Amtrak's New "Fresh Choices" Dining on CL & LSL

[Lonestar648]

Basically, Anderson wins with reduced ridership on the LD trains, so a boycott helps Anderson get rid of LD. If everyone rides still, then Anderson wins by saying they will still ride even if we cut food service way back, because people accept what ever is put in front of them. Its a win/win for Anderson and lose/lose for those who ride the LD trains. Anderson's management probably isn't interested in ;looking at any comments sent their way unless they have to do with tweaking the new system.

 

[crescent-zephyr]

I too was discussing with someone how the meal service was going to work since the SCA at these times has generally been quite busy, especially with a full car of 40 passengers. I can see the SCA having a carry bag that might hold 10 meals, which they deliver. We couldn't figure out the dinner or breakfast beverages. If the SCA has time he may come by to pick up your meal tray in between delivery of more meals and the start of making down beds, Like mentioned above, the SCA also has boarding duties at many stations. An experienced SCA may be able to balance the duties and keep his passengers happy. I think even with the best SCA, response time will suffer with the SCA running many different directions. Mornings are going to be impossible for the SCAs doing meal service and having every room made up by the time they arrive Chicago. Going East bound will be much better for them, but still troublesome when passengers want their room made up before Breakfast and have breakfast at 7:00 AM. I suspect that the LSA will have to stay in the Sleeper Lounge whenever on duty. Also, what happens to the folks in the Trans dorm if the SCA is overloaded just with their car.

Well it works on the portland section of the empire builder every single day. Now they do have you pick up breakfast in the ssl which gives the SCA a chance to make the beds.

Maybe this will have the added benefit of weeding out the lazy SCA's?

 

[crescent-zephyr]

I believe the cafe car on the Downeaster is run by a private catering company employee and not an Amtrak employee.

The Downeaster cafe car is not run by Amtrak employee. But it's also a state supported run, and the state chose to pay for their own service. This is similar to the hoosier state hiring iowa pacific for OBS, and North Carolina staffs their own stations.

As has already been mentioned the Downeaster doesn't make a profit on the cafe.

 

[Lonestar648]

I too was discussing with someone how the meal service was going to work since the SCA at these times has generally been quite busy, especially with a full car of 40 passengers. I can see the SCA having a carry bag that might hold 10 meals, which they deliver. We couldn't figure out the dinner or breakfast beverages. If the SCA has time he may come by to pick up your meal tray in between delivery of more meals and the start of making down beds, Like mentioned above, the SCA also has boarding duties at many stations. An experienced SCA may be able to balance the duties and keep his passengers happy. I think even with the best SCA, response time will suffer with the SCA running many different directions. Mornings are going to be impossible for the SCAs doing meal service and having every room made up by the time they arrive Chicago. Going East bound will be much better for them, but still troublesome when passengers want their room made up before Breakfast and have breakfast at 7:00 AM. I suspect that the LSA will have to stay in the Sleeper Lounge whenever on duty. Also, what happens to the folks in the Trans dorm if the SCA is overloaded just with their car.

Well it works on the portland section of the empire builder every single day. Now they do have you pick up breakfast in the ssl which gives the SCA a chance to make the beds.

Maybe this will have the added benefit of weeding out the lazy SCA's?

The SCA needs the room occupants to be out of the room while they make up the beds, especially when they are changing them like on the CL and LSL. Maybe instead of room service, have the LSA have the breakfast freeing up the SCA like you said to work the rooms. I know the good SCA is working solid now in the mornings, so adding room service for every room if the car is sold out could be too much. Also, what is the LSA doing in the morning?

 

[OBS]

Ahem, this was called the Subway debacle. The unions made sure it never got rolling. No private operator would touch the dining car operation if it had to be at union scale anyways.

Never heard about this, what happened with that?

Once upon a time, trains that origin at Albany had food service. Amtrak cut the food service, but left the cars on the train. When the food service was cut a local Subway operator try to fill in for the lost of service, by selling product on the train. The union crew did not help, and basically blocked them from selling. Add in a few threats that were reported and the Subway operator end service within a week or so.

Also need to include the facts that Subway didn't have liquor license immediately, thus no liquor sales, as well as fact that Amtrak discontinued service because of low demand. Demand didn't suddenly skyrocket just because Subway was there instead....

 

[OBS]

On the issue of preparing food to order, remember that the most of the refrigerated/frozen food can NOT be taken back into stock because constant refrigerated temperatures can not be guaranteed, so all un served refrigerated food is trashed per USDA regulations. The hope is that with this new system there will be little or no waste.

The other cost savings with this change is the labor savings. To bring back hot meals I think you would need to increase your labor costs with adding a Food Specialist, and that I do not see happening. Depending on the per meal budget Amtrak is allocating, the vendor could be creative, so any tweaking would be with the meal itself. Appears breakfast needs to be rethought, like a cereal option.

People have been asking for a Sleeping Car lounge because the SSL gets so full at times.

I am sure this is an experiment to see how to roll it out across the country. They will learn lots, make changes, then roll out to a couple more trains like the SM, CONO, and/or TE.

This is not correct. All refrigerated items are issued from the commissary with a use by date. If items are still in date, they are reused and sent out on next train. Same with frozen items. The only things not saved are cooked items which are trashed after each meal service per FDA guidelines.

 

[Lonestar648]

I was told by a Chef on the TE that because the refrigerated items are loaded onto a cart in the heat of the summer, their temp could not be maintained or guaranteed, so they tried to use what ever frozen/refrigerated they could so it was not trashed when they git back to CHI..

 

[Anderson]

On the issue of preparing food to order, remember that the most of the refrigerated/frozen food can NOT be taken back into stock because constant refrigerated temperatures can not be guaranteed, so all un served refrigerated food is trashed per USDA regulations. The hope is that with this new system there will be little or no waste.

The other cost savings with this change is the labor savings. To bring back hot meals I think you would need to increase your labor costs with adding a Food Specialist, and that I do not see happening. Depending on the per meal budget Amtrak is allocating, the vendor could be creative, so any tweaking would be with the meal itself. Appears breakfast needs to be rethought, like a cereal option.

People have been asking for a Sleeping Car lounge because the SSL gets so full at times.

I am sure this is an experiment to see how to roll it out across the country. They will learn lots, make changes, then roll out to a couple more trains like the SM, CONO, and/or TE.

This is not correct. All refrigerated items are issued from the commissary with a use by date. If items are still in date, they are reused and sent out on next train. Same with frozen items. The only things not saved are cooked items which are trashed after each meal service per FDA guidelines.

(1) You could probably replace the second lounge LSA with a food specialist of some sort. De-staffing (or partially de-staffing) one of the two cars and moving that person to enhance what you can do in the second car isn't an insane move (we've seen de-staffing done with some CCC/SSL situations).

(2) Breakfast is a problem. If the train is (roughly) on time WB, this isn't a problem (if the Cap is showing up in CHI at 0830, I'll just sleep until 0745 or 0800, decline the 'meal', and get something on arrival; TBH, if OTP wasn't at issue, providing a breakfast buffet in the Metropolitan Lounge would actually be an improvement...and it would probably shunt the cost from the F&B line to the lounge costs line, a line that Congress has not yet seen fit to mess with). EB is the problem, since the Cap gets into DC after noon while the LSL doesn't get into Manhattan until evening. That being said, breakfast needs work and even EB I'd probably be sleeping in and simply making lunch my first meal.

(2b) The proffered breakfast falls into the same bin as the sorts of 'meatless continental' breakfasts I've run into at more than a few hotels, and reminds me of a gripe with expense rules I've had for some time. A decent Dunkin Donuts-type sandwich (which, by the way, Delta/Delta Connection flights tend to offer on longer morning flights as one of the options) would be passable, but I'm really not a pastry guy.

 

[OBS]

I was told by a Chef on the TE that because the refrigerated items are loaded onto a cart in the heat of the summer, their temp could not be maintained or guaranteed, so they tried to use what ever frozen/refrigerated they could so it was not trashed when they git back to CHI..

Sounds good in theory and first half of statement has some truth. But food is not trashed AFAIK, unless left out for an unreasonably long time.

Ice Cream was always an exception. It never lasted being unloaded from the train....

 

[cpotisch]

I believe the cafe car on the Downeaster is run by a private catering company employee and not an Amtrak employee.

Pretty sure it's staffed by an Amtrak employee, but gets some pastries and snacks from local companies.

 

[cpotisch]

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[crescent-zephyr]

I believe the cafe car on the Downeaster is run by a private catering company employee and not an Amtrak employee.

Pretty sure it's staffed by an Amtrak employee, but gets some pastries and snacks from local companies.

When I last rode the Downeaster, the cafe car was not staffed by an Amtrak employee. I believe the state hires them? And it's way more than "some pastries and snacks" the entire menu is different with local sandwiches and even local chowder being offered.

 

[PVD]

Downeaster food service is provided and staffed by a contractor. It gets high marks from most involved, but it loses money, which the agency accepts as part of the overall business plan.

 

[cpotisch]

Downeaster food service is provided and staffed by a contractor. It gets high marks from most involved, but it loses money, which the agency accepts as part of the overall business plan.

Looking at the cafe menu now, it indeed shares pretty much nothing with the typical Amtrak cafe selection.

 

[Skyline]

I too was discussing with someone how the meal service was going to work since the SCA at these times has generally been quite busy, especially with a full car of 40 passengers. I can see the SCA having a carry bag that might hold 10 meals, which they deliver. We couldn't figure out the dinner or breakfast beverages. If the SCA has time he may come by to pick up your meal tray in between delivery of more meals and the start of making down beds, Like mentioned above, the SCA also has boarding duties at many stations. An experienced SCA may be able to balance the duties and keep his passengers happy. I think even with the best SCA, response time will suffer with the SCA running many different directions. Mornings are going to be impossible for the SCAs doing meal service and having every room made up by the time they arrive Chicago. Going East bound will be much better for them, but still troublesome when passengers want their room made up before Breakfast and have breakfast at 7:00 AM. I suspect that the LSA will have to stay in the Sleeper Lounge whenever on duty. Also, what happens to the folks in the Trans dorm if the SCA is overloaded just with their car.

I wonder what the unions have to say about all this? Predictably, job losses and doubling or tripling of workload for those who don't get fired. This is why unions came into existence in the first place.

 

[fixj]

Are we sure Anderson ran Delta and not TWA? That would explain alot.

 

[cpotisch]

I too was discussing with someone how the meal service was going to work since the SCA at these times has generally been quite busy, especially with a full car of 40 passengers. I can see the SCA having a carry bag that might hold 10 meals, which they deliver. We couldn't figure out the dinner or breakfast beverages. If the SCA has time he may come by to pick up your meal tray in between delivery of more meals and the start of making down beds, Like mentioned above, the SCA also has boarding duties at many stations. An experienced SCA may be able to balance the duties and keep his passengers happy. I think even with the best SCA, response time will suffer with the SCA running many different directions. Mornings are going to be impossible for the SCAs doing meal service and having every room made up by the time they arrive Chicago. Going East bound will be much better for them, but still troublesome when passengers want their room made up before Breakfast and have breakfast at 7:00 AM. I suspect that the LSA will have to stay in the Sleeper Lounge whenever on duty. Also, what happens to the folks in the Trans dorm if the SCA is overloaded just with their car.

I wonder what the unions have to say about all this? Predictably, job losses and doubling or tripling of workload for those who don't get fired. This is why unions came into existence in the first place.

Indeed. Now SCAs working with a full car, will have to deliver as much as 45 meals a day (15 rooms times three meals). That will leave a lot less time for passenger assistance (turning down beds, getting bottled water, etc.) while quite possibly overworking the attendant. Should be fun.

 

[Rail Freak]

That will definitely bring Union Issues!

 

[bretton88]

I too was discussing with someone how the meal service was going to work since the SCA at these times has generally been quite busy, especially with a full car of 40 passengers. I can see the SCA having a carry bag that might hold 10 meals, which they deliver. We couldn't figure out the dinner or breakfast beverages. If the SCA has time he may come by to pick up your meal tray in between delivery of more meals and the start of making down beds, Like mentioned above, the SCA also has boarding duties at many stations. An experienced SCA may be able to balance the duties and keep his passengers happy. I think even with the best SCA, response time will suffer with the SCA running many different directions. Mornings are going to be impossible for the SCAs doing meal service and having every room made up by the time they arrive Chicago. Going East bound will be much better for them, but still troublesome when passengers want their room made up before Breakfast and have breakfast at 7:00 AM. I suspect that the LSA will have to stay in the Sleeper Lounge whenever on duty. Also, what happens to the folks in the Trans dorm if the SCA is overloaded just with their car.

I wonder what the unions have to say about all this? Predictably, job losses and doubling or tripling of workload for those who don't get fired. This is why unions came into existence in the first place.

Indeed. Now SCAs working with a full car, will have to deliver as much as 45 meals a day (15 rooms times three meals). That will leave a lot less time for passenger assistance (turning down beds, getting bottled water, etc.) while quite possibly overworking the attendant. Should be fun.

I believe I saw elsewhere Amtrak is adding an extra coach attendant and and extra SCA. My guess is that was the olive branch to the unions.

 

[crescent-zephyr]

Well, again, the unions have allows SCA's to have these responsibilities on the Empire Builder... Why anyone thinks this is some impossible feat is beyond me.

I, personally like the fact that Amtrak is making it clear that a sleeping car passenger can expect to be served in their room, at the time they want to be served within meal hours. While this was always the case, it wasn't advertised and it was certainly not encouraged by Amtrak staff.

 

[Lonestar648]

I too was discussing with someone how the meal service was going to work since the SCA at these times has generally been quite busy, especially with a full car of 40 passengers. I can see the SCA having a carry bag that might hold 10 meals, which they deliver. We couldn't figure out the dinner or breakfast beverages. If the SCA has time he may come by to pick up your meal tray in between delivery of more meals and the start of making down beds, Like mentioned above, the SCA also has boarding duties at many stations. An experienced SCA may be able to balance the duties and keep his passengers happy. I think even with the best SCA, response time will suffer with the SCA running many different directions. Mornings are going to be impossible for the SCAs doing meal service and having every room made up by the time they arrive Chicago. Going East bound will be much better for them, but still troublesome when passengers want their room made up before Breakfast and have breakfast at 7:00 AM. I suspect that the LSA will have to stay in the Sleeper Lounge whenever on duty. Also, what happens to the folks in the Trans dorm if the SCA is overloaded just with their car.

I wonder what the unions have to say about all this? Predictably, job losses and doubling or tripling of workload for those who don't get fired. This is why unions came into existence in the first place.

Indeed. Now SCAs working with a full car, will have to deliver as much as 45 meals a day (15 rooms times three meals). That will leave a lot less time for passenger assistance (turning down beds, getting bottled water, etc.) while quite possibly overworking the attendant. Should be fun.

There are 13 Revenue Roomettes, 5 Bedrooms, 1 H Room, and the Family Room or 20 rooms with a potential of 44 adults/children per meal equals 88 meals. If the SCA also has the 8 Roomettes in the TransDorm that makes 60 meals per meal or 120 on a sold out train. That is also 60 beds to change and remake each morning on a sell out.

 

[jis]

Why are we assuming that things will be significantly different from now in terms of the proportion of meals that will have to be delivered to rooms? Is it the theory that because there is no table wait service in the Lounge people will refuse to go to the Lounge for meals, and mingle with their fellow travelers?

 

[crescent-zephyr]

Why are we assuming that things will be significantly different from now in terms of the proportion of meals that will have to be delivered to rooms? Is it the theory that because there is no table wait service in the Lounge people will refuse to go to the Lounge for meals, and mingle with their fellow travelers?

The Amtrak wording makes it sounds like all meals are supposed to be delivered to the room, and the passenger can decide to eat in the room or take it to the lounge where tables will be available first come first serve.

I would think that would increase the number of guests who choose to eat in their room.

 

[cpotisch]

I too was discussing with someone how the meal service was going to work since the SCA at these times has generally been quite busy, especially with a full car of 40 passengers. I can see the SCA having a carry bag that might hold 10 meals, which they deliver. We couldn't figure out the dinner or breakfast beverages. If the SCA has time he may come by to pick up your meal tray in between delivery of more meals and the start of making down beds, Like mentioned above, the SCA also has boarding duties at many stations. An experienced SCA may be able to balance the duties and keep his passengers happy. I think even with the best SCA, response time will suffer with the SCA running many different directions. Mornings are going to be impossible for the SCAs doing meal service and having every room made up by the time they arrive Chicago. Going East bound will be much better for them, but still troublesome when passengers want their room made up before Breakfast and have breakfast at 7:00 AM. I suspect that the LSA will have to stay in the Sleeper Lounge whenever on duty. Also, what happens to the folks in the Trans dorm if the SCA is overloaded just with their car.

I wonder what the unions have to say about all this? Predictably, job losses and doubling or tripling of workload for those who don't get fired. This is why unions came into existence in the first place.

Indeed. Now SCAs working with a full car, will have to deliver as much as 45 meals a day (15 rooms times three meals). That will leave a lot less time for passenger assistance (turning down beds, getting bottled water, etc.) while quite possibly overworking the attendant. Should be fun.

There are 13 Revenue Roomettes, 5 Bedrooms, 1 H Room, and the Family Room or 20 rooms with a potential of 44 adults/children per meal equals 88 meals. If the SCA also has the 8 Roomettes in the TransDorm that makes 60 meals per meal or 120 on a sold out train. That is also 60 beds to change and remake each morning on a sell out.

I was talking about Viewliners.

 

[seat38a]

Why are we assuming that things will be significantly different from now in terms of the proportion of meals that will have to be delivered to rooms? Is it the theory that because there is no table wait service in the Lounge people will refuse to go to the Lounge for meals, and mingle with their fellow travelers?

The Amtrak wording makes it sounds like all meals are supposed to be delivered to the room, and the passenger can decide to eat in the room or take it to the lounge where tables will be available first come first serve.

I would think that would increase the number of guests who choose to eat in their room.

The press release also says that they will be taking your prefered time to eat just as they do with dining car reservation now. From that, I take it the SCA's will spread out the meal delivery load vs getting slammed at once.