Another try with sleeper buses

[MARC Rider]

You meant to say CO exposure I suppose, as in Carbon Monoxide?

Actually, CO2 is also a component of diesel exhaust and it can be toxic in a high enough concentration (especially if there isn't much oxygen.) I once used a pulse oximeter when wearing a mask, and while my blood oxygen level was perfectly fine, I felt like I was suffocating. I asked my doctor about it, and he said that was probably from the enriched CO2 levels of my exhalations that were being caught behind the mask and being rebreathed by me. Nothing like self-experimentation.

But, yeh, normally when one thinks of being harmed by gases from fuel combustion, the real culprit is probably CO, Not CO2.

 

[Willbridge]

Many years ago I heard that, about the same time as Pickwick Stages overnight service, Greyhound tried to start up an overnight SF to LA sleeper bus. According the story, on it's first run into LA it was discovered that all the passengers upon arrival in LA, had died of carbon monoxide poisoning. Greyhound neglected to factor that into it's bus design.

That ended Greyhound's attempt at sleeper bus service.

Has anyone else heard this? Any truth to it?

I never heard of that. The route seems plausible for a test, so perhaps there was a problem identified and the story grew from some real event.

 

[NYP2NFL01]

You meant to say CO exposure I suppose, as in Carbon Monoxide?

Yep! I got carbon dioxide (CO2) confused with carbon monoxide (CO). Plus I’d watched an Apollo 13 documentary on the build-up of CO2 in the Lunar Module and the DIY fix to correct the problem!

 

[Bob Dylan]

Many years ago I heard that, about the same time as Pickwick Stages overnight service, Greyhound tried to start up an overnight SF to LA sleeper bus. According the story, on it's first run into LA it was discovered that all the passengers upon arrival in LA, had died of carbon monoxide poisoning. Greyhound neglected to factor that into it's bus design.

That ended Greyhound's attempt at sleeper bus service.

Has anyone else heard this? Any truth to it?

Sounds like one of those Urban Legends that typically prove to be untrue.

 

[NYP2NFL01]

Wow! This was like 1964. I was four years old at the time. But, I seem to remember Turkey sandwiches served by female attendants with really nice uniforms. I seem to remember the female attendants more than the food!

Do you have any memory of what the meal service was like? My trip was from Columbus, Ohio to New York City. I think we were served dinner and breakfast and the same on the return trip to Columbus.

 

[Dakota 400]

Wow! This was like 1964. I was four years old at the time. But, I seem to remember Turkey sandwiches served by female attendants with really nice uniforms. I seem to remember the female attendants more than the food!

Thanks for replying. When I think back to when I was that age, I don't recall much either.

 

[jiml]

Jeb Brooks seemed to like it

Luxury Bus Washington to New York

While catching up with this thread I was going to post that very link.

 

[jiml]

Sounds like one of those Urban Legends that typically prove to be untrue.

Indeed. If that many people had died in one occurrence it would be a much better-known story.

 

[Jack Davis]

The service was especially useful for sending unaccompanied minor's.

My dad & I rode the Golden Eagle from L.A. to Seattle to go to the Seattle World's Fair in 1962. Lunch & 'dinner' were served onboard by an attendant. NO sleeper, just recliners. I went with my dad when he stopped at Union Station, Greyhound and Trailways looking for any 'specials' going to the fair and Trailways is the only carrier that offered anything 'special.' Reserved seats, meals on board, hotel stay assistance while there, and some other perks I don't recall. (Breakfast was in a real restaurant somewhere on the way) It left L.A. at 9 a.m. and arrived in Seattle the next day at around 3:50 p.m.

 

[railiner]

My dad & I rode the Golden Eagle from L.A. to Seattle to go to the Seattle World's Fair in 1962. Lunch & 'dinner' were served onboard by an attendant. NO sleeper, just recliners. I went with my dad when he stopped at Union Station, Greyhound and Trailways looking for any 'specials' going to the fair and Trailways is the only carrier that offered anything 'special.' Reserved seats, meals on board, hotel stay assistance while there, and some other perks I don't recall. (Breakfast was in a real restaurant somewhere on the way) It left L.A. at 9 a.m. and arrived in Seattle the next day at around 3:50 p.m.

That’s how they did it. On the transcontinental Five Star trip, the hostess served sandwiches, hot and cold beverages, fruits and cookies, as well as hot soups. At breakfast time, she would distribute vouchers to pay for hot breakfast inside the terminal restaurants.

The Golden Eagles featured extra legroom, but not 2&1 seating like some of the more luxurious examples shown above. The earlier type ‘01’ Golden Eagles, did offer a 9 passenger “observation lounge” in the far rear, separated from the revenue seats by the lav on one side, and the galley on the other.

 

[Willbridge]

On the West Coast line at various times there were three LAX<>SEA Golden Eagles and a SFO<>PDX "daylight" run that after a spell of Brill highway coaches for a while was a Golden Eagle service. Later it was a Silver Eagle. By 1974 they had 1 Los Angeles - Seattle Golden Eagle, 2 Los Angeles - Seattle Silver Eagles and the 1 San Francisco - Portland Silver Eagle.

Just looking at northbound, in the Aug 74 Official Bus Guide, GL had 1 Los Angeles to Seattle run, 1 Los Angeles to Van BC run, 1 San Diego to Van BC run, 1 San Diego to Portland run, 1 Long Beach to Seattle run, and 1 Los Angeles to Portland run. They also had 2 SF to Van BC runs, 2 SF to Seattle runs, 1 SF to Spokane run, and 1 SF to Portland run.

Getting back to the question of sleeper buses and looking at the Trailways schedules, the inflexibility of the sleeper buses to provide daytime travel with higher passenger capacity must have been a factor. The service attendant provided more value for daytime travel than low-density passenger counts would have.

The Napaway bus has flexibility but their model doesn't include intermediate daytime stops vs. Trailways which did.

 

[railiner]

In the 1970's, Continental Trailways in Wichita converted a few of their Silver Eagles into sleeper buses for charters for a ski club that would leave Wichita on a Friday afternoon, travel overnight to various Colorado ski resorts arriving early enough on a Saturday morning to yield a full day of skiiing. The group would stay over Saturday night at a ski lodge, get in another full day of skiing on Sunday, then leave late Sunday afternoon for the overnight trip back to Wichita, arriving early enough Monday morning to get to work. The package for members was very reasonable. It might seem like a grueling ordeal to some, but the members were all young twenty-somethings...

The conversion was to fit Pullman style sections whose seats would fold down into lower berths, while the uppers were dropped down from above. The package racks were all removed to allow this installation. There were a total of 20 berths would could accommodate up to 40 if the berthmates were 'friendly'....

These buses sat unused in the Wichita garage the rest of the week....

 

[Jack Davis]

That’s how they did it. On the transcontinental Five Star trip, the hostess served sandwiches, hot and cold beverages, fruits and cookies, as well as hot soups. At breakfast time, she would distribute vouchers to pay for hot breakfast inside the terminal restaurants.

The Golden Eagles featured extra legroom, but not 2&1 seating like some of the more luxurious examples shown above. The earlier type ‘01’ Golden Eagles, did offer a 9 passenger “observation lounge” in the far rear, separated from the revenue seats by the lav on one side, and the galley on the other.

Then we were on an 'earlier model' because it had the rear "observation Lounge" with the lav and galley in front of it. I went back there for a short time, the upper 'pull open' windows were open as some people smoked. (Remember this was in 1962).

 

[Jack Davis]

In the 1970's, Continental Trailways in Wichita converted a few of their Silver Eagles into sleeper buses for charters for a ski club that would leave Wichita on a Friday afternoon, travel overnight to various Colorado ski resorts arriving early enough on a Saturday morning to yield a full day of skiiing. The group would stay over Saturday night at a ski lodge, get in another full day of skiing on Sunday, then leave late Sunday afternoon for the overnight trip back to Wichita, arriving early enough Monday morning to get to work. The package for members was very reasonable. It might seem like a grueling ordeal to some, but the members were all young twenty-somethings...

The conversion was to fit Pullman style sections whose seats would fold down into lower berths, while the uppers were dropped down from above. The package racks were all removed to allow this installation. There were a total of 20 berths would could accommodate up to 40 if the berthmates were 'friendly'....

These buses sat unused in the Wichita garage the rest of the week....

The "grueling ordeal" was on the driver making the whole trip by himself, unless the task was accomplished by two drivers at a stop (driver change) along the way.?

 

[railiner]

The "grueling ordeal" was on the driver making the whole trip by himself, unless the task was accomplished by two drivers at a stop (driver change) along the way.?

We relieved the Wichita driver at Denver. He stayed over for the return trip. Sometimes the relief was at Pueblo, depending on the destination.

 

[railiner]

Then we were on an 'earlier model' because it had the rear "observation Lounge" with the lav and galley in front of it. I went back there for a short time, the upper 'pull open' windows were open as some people smoked. (Remember this was in 1962).

That sounds right. The last Golden Eagles, based on the 1969 design ‘05’ type Silver Eagles, had the lav in the conventional rear corner, with the galley next to it in the resr.
There were four facing seats around a ‘lounge’ table, in front of the galley, that were ‘non-revenue’.

 

[Mailliw]

Interesting design concept and it's on a route I could easily try. There is a market for overnight bus travel, even if the busses are just standard intercity ones. With this set up they could even decide to sell tickets for both seats and beds at different prices. Even only having 2:1 reclining seats makes overnight bus travel more appealing. You could get even more flexibility on routes that allow double-decker buses.

 

[George Harris]

The "grueling ordeal" was on the driver making the whole trip by himself, unless the task was accomplished by two drivers at a stop (driver change) along the way.?

Nope. Couldn't happen. There were, and still are, very specific rules by the ICC (Interstate Commerce Commission), now Department of Transportation, but not sure when that change of name occurred, that limited the maximum number of hours driving and minimum number hours rest for drivers.

 

[ehbowen]

Nope. Couldn't happen. There were, and still are, very specific rules by the ICC (Interstate Commerce Commission), now Department of Transportation, but not sure when that change of name occurred, that limited the maximum number of hours driving and minimum number hours rest for drivers.

Very true. Back when Trailways still operated a national network, there were always en route terminals, although they may have been operated by another Trailways franchisee company, where servicing could be performed and a rested, qualified driver obtained as the bus and passengers continued on.

Another poster here said some time back that, at these terminals, the bus itself may have changed! Apparently it was Trailways practice, when a long-distance route passed through the territories of multiple franchisees, to 'require' pax to leave the bus as it was driven away for 'servicing' (while they made a meal stop or extended break). The bus would be driven to a service garage, yes...where an identical bus would be ready to continue the trip, and Trailways employees would go through and transfer any passengers' personal effects from the old bus to the new bus, placing them in the same seat in the exact same position! Unless they read the fine print of the registration number and carrier on the side of the bus, the passengers were no wiser!

 

[railiner]

Very true. Back when Trailways still operated a national network, there were always en route terminals, although they may have been operated by another Trailways franchisee company, where servicing could be performed and a rested, qualified driver obtained as the bus and passengers continued on.

Another poster here said some time back that, at these terminals, the bus itself may have changed! Apparently it was Trailways practice, when a long-distance route passed through the territories of multiple franchisees, to 'require' pax to leave the bus as it was driven away for 'servicing' (while they made a meal stop or extended break). The bus would be driven to a service garage, yes...where an identical bus would be ready to continue the trip, and Trailways employees would go through and transfer any passengers' personal effects from the old bus to the new bus, placing them in the same seat in the exact same position! Unless they read the fine print of the registration number and carrier on the side of the bus, the passengers were no wiser!

That sounds like one of my earlier posts...the three locations that I recall that was practiced were Omaha, Wichita, and Amarillo on transcontinental thru schedules. It was only done when transcontinental pool schedules equipment was "home-shopped" at a mid-schedule point. And it was only done in one direction. There were other mid-schedule thru bus "home shops" such as Raleigh, but since there were many more schedules that ended there, they would turn thru trips into trips that ended or started there from the end points to avoid the mid-schedule "cut".
I would add that it was illegal to have passenger's on board, whenever they refueled inside a garage. Refueling on the outside with passenger's is permissible, as is done at some rest stop locations.

 

[ehbowen]

That sounds like one of my earlier posts...the three locations that I recall that was practiced were Omaha, Wichita, and Amarillo on transcontinental thru schedules. It was only done when transcontinental pool schedules equipment was "home-shopped" at a mid-schedule point. And it was only done in one direction. There were other mid-schedule thru bus "home shops" such as Raleigh, but since there were many more schedules that ended there, they would turn thru trips into trips that ended or started there from the end points to avoid the mid-schedule "cut".
I would add that it was illegal to have passenger's on board, whenever they refueled inside a garage. Refueling on the outside with passenger's is permissible, as is done at some rest stop locations.

Yes, that was most likely your post which I referenced. I didn't look it up and I didn't remember who posted it, but I did give credit to "another poster here." Good info; I learned something that day.

 

[jiml]

Jeb Brooks on Napaway:

 

[Qapla]

Jacksonville/Atlanta could use one of these - especially since Amtrak does not service Jax/ATL or JAX/NOL so the train has to go to WDC (and maybe Chicago) before going to NOL

 

[joelkfla]

Jacksonville/Atlanta could use one of these - especially since Amtrak does not service Jax/ATL or JAX/NOL so the train has to go to WDC (and maybe Chicago) before going to NOL

It's only a 5-hour drive. The bus would be leaving or arriving in the middle of the night.

 

[jiml]

I'd think you're looking for endpoints a minimum 8 hours drive apart, with 10 being the sweet spot, and intermediate stops would diminish the "Do Not Disturb" aspect of the service.