my Amtrak long distance trips are relatively infrequent.

I’m sure that a former Amtrak service manager knows better than anyone Amtrak’s problems in that area, and can understand the frustration of those who support passenger rail only to see that desire undermined by poorly performing front-line employees.