Amtrak

[Acela150]

Found this on Railpace.com :

NEW AMTRAK CARRY-ON BAGGAGE SECURITY SCREENING AT CHICAGO UNION STATION: The Amtrak Police Department will periodically conduct random screening of Amtrak passengers and their carry-on baggage at Chicago Union Station, effective today, May 27. This initiative is part of an ongoing commitment by Amtrak to improve safety and security at stations and on trains across its national network. It is not in response to any threat. Randomly selected Amtrak passengers and their baggage, handbags, backpacks or other personal items may be screened or inspected as they board trains. The inspection will be completed as quickly as possible — usually less than a minute — in a manner designed to respect passengers’ privacy as much as possible. Dangerous, hazardous and illegal items, including all firearms and other weapons, are prohibited in carry-on baggage. "Amtrak has been conducting these security screenings on a random basis along the Northeast Corridor and during special events elsewhere, in some cases in conjunction with the Transportation Security Administration,” said Amtrak Chief of Police John O’Connor. In addition to the carry-on baggage screening, Amtrak Police explosive detection dogs will continue to patrol on the platforms, on-board trains, and throughout the station. Some of these K9’s are trained to detect specific materials on or around passengers. A passenger who does not consent to the inspection or other security procedures will be denied access to Amtrak trains. In such cases, an Amtrak Police Officer will accompany the passenger to the ticket office, where a full refund may be given, without fee or penalty, even if the ticket is ordinarily non-refundable. The ticket may be refunded in cash, credit or travel certificate, depending on how it was paid. Screening and other security activities are done on an unannounced and unpredictable basis. Therefore, no further public announcements regarding this type of screening are anticipated. An average of 55 Amtrak trains come and go from Chicago Union Station every day, with more than 8,500 Amtrak passengers using the station daily. With more than 1.5 million passengers, it is the fourth busiest station in the Amtrak system. (Amtrak - posted 5/27)

I thought this was all across the country not just the NEC

Share your thoughts,

Steve

 

[NorthCoastHiawatha]

and there it is, the beginning of the end.

 

[the_traveler]

On NTD, I took #66 back from PHL to KIN. They had a table set up to randomly search the carry-ons of passengers boarding #66. They randomly searched 1 (ONE) person out of the 30-35 people boarding #66!

I tell you that I feel safer! :lol:

 

[afigg]

I have made probably several dozen trips on the NEC over the past year and a half and have yet to subject to a random search. I think I have seen a couple of people pulled aside for a quick search at Washing on Union Station, but never at NYP. How the heck they would do random searches at NYP when the mob crowds around the escalator after the track number is announced?

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

Same here, never been randomly searched.

It is sad to see this, but I did like this bit (more than you can say for not cooperating with the TSA):

A passenger who does not consent to the inspection or other security procedures will be denied access to Amtrak trains. In such cases, an Amtrak Police Officer will accompany the passenger to the ticket office, where a full refund may be given, without fee or penalty, even if the ticket is ordinarily non-refundable. The ticket may be refunded in cash, credit or travel certificate, depending on how it was paid.

 

[sunchaser]

I'm sure that most of the people on this board would not be selected for a random search-but then again some of do look a bit odd!!! :lol: Since most if not all here usually behave ourselves, we shouldn't have any problems.

 

[Guest]

I'm sure that most of the people on this board would not be selected for a random search-but then again some of do look a bit odd!!! :lol: Since most if not all here usually behave ourselves, we shouldn't have any problems.

Some???? :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[the_traveler]

I'm sure that most of the people on this board would not be selected for a random search-but then again some of do look a bit odd!!! :lol: Since most if not all here usually behave ourselves, we shouldn't have any problems.

Some???? :lol: :lol: :lol:

YOU TALKING ABOUT ME? :huh: :lol:

 

[Heading North]

I was once randomly screened, back in 2006 or 2007, boarding train 67 at NYP in the wee hours. I was one of the first down the escalator, and one (undercover) officer followed me into the train car's vestibule. Concerned about being followed so closely, I walked into the next car, and the other officer entered that car's vestibule, surrounding me on both sides... then they showed badges. I was asked to step off the train, told that I wouldn't miss it, and then they searched my luggage, noted my ID, and sent me on my way. For the most part, the officers were courteous and professional, so it wasn't too big of a deal.

 

[Chris J.]

I was once randomly screened, back in 2006 or 2007, boarding train 67 at NYP in the wee hours. I was one of the first down the escalator, and one (undercover) officer followed me into the train car's vestibule. Concerned about being followed so closely, I walked into the next car, and the other officer entered that car's vestibule, surrounding me on both sides... then they showed badges. I was asked to step off the train, told that I wouldn't miss it, and then they searched my luggage, noted my ID, and sent me on my way. For the most part, the officers were courteous and professional, so it wasn't too big of a deal.

I don't see the random searches as being a huge deal, as long as it's done in a professional way and I don't miss my train. However my worry is that this could be the 'thin end of the wedge' - the last thing I want to see at train stations is the airline-style security with shoe removal; liquids in bags and all that. I'm not sure that much more security would achieve anything anyway - unlike an airplane if you want to 'take out' a train you don't need to be on it.

 

[MikefromCrete]

I'm sure that most of the people on this board would not be selected for a random search-but then again some of do look a bit odd!!! :lol: Since most if not all here usually behave ourselves, we shouldn't have any problems.

If it's random, then we're all subject to this security theater.

 

[printman2000]

Same here, never been randomly searched.
It is sad to see this, but I did like this bit (more than you can say for not cooperating with the TSA):

A passenger who does not consent to the inspection or other security procedures will be denied access to Amtrak trains. In such cases, an Amtrak Police Officer will accompany the passenger to the ticket office, where a full refund may be given, without fee or penalty, even if the ticket is ordinarily non-refundable. The ticket may be refunded in cash, credit or travel certificate, depending on how it was paid.

So then you wait a little bit and go buy another ticket.

 

[printman2000]

I was once randomly screened, back in 2006 or 2007, boarding train 67 at NYP in the wee hours. I was one of the first down the escalator, and one (undercover) officer followed me into the train car's vestibule. Concerned about being followed so closely, I walked into the next car, and the other officer entered that car's vestibule, surrounding me on both sides... then they showed badges. I was asked to step off the train, told that I wouldn't miss it, and then they searched my luggage, noted my ID, and sent me on my way. For the most part, the officers were courteous and professional, so it wasn't too big of a deal.

So why did they wait until you were on the train to ask you to step off the train? Could they have not just politely stopped you on the platform instead of cornering you on the train.

 

[Bob Dylan]

Had to go to the zoo, er airport yesterday to pick up Stacy returning on a flight from Orlando! <_< A great reminder of the contrast between train stations and so called airports! Never have I seen such a mess @ an airport, not even in third world countries! Unbelievably long lines, only two regular "security" stations open, 1 "Special" where the High Rollers pay to skip the lines, supposedly get quicker/better service! :blink:

TSA lived up to their other name,thousands standing around,for sure! Even saw a kid on crutches,with a broken leg in a cast, be singled out for "special" checking! He was made to put his crutches on the belt and HOP through the metal detector!!! Needless to say boy did I feel safer, and boy was his family PO'd!Stacy told me it was just as bad @ Orlando

and the busy season is just starting!

She asked me why it was like this when it was so easy @ the train stations, which pretty much says it all! This is an ongoing topic that gets people steamed but as Ben Franklin DID say: "Those that sacrifice Liberty in the name of Security deserve neither!" We are lucky right now when catching trains,

most of us arent opposed to security, it is necessary in this crazy age, but Security Theater is a farce that needs to be stopped(most people have no idea that Homeland Security is spending more of the budget than the Pentagon!), we get what we deserve from the Government when we don't get involved and let the clowns, er politicians, run the circus as they see fit!

 

[MattW]

Anyone know how this applies to METRA passengers? Because except for the CL/LSL and Cardinal/Hoosier state the first and on a few lines, the second Amtrak station is also a METRA station. Though the CL and LSL do stop at South Bend which is near-ish to the South Shore line into Chicago. I've often thought about doing this if we as a family ever connected through Chicago to A. get more train time and B. avoid the gate agents at Chicago after everything I've heard about them.

 

[MrFSS]

Had to go to the zoo, er airport yesterday to pick up Stacy returning on a flight from Orlando! <_< A great reminder of the contrast between train stations and so called airports! Never have I seen such a mess @ an airport, not even in third world countries! Unbelievably long lines, only two regular "security" stations open, 1 "Special" where the High Rollers pay to skip the lines, supposedly get quicker/better service! :blink:
TSA lived up to their other name,thousands standing around,for sure! Even saw a kid on crutches,with a broken leg in a cast, be singled out for "special" checking! He was made to put his crutches on the belt and HOP through the metal detector!!! Needless to say boy did I feel safer, and boy was his family PO'd!Stacy told me it was just as bad @ Orlando

and the busy season is just starting!

She asked me why it was like this when it was so easy @ the train stations, which pretty much says it all! This is an ongoing topic that gets people steamed but as Ben Franklin DID say: "Those that sacrifice Liberty in the name of Security deserve neither!" We are lucky right now when catching trains,

most of us aren't opposed to security, it is necessary in this crazy age, but Security Theater is a farce that needs to be stopped(most people have no idea that Homeland Security is spending more of the budget than the Pentagon!), we get what we deserve from the Government when we don't get involved and let the clowns, er politicians, run the circus as they see fit!

What is your answer for what should be done? Take away all security? What would happen on airplanes and in airports, then?

Reduce the amount of security airports have? What do you reduce? What is needed and what isn't?

I'm sure many people, even some in authority, have thought about this. I think if there was a better way they might be doing it.

Security is there for only one reason, if it weren't we'd probably loose many aircraft full of people every day, or everyone would stop flying commercial.

 

[Guest]

Tom: As I said, I'm not opposed to REAL security anywhere, it is necessary in these wacky times! As weve discussed before Security Theater is not Security, it' leads to distrust and blase attitudes on the part of the Security forces and the citizens! We all can agree that lots of the procedures now being followed in Airports (and other places)are a waste of time,personnel and money! If someone wants to create an incident on a train or in a station they can easily do it as we all know! All the Security forces in the world are not going to stop the truely dedicated (and crazed) terrorists, just look @ the Middle East and our border with Mexico!

Jokes like I cited about making kids on crutches hop through metal detectors while 3 (three!)Supervisors stand there and watch would be a great example of what I'm talking about! Also in the PDX station I watched three (3) seperate K-9 teams walk through the station with their dogs sniffing luggage/people etc. and this was within 20 minutes! That's Security Theater, we can do better IMO!! Jim

 

[jis]

Having just gone through Israeli security at Ben Gurion Airport the other day I can say with certainty that there is an obviously more effective way. But I would caution all, that those that do get snagged for equally seemingly random reasons, and that does happen there too, will like it even less. I will refrain from mentioning what happens when you get red tagged. I have never been, but I know a few that have gotten the "royal treatment" from security there, and it is not pretty. Let's say that it is much worse than just hopping through a metal detector without crutches. And by golly it ain't no theater there either.

 

[Bob Dylan]

Having just gone through Israeli security at Ben Gurion Airport the other day I can say with certainty that there is a obviously more effective way. But I would caution all, that those that do get snagged for equally seemingly random reasons, and that does happen there too, will like it even less. I will refrain from mentioning what happens when you get red tagged. I have never been, but I know a few that have gotten the "royal treatment" from security there, and it is not pretty. Let's say that it is much worse than just hopping through a metal detector without crutches. And by golly it ain't no theater there either.

I concur jis, but we don't want to have to live like the nation of Israel, there has to be a middle ground, all Im really saying is that common sense should apply! There needs to be a valid reason for every policy and reaction is not the same as proaction! I can remember crossing the border from West to East in Berlin back in the day and that was a pretty hairy situation also! It's a fact that if the people let the Government take an inch theyll take a mile!

People are human and mistakes are made everyday in every profession and every walk of life but I think we all agree that we DON"T want or need TSA running their dog and pony show in Amtrak stations! As Bob Dylan said: "To each his own.." Ive lived a long time,been fortunate to have been lots of places just like you, theres no where else Id rather live or travel than North America (this includes Canada but not currently Mexico!!)but someone in authority (we the people!)needs to get the message across that we need and expect real Security, not Bread and Circuses like we see all the time in airports and train stations! As Dave pointed out, it's a wonder after the Christmas day bomber fiasco (The system DIDNT work Janet!)we didnt have to start taking our underwear off @ airports!

 

[George Harris]

Having just gone through Israeli security at Ben Gurion Airport the other day I can say with certainty that there is a obviously more effective way. . . . And by golly it ain't no theater there either.

I concur jis, but we don't want to have to live like the nation of Israel,

. . .

someone in authority (we the people!)needs to get the message across that we need and expect real Security, not Bread and Circuses like we see all the time in airports and train stations! As Dave pointed out, it's a wonder after the Christmas day bomber fiasco (The system DIDNT work Janet!)we didnt have to start taking our underwear off @ airports!

"REAL" is the key.

As somebody involved in discussion on security of high speed rail systems was known to have said in a meeting of "what if" paranoids: "you are fast approaching developing a system that I will not ride."

The porblem is that much of what is being kicked around is either theater or so over the top that it is like developing a million dollar solution to a thousand dollar problem.

 

[jis]

I agree that procedures need to be proportionate to the expected risk. Unfortunately we have proved to be not too good at either making a good objective risk assessment or coming up with a dispassionate analysis based on such to figure out a proportionate response. Instead it is typically a political football and that ain't no way to produce reasonable risk avoidance or mitigation systems. We see the sorry results at airports and train stations.

I believe that the Israeli system is more likely quite proportionate to the actual risk that they face. Heck even the Indian system, rickety as it is, is probably more aligned with the actual risks faced there. The US system for one is unbalanced in the sense that while there is all the hoo-haa at passenger entry points, it is well known that entry points into the secure area of airports on the freight side are relatively unsecured.

It is not very clear what the actual risk levels are, sorry the stupid color coded system is as clear as mud, and our keepers of security have certainly not been very good at explaining why they do what they do. Unfortunately they hide behind the need for secrecy. Security by obscurity in general is not a very good security procedure, because typically it causes those who need to know not to know and those who want to know figure out ways of knowing anyway, notwithstanding how many innocent photographers are intimidated and harassed in a manner of speaking.

 

[Bob Dylan]

Excellent, as usual jis you have hit the nail on the head! Ive ranted enough about this subject, just hope that trains and stations dont turn into neo-fascist places like airports! The President needs to sack Janet N. ("the system worked") and get somebody in her place who has a clue and also a competent TSA Administrator who will shape up these Keystone cops if Congress would ever approve any of his nominees!

 

[leemell]

Having just gone through Israeli security at Ben Gurion Airport the other day I can say with certainty that there is a obviously more effective way. But I would caution all, that those that do get snagged for equally seemingly random reasons, and that does happen there too, will like it even less. I will refrain from mentioning what happens when you get red tagged. I have never been, but I know a few that have gotten the "royal treatment" from security there, and it is not pretty. Let's say that it is much worse than just hopping through a metal detector without crutches. And by golly it ain't no theater there either.

I concur jis, but we don't want to have to live like the nation of Israel, there has to be a middle ground, all Im really saying is that common sense should apply! There needs to be a valid reason for every policy and reaction is not the same as proaction! I can remember crossing the border from West to East in Berlin back in the day and that was a pretty hairy situation also! It's a fact that if the people let the Government take an inch theyll take a mile!

People are human and mistakes are made everyday in every profession and every walk of life but I think we all agree that we DON"T want or need TSA running their dog and pony show in Amtrak stations! As Bob Dylan said: "To each his own.." Ive lived a long time,been fortunate to have been lots of places just like you, theres no where else Id rather live or travel than North America (this includes Canada but not currently Mexico!!)but someone in authority (we the people!)needs to get the message across that we need and expect real Security, not Bread and Circuses like we see all the time in airports and train stations! As Dave pointed out, it's a wonder after the Christmas day bomber fiasco (The system DIDNT work Janet!)we didnt have to start taking our underwear off @ airports!

You should note that there has not been a successful hijacking of an El Al aircraft since 1968 nor a bombing since 1969. I ask in all sincerity what TSA procedures airport procedures would you eliminate? What would you change?

 

[Bob Dylan]

You should note that there has not been a successful hijacking of an El Al aircraft since 1968 nor a bombing since 1969. I ask in all sincerity what TSA procedures airport procedures would you eliminate? What would you change?

Granted, but thats comparing apples to oranges! As to what could be improved/eliminated: jis touched on this, the real threats are in the cargo/freight areas, in our ports on shipping and the almost out of control borders with Mexico and Canada! Id re-organize TSA, there's far too many bosses/Supervisors etc. As to procedures, the idiotic plastic bags with small amount of liquids, taking off your belt and shoes accomplishes what?,

stuff like I cited about making kids on crutches hop through metal detectors etc. Profiling is considered a dirty word and is not PC but we almost have to start using this, that has nothing to do with religion or color, where you are coming from and why? are much more important! How many actual American citizens have actually been a threat too planes (or trains) since 9-11? The current peep and clear monitors are found to be ineffective and misused often, physical searches of bags is not used enough, and the high tech machines, while expensive, are still more cost effective than hiring thousands of people in blue uniforms to walk around with walkie talkies while armed law enforcement and military are present in the airports! It comes down to a cost effectiveness and the fact that we cant live in fear of what might happen? If it comes to that the fanatics win! (thats what they are, not to many atheists,buddists or christians or American citizens trying to blow up planes is there?)

BTW-There are many VERY dangerous places in the world, this country doesnt happen to be one of them by any means! Most Americans are fed up with Security theater, that's because we know crap when we see it!! Dont live in fear, that;s what seperates this country from the rest of the world!!!

 

[Railroad Bill]

I believe that if Amtrak would enforce the security procedures they already have it would enhance security on the trains. 1. We have rarely been asked for photo ID with our tickets when boarding an Amtrak train. There is no visual security at the station in which we board to observe "strange" behaviors or rowdy passengers preparing to board. I have many times reboarded trains at a stop without being asked for my ticket or ID. :unsure:

I suppose that my wife and I, at nearing age 60 and WASP, dont look like terrorists but we would not be offended if Amtrak always asked for photo ID with our tickets when we board and made it manditory that when I got off to take photos at a station stop that I produce my ticket when I reboarded.

Many times there was no attendant at the doors of some coaches or sleeping cars and anyone could get on the train for quite a while before anyone onboard staff would notice. On one of our trips last year two young men boarded our sleeper with stolen tickets. If someone had checked the photo IDs, as did eventually happen before the train left the station, they would never had gotten on board (They had no IDs and were eventually whisked away by police when it was found they had a suspicious looking package in their luggage.). We would not be offended if there was a search of carry on luggage, in the manner that bags are searched at athletic events. It probably wouldnt be a bad idea to have baggage scanners for checked bags as well. :unsure:

While in New Orleans last year there was a random check of boarding passengers on the Crescent but only young, ethnic passengers were stopped. We gray-haired seniors were permitted to board without a check. Was that right? I don't know. I am sure the 20 somethings were not happy as I would have been back in the 60s but such is life in the 21st century.

We do not fly, and thus have avoided the security checks at airports. I would hate to see Amtrak stop everyone for a full body scan, shoe check, etc but these are troubled times in which we live.

Just an opinion!