Amtrak's wine tasting under fire

[MattW]

As travelers start to head back from the holidays, many are doing it with free wine and food, paid for by tax dollars.

http://www.wsbtv.com/news/news/local/amtrak-serving-free-wine-food-paid-taxpayers/ncWHb/

Of course, the only time the news in Georgia has a story about Amtrak, it's a negative story! I was surprised to see this running, and personally I consider this practically a non-issue. I wonder how much Amtrak would lose if it didn't offer amenities like this? I'm afraid if some had it their way, Amtrak would be nothing but wooden seats nailed into a boxcar!

 

[haolerider]

What better time for a negative story about Amtrak than during the holiday season when TV viewership is down and newspapers are not read!

Although, the IG's recommendation to end these freebies is not a bad idea. The general public has no understanding of pricing...nor do the legislators....so anything that smacks of taxpayer dollars being "given away" should be avoided!

 

[montana mike]

What the writer does not understand is there is NO free lunch. The cost of these "events" is built into the sleeper tickets.

 

[Karl1459]

A misleading article at best. Are there any routes besides the CS which has wine tasting?

Personally, my wife and I do not care for wine, so any cost added to sleeper fare may contribute to a decision to go coach. Another down side is that the PPC is closed for those under 21 for the wine tasting. Amtrak does (or did) invite on a space available basis coach passengers for 10.00 (if i recall). I doubt if wine tasting is a deal maker or breaker for any trip.

An opportunity may be here for Amtrak though. IF and I repeat IF Amtrak could find winemakers who wished to feature their products there might be a way to have the wine supplied at no charge.

As to the "freebe" meals for sleeper... the 64 dollar question is does the extra sleeper fare offset the costs of extra cars, meals, and attendants? (Debated before without any clear answer).

 

[Paulus]

What the writer does not understand is there is NO free lunch. The cost of these "events" is built into the sleeper tickets.

It's not actually, the prices are not set with cost recovery of food and beverage in mind, but merely what the market will bear.

 

[SP&S]

A misleading article at best. Are there any routes besides the CS which has wine tasting?

Personally, my wife and I do not care for wine, so any cost added to sleeper fare may contribute to a decision to go coach. Another down side is that the PPC is closed for those under 21 for the wine tasting. Amtrak does (or did) invite on a space available basis coach passengers for 10.00 (if i recall). I doubt if wine tasting is a deal maker or breaker for any trip.

An opportunity may be here for Amtrak though. IF and I repeat IF Amtrak could find winemakers who wished to feature their products there might be a way to have the wine supplied at no charge.

As to the "freebe" meals for sleeper... the 64 dollar question is does the extra sleeper fare offset the costs of extra cars, meals, and attendants? (Debated before without any clear answer).

They have one on the Builder too. Seriously, how much can this cost? The car is there, the attendants are there, and it's not super-expensive wine or cheese. Surely the cost for a year must be less than Rep Mica's pay.

 

[lyke99]

Wine producers giving wine to Amtrak as a matter of product promotion may not be allowed by federal laws governing the production (and taxation) of alcohol. The wine (in quantities Amtrak would buy) probably needs to come through a distributor just as does most alcohol as required in the laws that ended prohibition.

My wife, my parents, and I have all enjoyed the wine and cheese tasting in our travels on the Empire Builder. It wouldn't stop us from traveling if there was a small charge or if it went away, but it does nicely break up the afternoon of the full day across North Dakota and Montana.

 

[OlympianHiawatha]

What the writer does not understand is there is NO free lunch. The cost of these "events" is built into the sleeper tickets.

Very true! There is enough "Meat" built into the Sleeper Fares to cover the costs of Meal Service. If you look at Sleeper Fares today versus pre-Amtrak when everybody who ate in the Diner paid, you will see the spread is much, much higher.

 

[dlagrua]

Free food and wine paid by the taxpayer!. This is yellow journalism at its best!

When sleeper passengers are paying as high as $1200 for sleeper accommodations, they deserve food and a glass or two of wine. Some ignorant people falsely accuse Amtrak as being the Orient Express. I wish that they would ride the train and see how stark the accommodations really are. We sleep on sleeping pads not thick mattresses in 50 year old railroad cars. The food may be decent but far from gourmet and you pay a high price for the hard drinks. Truth is that the railroad is not upscale but it serves America well while representing a minuscule percentage of the transportation budget.

 

[Paulus]

What the writer does not understand is there is NO free lunch. The cost of these "events" is built into the sleeper tickets.

Very true! There is enough "Meat" built into the Sleeper Fares to cover the costs of Meal Service. If you look at Sleeper Fares today versus pre-Amtrak when everybody who ate in the Diner paid, you will see the spread is much, much higher.

If memory serves, sleeper fares are about the same, adjusted for inflation.

Free food and wine paid by the taxpayer!. This is yellow journalism at its best!

When sleeper passengers are paying as high as $1200 for sleeper accommodations, they deserve food and a glass or two of wine. Some ignorant people falsely accuse Amtrak as being the Orient Express. I wish that they would ride the train and see how stark the accommodations really are. We sleep on sleeping pads not thick mattresses in 50 year old railroad cars. The food may be decent but far from gourmet and you pay a high price for the hard drinks. Truth is that the railroad is not upscale but it serves America well while representing a minuscule percentage of the transportation budget.

And just how much are they eating and drinking? The Auto Train's commissary cost is $52.89 per passenger; that $1200 gets a whole lot smaller when you look at it in terms of net revenue rather than gross revenue.

 

[Blackwolf]

I suppose that the "Free Tax-Payer Supported Food and Drink (wine & liquor) for the Rich" first-class passengers aboard airlines are any different? Because, you know, planes never receive a single dime of tax-payer money. hboy:

 

[the_traveler]

Amtrak does (or did) invite on a space available basis coach passengers for 10.00 (if i recall).

Your recall is correct. On the PPC, it was $5 for sleeper and $10 for coach. Now it is $-0- for sleeper and coach passengers are not allowed. (It's been that way for a couple of years I think.)

 

[Peter KG6LSE]

Amtrak does (or did) invite on a space available basis coach passengers for 10.00 (if i recall).

Your recall is correct. On the PPC, it was $5 for sleeper and $10 for coach. Now it is $-0- for sleeper and coach passengers are not allowed. (It's been that way for a couple of years I think.)

I would gladly pay 20 bucks to watch a movie and wine and cheese .

Tell me folks . is the theater ever full?

By the way the game car is missing all the games and the token dispenser from the CS I have been on the last few times this year .

I say put a WII down there and load games on it and Il can tell you there will be a Line ! to get in that car! ..

 

[Anderson]

(1) There are wine tastings on the CS, EB, and Auto Train.
(2) The Auto Train's commissary situation is complicated, to put it mildly, because unlike every other LD train they can't pool resources at a commissary on either end of their route. Every other LD train shares at least one end with another train (or several, in most cases...LAX, NYP, NOL, and CHI have multiple trains sharing their commissaries, both LD and in most cases SD).
(3) I ran the numbers a few years ago, comparing SCL's fares in the last five years pre-Amtrak with then-current fares to/from Orlando. Basically, sleeper fares hover about the same as the equivalent accommodations (i.e. a Bedroom is about the same as a "Deluxe Bedroom" was then), with high bucket being a bit higher and low bucket being lower On the coach side, fares are down by something like 50% on average vs. what they were in that era. Put another way, the taxpayers are arguably subsidizing low coach fares while sleeper passengers are pulling their own weight, with the sleepers' inability to turn things around largely down to a lack of equipment (I suspect very strongly that the Vacationer was a LOT longer than the Meteor or Star are today). The SunRail work isn't helping things at all, but it is far, far from the only issue slowing these trains down.

Edit: Just to explain, it seems likely that Amtrak could fill 6-8 sleepers per day on the Silvers to Florida in peak seasons. Honestly, there are probably peak-of-the-peak days where it would be closer to 10-12 (this wouldn't be daily, obviously, but at Christmas/Thanksgiving/peak school holidays?); even with slightly lower PPR, the sheer volume would do wonders. From what I can tell, the Silvers were definitely able to support this until a few sleepers were pulled away when the Heritage sleepers were retired.

In that vein, it isn't improbable that an "Orange Blossom Special" style train (maybe a second Auto Train that didn't absolutely require a car, but offered a connection of some kind to/from WAS and ORL) could generate a lot of business as well. The Auto Train is basically at capacity, the Meteor tends not to be far behind...it's a far, far cry from where we were in another time.

 

[AlanB]

It must have been a slow news day for them, as this story is simply a rehash of an earlier story. A story that we discussed here.

 

[Meat Puppet]

The Coast Starlight and Empire Builder wine and cheese brand names are well advertised on both the online and onboard print menus. I believe that is probably a trade off for free or close to free product and the wines on both trains don't retail for more than $12-$20 a bottle.

Auto Train doesnt advertise their brand names but I was on a few weeks ago and the whites and reds were in the $10-14 category at retail. The lounge attendant told me they went through 14 bottles for the free departure wine. So

lets call it $12 a bottle at quantity 14 and we have $168 spend for pre departure wine for sleeping car passengers whom are paying prime rate for their accomidation.

Auto Train needs to hook up with a wine and cheese distributor , advertise the wine well and place their product on the auto trains webiste and onboard menu's in exchange for a deep discount on product.

I highly doubt that the CS or EB pay anything for their wine since their advertising the brand names onboard far surpasses the vauie of the wines.

 

[Anderson]

Well, and there would also be the option of working out some sort of agreement to include order forms from the wineries in question (or at least a brochure with contact information and other wines from the winery in question) in some sort of arrangement, too. I'll note that while on the CS and EB, it's done as a wine tasting, on the Auto Train it was much more of a "wine reception" than a tasting per se.

 

[OlympianHiawatha]

And don't forget the wine that is poured in the Diner on the Lake Shore before departure from Chicago.

As mentioned earlier liquor laws can get very tricky and confusing on this and may dictate how Amtrak gets the Wine and what they can and cannot do with it regarding serving and marketing. But it would be nice to have a "low profile" tie in with the various Wineries and Cheese Makers if they can be allowed to sponsor the pourings.

Now how about some of Tim Smith's Climax Moonshine on the Crescent

 

[Bob Dylan]

Be interesting to see the Next Anti-Amtrak hearing that Rep. Mica holds! After a Workout in the House Gym and a Gourmet Breakfast in the House Cafe with his Staff, (all Tax Payer Funded!)he'll probably quote this Warmed over Piece of Yellow So Called Journalism Garbage, Rant and Rave about the Tax Payers Subsidizing First Class Luxury Travel, then Hop in a Limo, have a Gourmet Lunch @ some Swanky Washington Bistro with a Lobbyist and Brag about Being a Budget Hawk while Sipping Champagne!Later he'll Fly First Class or on a Private Jet home to Florida after a Tough 3 day Work Week in Hades on the Potomac! Be Interesting to know if he's Ever Even Been on an Amtrak LD Train or Eaten in a Diner? (Maybe Acela FC to NYP @ our Expense! ) These Congress Critters Have No Shame! :help:

 

[dlagrua]

That man is a hypocrite. He lives the high life and is paid with taxpayer money and he has the nerve to single out Amtrak. I guess the rules of austerity apply only to the "little people" who travel on Amtrak.

 

[railiner]

.

(2) The Auto Train's commissary situation is complicated, to put it mildly, because unlike every other LD train they can't pool resources at a commissary on either end of their route. Every other LD train shares at least one end with another train (or several, in most cases...LAX, NYP, NOL, and CHI have multiple trains sharing their commissaries, both LD and in most cases SD)..

Slightly off topic, but did the Sunset Limited share the Sanford commissary on the years it ran there?

 

[pennyk]

Yesterday, a local Orlando tv station ran a story about the wine tastings on the Auto Train (out of Sanford, which is in the Orlando tv market). Rep. Mica is a local Congressman here.

 

[AlanB]

.

(2) The Auto Train's commissary situation is complicated, to put it mildly, because unlike every other LD train they can't pool resources at a commissary on either end of their route. Every other LD train shares at least one end with another train (or several, in most cases...LAX, NYP, NOL, and CHI have multiple trains sharing their commissaries, both LD and in most cases SD)..

Slightly off topic, but did the Sunset Limited share the Sanford commissary on the years it ran there?

Yes.

 

[afigg]

I would gladly pay 20 bucks to watch a movie and wine and cheese .

Tell me folks . is the theater ever full?

By the way the game car is missing all the games and the token dispenser from the CS I have been on the last few times this year .

I say put a WII down there and load games on it and Il can tell you there will be a Line ! to get in that car! ..

As a side note, the FY2012 PRIIA PIP report for the Coast Starlight recommended placing business class seats in the arcade space for sale as a new premium coach/business class for the CS. One way to add more capacity and gain additional revenue for the LA to Bay area and Portland to Seattle markets. A WII in the arcade is not likely to add much revenue and would become another set of items to maintain and service. The report was nominally completed in September, 2012, so they have been taking their time putting in the seats.
As for the wine and cheese tasting, it is really a stupid thing for the IG and the press to attack, because it is a very common sort of comp that is done in the hospitality or resort business all the time. If Amtrak is to be run as a business, then they need to add a few frills to attract the premium or sleeper class customers. If Mica were put in charge of a casino or resort, he would not be in charge long if the first thing he did was to cancel comps for the best customers as a cost cutting measure.

 

[jacorbett70]

This story is still making the rounds. The local NBC-10 ran it on this evening's news, with an advance teaser saying even if you never ride an Amtrak train, you could be paying for the food they are serving aboard. Mica was interviewed for the story.