Analysis of the Gardner/Harris May '23 train rides, intentions, speculations

[Willbridge]

Who as far as we know never actually said that, it was attributed to her as part of the general anti-royalty feeling at the time of the French Revolution,

Yes it would be ideal if the top brass at Amtrak were to mingle with the people and see how things actually are on the ground. Sadly this is too rare in any company, not just Amtrak. At least they are actually experiencing the train trip and not just flying.

Don't you think that "Let them eat brownies!" would be more approprié à cette situation?

 

[zephyr17]

Don't you think that "Let them eat brownies!" would be more approprié à cette situation?

Let then eat (butter) cake.

 

[TinCan782]

From a Roger Harris post on Linkedin (5/24/23):


Roger Harris President at Amtrak
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"I just spent five days crossing the USA with our CEO, Stephen Gardner, visiting employees and meeting customers on three of our less well known routes, The Cardinal, Texas Eagle and Sunset Limited. We traveled through the Appalachians, along the Ohio to Chicago, down through St Louis, the Ozarks, Dallas/Ft. Worth, Austin, the Rio Grande and along the Southern Border to Los Angeles. Phew, what a trip! Great people, great team, great journey!
#amtrak #trains #sustainability"

 

[Bob Dylan]

From a Roger Harris post on Linkedin (5/24/23):

Roger Harris President at Amtrak
Follow
"I just spent five days crossing the USA with our CEO, Stephen Gardner, visiting employees and meeting customers on three of our less well known routes, The Cardinal, Texas Eagle and Sunset Limited. We traveled through the Appalachians, along the Ohio to Chicago, down through St Louis, the Ozarks, Dallas/Ft. Worth, Austin, the Rio Grande and along the Southern Border to Los Angeles. Phew, what a trip! Great people, great team, great journey!
#amtrak #trains #sustainability"

Not mentioned in the PR Release:

We really enjoyed our Meals prepared by our Chef and served by our hand picked Attendant in our Private Car Beechgrove.

Also, we slept like Babies in our Private Rooms, which were not part of the Regular Train consist.

 

[rs9]

From a Roger Harris post on Linkedin (5/24/23):

Roger Harris President at Amtrak
Follow
"I just spent five days crossing the USA with our CEO, Stephen Gardner, visiting employees and meeting customers on three of our less well known routes, The Cardinal, Texas Eagle and Sunset Limited. We traveled through the Appalachians, along the Ohio to Chicago, down through St Louis, the Ozarks, Dallas/Ft. Worth, Austin, the Rio Grande and along the Southern Border to Los Angeles. Phew, what a trip! Great people, great team, great journey!
#amtrak #trains #sustainability"

Perhaps I'm interpreting this the wrong way, but this post makes it sounds like some parts of Amtrak's network are a novelty.

 

[AmtrakFlyer]

I find the “less known routes” comments very troubling.

Those 3 trains were very well traveled/popular prior to Anderson/Gardner/Coscia dismantling them with shorter consists, flexible dining, removal of lounge car (Eagle) and killing off Tempo. Tempo is a head scratcher to me.

 

[user 14106]

I find the “less known routes” comments very troubling.

I think you’re over analyzing his comment. Seemed pretty innocuous to me - like something I’d typically expect to see on LinkedIn.

 

[zephyr17]

Perhaps I'm interpreting this the wrong way, but this post makes it sounds like some parts of Amtrak's network are a novelty.

Yeah, same impression I got.

Also the "Phew!" like he was in some kind of marathon. Probably would have been an "AAAARGH!" if he'd have to consume Flex.

 

[Sidney]

Mr. Harris did not mention how he enjoyed the passing scenery in the Sightseer Car on The Texas Eagle or how wonderful flex dining was on the Cardinal and Eagle.

 

[AmtrakFlyer]

I think you’re over analyzing his comment. Seemed pretty innocuous to me - like something I’d typically expect to see on LinkedIn.

Unfortunately, I think it’s a set up for these trains discontinuance with the House poised to cut Amtrak funding as soon as this week. We all know these 3 trains are Amtrak managements least loved trains. The comments are earily similar to Andersons comments after riding the Coast Starlight and the lovely Parlour cars.
As with everything with this management don’t trust what they say but the actions and end results. Another year has passed and I honestly don’t think we have a net gain in the long distance fleet. It was a staffing issue at BG now it’s a “the cars aren’t economically viable” issue. It looks to me and this is my opinion but we are on course to implement Andersons/Gardners original plan from 2018 of less long distance trains with the ones remaining having upgraded service, ie full dining. The other factor that stands out is the feet dragging that’s taking place ordering long distance equipment. The corridor Airos and new Acelas were placed without any undue delays. I remember when Amtrak was within days of shutting down under Gunn. Even at that time I didn’t have as bad feeling as I do now. When Amtrak doesn’t get its full budget I don’t expect Gardner to the Board to put up the fight that virtually all past Amtrak CEOs have had to do. We’re kidding ourselves thinking Amtrak can succeed with the current management and BOD. Yes, again this is mostly my opinion but I think I’ve backed up the reason I feel the way I do. I hope I’m wrong.

 

[user 14106]

Amtrak has announced their intention to pursue daily Sunset and Cardinal through the infrastructure bill even without the results of the long distance study - doesn’t really sound like wanting to cut them to me.

 

[Just-Thinking-51]

Amtrak has announced their attention to pursue daily Sunset and Cardinal through the infrastructure bill even without the results of the long distance study - doesn’t really sound like wanting to cut them to me.

Missed that announcement. So what action have they actually taken to go daily? A meeting with the host railway? Do you really need funding to get 7 days a week service. What if any capacity, or capital expenditure would be required. Or are they just asking for money to study it?

 

[OBS]

Missed that announcement. So what action have they actually taken to go daily? A meeting with the host railway? Do you really need funding to get 7 days a week service. What if any capacity, or capital expenditure would be required. Or are they just asking for money to study it?

Great opportunity for some "studies"....

 

[Amtrakfflyer]

Not mentioned in the PR Release:

We really enjoyed our Meals prepared by our Chef and served by our hand picked Attendant in our Private Car Beechgrove.

Also, we slept like Babies in our Private Rooms, which were not part of the Regular Train consist.

Remember this was a special trip requiring amenities and food not offered to normal passengers because “nobody rides end to end“ especially two trains in a row, phew! Out of touch.

 

[MARC Rider]

Mr. Harris did not mention how he enjoyed the passing scenery in the Sightseer Car on The Texas Eagle or how wonderful flex dining was on the Cardinal and Eagle.

Actually, if I were forced to permanently eliminate at sightseer lounge from one train, I'd probably pick the Texas Eagle. I've ridden the Texas Eagle when they had a sightseer lounge, and, to be honest, the only decent scenery was the view of the St. Louis Gateway Arch and the St. Louis city skyline just north of St. Louis. That said, there should be some sort of lounge/cafe car, open to passengers all day, and also traditional dining service. If the passenger loads were low, that could be a single CCC car, but they need to allow passengers to hang out there between meals, and they need to be able to serve doth dining and cafe passengers at the same time. My last trip on the Capitol, all they had was a CCC car, and they were OK with people hanging out there, which was almost as good as a Sightseer Lounge. (But of course, all they had was flex dining for sleeper passengers and limited hours of service in the cafe, which wasn't so good.)

 

[Sidney]

Actually, if I were forced to permanently eliminate at sightseer lounge from one train, I'd probably pick the Texas Eagle. I've ridden the Texas Eagle when they had a sightseer lounge, and, to be honest, the only decent scenery was the view of the St. Louis Gateway Arch and the St. Louis city skyline just north of St. Louis. That said, there should be some sort of lounge/cafe car, open to passengers all day, and also traditional dining service. If the passenger loads were low, that could be a single CCC car, but they need to allow passengers to hang out there between meals, and they need to be able to serve doth dining and cafe passengers at the same time. My last trip on the Capitol, all they had was a CCC car, and they were OK with people hanging out there, which was almost as good as a Sightseer Lounge. (But of course, all they had was flex dining for sleeper passengers and limited hours of service in the cafe, which wasn't so good.)

Ideally,both the Eagle and the Capitol Limited should have a Sightseer. They both used to, but I would pick the Capitol Ltd to be the one train without a Sightseer. Only reason is that the Eagle is almost twice as long and Coach passengers need a place to go to on that long a trip.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

Actually, if I were forced to permanently eliminate at sightseer lounge from one train, I'd probably pick the Texas Eagle. I've ridden the Texas Eagle when they had a sightseer lounge, and, to be honest, the only decent scenery was the view of the St. Louis Gateway Arch and the St. Louis city skyline just north of St. Louis.

It seems like you're always ready to volunteer services and amenities that will have little or no impact on you. I've never seen you suggest your hometown services when something "must" be sacrificed for the greater good. Maybe next time you could offer to give away something from your own neck of the woods and let the rest of us decide if we want to give away our services for your benefit.

 

[west point]

All LD routes need marketing especially these three. However chicken and egg. ""We can fill these short consists so why get longer consists that will need marketing"

 

[Amtrakfflyer]

Let’s focus our energies on main issue here, 75 percent of us don’t like how Amtrak is run. It’s great management got out of DC and rode some trains. Whether their intentions were true or not is up for debate. Personally for me Harris’s linked in comments set off alarm bells and I’m doubling down on my advocacy this week.

 

[MARC Rider]

Ideally,both the Eagle and the Capitol Limited should have a Sightseer. They both used to, but I would pick the Capitol Ltd to be the one train without a Sightseer. Only reason is that the Eagle is almost twice as long and Coach passengers need a place to go to on that long a trip.

Yeah, but a CCC would work just as well for that.

 

[user 14106]

The thing I find ironic is that many of us here have complained about how they never go out and interact with passengers and crew out on the network. Now that they’ve done it we’re all complaining about how it was done and even some conspiracy theories about the purpose of the trip. Sometimes things are simply what they are advertised as. I think there are issues that go on at Amtrak warrant criticism of decision making and certainly decisions are made that occasionally call into question whether decisions are always being made competently and those involved in advocacy needs to be paying attention to what goes on - but I think on this one I really have nothing to criticize. They went out on the network and interacted with crew and employees. Yes they didn’t sit in coach or take rooms in the regular sleeper and eat flex food. There are some perks that come with being the boss - particularly the top bosses - like it or not that comes with being the boss and is just a reality of business.

 

[zephyr17]

The thing I find ironic is that many of us here have complained about how they never go out and interact with passengers and crew out on the network. Now that they’ve done it we’re all complaining about how it was done and even some conspiracy theories about the purpose of the trip. Sometimes things are simply what they are advertised as. I think there are issues that go on at Amtrak warrant criticism of decision making and certainly decisions are made that occasionally call into question whether decisions are always being made competently and those involved in advocacy needs to be paying attention to what goes on - but I think on this one I really have nothing to criticize. They went out on the network and interacted with crew and employees. Yes they didn’t sit in coach or take rooms in the regular sleeper and eat flex food. There are some perks that come with being the boss - particularly the top bosses - like it or not that comes with being the boss and is just a reality of business.

Since they rode in a biz car I think the degree to which they actually were interacting with passengers and front line employees is the issue. Sure they probably passed through the train for quick meet'n greets. How much that informed them about the realities aboard the LDs is quite questionable, since they likely spent most of their time insulated from it. I think that is the crux of the question for most of us Amtrak management skeptics rather than conspiracy theories.

That would not really be in question had they ridden a standard sleeper, even one added for the occasion (while allowing any excess space be purchased by revenue passengers), and especially ate standard Amtrak food.

We had a a philosophy where I worked that we should "eat our own dog food" including the execs. That meant all of us should experience the same customer experience that our customers would, insofar as possible. It would appear that Amtrak management doesn't subscribe to such a philosophy. Especially since on the Card and Eagle it involved actual rather than metaphorical dog food (Flex).

 

[MARC Rider]

It seems like you're always ready to volunteer services and amenities that will have little or no impact on you. I've never seen you suggest your hometown services when something "must" be sacrificed for the greater good. Maybe next time you could offer to give away something from your own neck of the woods and let the rest of us decide if we want to give away our services for your benefit.

None of my "hometown services" have sightseer lounges. (My home station is Baltimore, where both the Baltimore tunnels and the NY Penn Station tunnels prevent the use of Superliners or dome cars.)

 

[zephyr17]

None of my "hometown services" have sightseer lounges. (My home station is Baltimore, where both the Baltimore tunnels and the NY Penn Station tunnels prevent the use of Superliners or dome cars.)

Yeah, unfortunately even single level long distance trains have no lounge cars worthy of the name. The Amcafes are a poor substitute and would be even if crews didn't habitually homestead the tables.

Even the mutant Superliner Diner/Lounges that Amtrak mutilated from diners, a design I quite dislike, are better.

They've pretty much not had good lounge cars since the original, RR inherited, lounges were retired.

I've long thought that a modern lounge along the lines of a Seaboard Sun Lounge would be a good approach. That would be something akin to a single level Sightseer. Unfortunately, there's nothing like it out there.

 

[user 14106]

It seems like you're always ready to volunteer services and amenities that will have little or no impact on you. I've never seen you suggest your hometown services when something "must" be sacrificed for the greater good. Maybe next time you could offer to give away something from your own neck of the woods and let the rest of us decide if we want to give away our services for your benefit.

I think most people would agree that they all should have Sightseers - but assuming for a moment that the car shortage is legitimate, the Capitol Limited and Texas Eagle were the appropriate to drop. I'd probably say Texas Eagle should be a bigger priority over the Capitol but definitely neither over any of the trains currently operating with them. Having said all that I certainly support bringing them back to both if the cars are there once they get back in service. Another problem remains the Chicago - Carbondale service. Until a solution is found to get that off Superliners and transition it to the Venture cars you're going to continue to have to put revenue Superliners or non revenue superliners like diners and sightseers behind its Superliner coaches for axle count - resolving that given the current status of Superliners in the fleet would be immensely helpful.