Another study of Gulf Coast rail proposed

[west point]

The daily train was completely forgotten. Actually it should be the PRIIA plan and make it a daily train from San Antonia - Miami. Along with a daily Eagle to LAX. That would probably reduce overall loss much more. As well you do not have the problem of 4 - /2 days for equipment with out servicing. Still have the problem of overnight NOL - JAX. As well single level equipment could come available sooner.

In distant future maybe a 2nd train 12 hours different from this train. That way a overnight LD train ( sleeper) to cover this route and a connection ( thru car ) to the Crescent..

 

[Guest]

Could the SL or some other train operated from NO to ORL operate over tracks owned by a class

2 railroad. In Atmore, which is 48 miles due north of Pensacola you have a junction of the Alabama & Gulf Coast Railroad and CSX. It would require some backing but there is a wye to turn the train in the proper direction. The distance to back from the wye to the shack Amtrak has in Atmore is a quarter mile at most. I do not know the class of the AGR tracks. They are mostly flat and straight and there is probably more that one train a day in each direction on the GAR track.

Looking at the last timetable when the SL was suspended, if this could be done, you could maybe save about 30 to 45 minutes westbound and about 2 hours eastbound timewise.

Bring back the Sunset Limited.

Flat and straight?? Better look at the map more closely. Flat yes, but so is the CSX out of Flomaton. Distance saving would be under 10 miles because Atmore to Pensacola is longer than Flomaton to Pensacola. The connection between the GAR (former Frisco line) is more difficult than on the Atmore end. This line was either 25 mph or 35 mph in Frisco days. It is unlikely to be more now. Savings would probably be somewhere between none and under 10 minutes. Could even take more time. I have no idea how you could even guess at 2 hours eastbound.

 

[Bus Nut]

There is a strong bus coach market Jax-Gainesville-Tallahassee. But Pensacola is a much smaller town.

Speaking from northern Florida, I'd rather see a train start up from Jacksonville to Atlanta, GA. There is already an Amtrak train from ATL to NOL.

I took the 'Hound to ATL from Florida (multiple bus coach companies offer this service, some O/D's are non-stop) but then had to stay overnight in world's shadiest motel to catch Amtrak in the morning. Yuck.

ATL is the biggest city around outside FLA and massively underserved by Amtrak. The Gulf Coast is kind of ... sleepy.

I live down here and this affects me but ya know what? I'd rather see a daily Card first. JM2c.

 

[Bus Nut]

I know rail in GA sounds like pie in the sky, but it's much more likely than AL, MS, or LA getting the choo choo religion.

Youth in GA, at the colleges, have been pushing (so far unsuccessfully) for commuter rail on a corridor from ATL to Athens.

There are pushes for investigation into rail from ATL/Macon to Savannah.

Georgia's demographics are changing rapidly. Its population is much larger than AL and MS (and so is its economy) and it has two big blue cities pushing politics in a more pro-transit direction.

ATL's inner ring suburbs are changing demographically and going pro-transit and pro-MARTA. ATL's inner neighborhoods are being redeveloped and a streetcar service just opened in a historic district.

Florida will be getting HSR soon. Georgia residents and pols will be looking across the border and having infrastructure envy.

In 10 years? Don't count GA out.

 

[xyzzy]

Guest_Bus Nut might be right, but I lived in Atlanta for many years and I remember a demo train Atlanta-Macon-Savannah in 1980. Lots of back slapping and optimism, no follow through. Likewise, commuter trains are all talk no action. 35 years later, Atlanta is still constrained by Peachtree Station despite many proposals to build a replacement, both before and after the Olympics. I'll believe it when I see it.

As for the AGR Atmore-Pensacola, there's nothing to be gained there. Not only is it slow (and not all arrow-straight), there is no hope of getting it PTC'd. Furthermore there's no good way to cross over to CSX in Pensacola to continue the run eastward or even to reach the Amtrak/ex-L&N station. AGR is on one side of four-lane US 29, and CSX is on the other side. Crossing over would require another backup move of half a mile through an industrial yard that serves a paper mill.

 

[west point]

Pensacola ? Although this will get city fathers screaming just by pass Pensacola. A 17 mile by pass would eliminate ~ 45 - 50 miles of multiple grade crossings, street running, slow track around the bluffs, the bridge over the bay. AFAICR it took over 1-1/2 hours to cover this distance + station stop for the Sunset.. CSX certainly would like that reduction for its freights. This bypass would probably cost less than upgrading either from Atmore or Flomaton.

 

[Caesar La Rock]

If the Sunset or whatever runs east of NOL does happen, it should be supplemented by a day train. I've heard the Peachtree station is an adequate to split the Crescent. Birmingham might be the place to split the Crescent. This was done back when the Gulf Breeze ran.

The separate day train can then operate to Mobile before terminating in New Orleans (with intermediate stops of course). Just an idea incase this does happen, but as I've mentioned earlier, I'm not really optimistic about this, yet.

As for where the equipment will come from for the day train, soon the Horizon and Amfleet cars operating in the midwest and in California will be surplus from the Nippon Sharyo bi-level coach order. By then there will be enough Baggage cars/baggage dorms to utilize too.

 

[xyzzy]

17 miles of virgin construction in the swamp land that floods whenever there's a hurricane would probably be $75M. It would have to cross the Escambia River State Wildlife Management Area, and environmentalists would surely oppose it. You'd also have to figure out exactly where the bypass would rejoin CSX in the Pace-Milton vicinity, and it's highly probable that homeowners would have to be bought out. You wouldn't want to compound the political problem with environmentalists by building over the Blackwater River Water Management Area too. I can't see it.

Splitting the Crescent at Birmingham is easy. Running B'ham-Montgomery-Mobile is easy, assuming you can rebuild a station in Mobile (it's gone). Amtrak did that in the 1990s with no operational difficulty. But extending the train B'ham-Mtgy-Mobile-NoLa will make for a late arrival as well as a very early departure for the northbound via Mobile. I can't see that happening, either. Plus there's the question of funding from Alabama who would be the major beneficiary and therefore under the squeeze for the most funding.

 

[Caesar La Rock]

17 miles of virgin construction in the swamp land that floods whenever there's a hurricane would probably be $75M. It would have to cross the Escambia River State Wildlife Management Area, and environmentalists would surely oppose it. You'd also have to figure out exactly where the bypass would rejoin CSX in the Pace-Milton vicinity, and it's highly probable that homeowners would have to be bought out. You wouldn't want to compound the political problem with environmentalists by building over the Blackwater River Water Management Area too. I can't see it.

Splitting the Crescent at Birmingham is easy. Running B'ham-Montgomery-Mobile is easy, assuming you can rebuild a station in Mobile (it's gone). Amtrak did that in the 1990s with no operational difficulty. But extending the train B'ham-Mtgy-Mobile-NoLa will make for a late arrival as well as a very early departure for the northbound via Mobile. I can't see that happening, either. Plus there's the question of funding from Alabama who would be the major beneficiary and therefore under the squeeze for the most funding.

Oh yeah, I forgot Mobile doesn't have a station as it was torn down by CSX. Thanks for reminding me about that. I should of remembered that anyway, since an Amtrak employee did tell me that, years ago.

As for the late and early departures, that's the one flaw in that entire plan there. The Crescent's current schedule I assume is perfect the way it is, so it wouldn't be a good idea to change it in anyway. Maybe if the train was separate rather than having through cars from the Crescent it would work.