Are You Afraid Of Flying?

[Devil's Advocate]

...or an airline Flight Deck where "the Captain's word is law" and no other Officer dare challenge that he is missing a visual approach (Asiana SFO Jul '13).

I thought that "Cockpit Resource Management" training was supposed to correct that old culture....

According to the accident report Asiana’s problem was that it had poor to non-existent CRM in deference to Asian Culture if unquestioned obedience of the senior person. They have supposedly fixed this since then.

According to a documentary I watched the primary catalyst was a severe misunderstanding of auto-throttle recovery system. CRM has done a lot to improve safety but it's not a magic bullet. It can identify potential problems and solutions but it cannot force superiors and subordinates to interact effectively. South Korea has suffered from this sort of thing before but over time the culture of subservience seems to be changing. Perhaps not fast enough to prevent this particular event but it seems to be gaining speed and momentum over time.

 

[NEPATrainTraveler]

I'm not afraid to fly, but I find going through security to be a hassle. I also prefer the scenery on the ground instead of the view you get from flying. I had originally planned to fly this October because I assumed a sleeper was required for an overnight Amtrak train, but then I found out through this forum that coach wasn't that bad so I re-booked the first leg of my trip as Amtrak. Might do the same for the trip back home.

 

[JRR]

ehbowen:loved your First Flight with a Passenger story![emoji41]

Mine was in a Cessna 172 with my Wife and Daughter around the Hill Country,Canyon Lake followed by a Landing @ San Antonio International (SAT) for Dinner.

I made a Greaser of a Landing @ SAT and also upon returning home to San Marcos Loman Field.( now a Shopping Mall![emoji21]).

On the way to SAT I had to look out for T-38s zipping in/out of Randolph FAB and then Airline Traffic upon entering the San Antonio TCA.

Wonderful Memories are made from things like this!( My daughter is now 50 and she still talks about it!)

My first flight after getting my ticket was also memorable. A friend was with me when the tower at Lunken Airport in Cincinnati (affectionately known as “Sunken Lunken”), gave me a “clear for immediate take off” as I was holding just off the runway. I gave full throttle started to turn onto the runway and looked to my right and saw a green airplane right over the levee at the end of the runway! I immediately jammed both pedals down and cut the power and stood us on the nose wheel as the other plane roared past on the runway.

As I gathered myself together, the tower calmly advised me to “disregard 70 Zulu.”

I will say that I had a few choice words for the tower.

Clearly my training that the pilot is always in control and responsible, and that one always looks to assure that the way is clear before entering a runway, were reinforced by this experience!

Surprisingly, my friend still was willing to go up with me for a flight which from that point forward was pleasant!

 

[XHRTSP]

Although, to the best of my understanding the rougher the landing the more likely it was handled by an auto-land algorithm. Apparently auto-land focuses on firm planting for safety rather than soft landing for comfort.

A few months back I was on a double crew with a check airman and his student. One our first leg, IST-KWI, the student had a hard landing. And when us pilots say 'hard landing', we mean it was hard enough that the ride along mechanic has to inspect the aircraft to make sure nothing cracked or fell off.

On our second leg, KWI-DWC, another very firm landing. At this point the mechanic and loadmaster are getting visibly annoyed at having to suffer through these controlled crashes.

So here comes the third leg, DWC-IST. We're coming in and I'm in the back since as a relief captain I did most of the enroute flying, and I look over and the mechanic and load are holding on for dear life. Well it was a perfect smooth touchdown. 'Finally' the load yells.

I didn't want to but had to inform them it was the autoland. It is a requirement to do at least one during training.

 

[AutoTrDvr]

I'm not afraid of flying, I find it undesirable.

Perhaps question one should be re-worded/split.

Agreed. It's more the "lousier" service one gets these days, and the added costs of things that were once free, than anything else. They make me more "irritated" than "fearful." And "fear" could be contextually different. The only thing I might actually "fear" is:

1) The safety of the aircraft (i.e. is it properly maintained and airworthy and is the flight crew properly trained, well slept and sober, etc.); and -

2) The 'security" of the flight in re: Hijacking, terrorism, etc.

But, again, these are not necessarily "show stoppers." I simply might choose not to travel if I don't really have to, but I will if I must. And, again, the above doesn't just apply to air travel, but all public transportation.

 

[cpotisch]

ehbowen:loved your First Flight with a Passenger story![emoji41]

Mine was in a Cessna 172 with my Wife and Daughter around the Hill Country,Canyon Lake followed by a Landing @ San Antonio International (SAT) for Dinner.

I made a Greaser of a Landing @ SAT and also upon returning home to San Marcos Loman Field.( now a Shopping Mall![emoji21]).

On the way to SAT I had to look out for T-38s zipping in/out of Randolph FAB and then Airline Traffic upon entering the San Antonio TCA.

Wonderful Memories are made from things like this!( My daughter is now 50 and she still talks about it!)

My first flight after getting my ticket was also memorable. A friend was with me when the tower at Lunken Airport in Cincinnati (affectionately known as “Sunken Lunken”), gave me a “clear for immediate take off” as I was holding just off the runway. I gave full throttle started to turn onto the runway and looked to my right and saw a green airplane right over the levee at the end of the runway! I immediately jammed both pedals down and cut the power and stood us on the nose wheel as the other plane roared past on the runway.

As I gathered myself together, the tower calmly advised me to “disregard 70 Zulu.”

I will say that I had a few choice words for the tower.

Clearly my training that the pilot is always in control and responsible, and that one always looks to assure that the way is clear before entering a runway, were reinforced by this experience!

Surprisingly, my friend still was willing to go up with me for a flight which from that point forward was pleasant!

Yikes! How do you think they managed to screw that one up so badly?

 

[Bob Dylan]

You'd be surprised how many times @ busy contolled airports that this happens.

Sometimes the Left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing @ ATC!

 

[ehbowen]

William P. Hobby airport (HOU), where I learned to fly, is especially problematic in this regard. It was laid out in the 1930s; the four runways ALL cross at least two others, and the volume of traffic (it qualifies as a Class B Primary Airport on its own, although IAH across town is bigger and busier) is such that at times all four of them will be in service at the same time!

Prevailing winds in Houston are most frequently from the southeast, off the Gulf. When that is the case the tower will use the two parallels (13L & 13R) for arrivals and will use the 6000' runway 17 as supplemental space for jet departures for those aircraft whose performance makes it viable. However, the parallels are really too close for good separation...on my first night flight as a student landing on 12L a Southwest 737 on final for 12R got real nervous about us; "I don't see that Decathlon!" We had him, safely off to our right rear, but I can well believe that it's hard to pick out a single nav light and strobe in all that urban ground clutter.

When things really get busy and all four runways are in use, it's Katy Bar The Door. Fortunately we had some very good controllers...I spent quite a bit of time visiting the tower when I was a student and things were a lot looser from the security standpoint...but there are limits to what you can expect from even the best of them.

 

[JRR]

ehbowen:loved your First Flight with a Passenger story![emoji41]

Mine was in a Cessna 172 with my Wife and Daughter around the Hill Country,Canyon Lake followed by a Landing @ San Antonio International (SAT) for Dinner.

I made a Greaser of a Landing @ SAT and also upon returning home to San Marcos Loman Field.( now a Shopping Mall![emoji21]).

On the way to SAT I had to look out for T-38s zipping in/out of Randolph FAB and then Airline Traffic upon entering the San Antonio TCA.

Wonderful Memories are made from things like this!( My daughter is now 50 and she still talks about it!)

My first flight after getting my ticket was also memorable. A friend was with me when the tower at Lunken Airport in Cincinnati (affectionately known as “Sunken Lunken”), gave me a “clear for immediate take off” as I was holding just off the runway. I gave full throttle started to turn onto the runway and looked to my right and saw a green airplane right over the levee at the end of the runway! I immediately jammed both pedals down and cut the power and stood us on the nose wheel as the other plane roared past on the runway.
As I gathered myself together, the tower calmly advised me to “disregard 70 Zulu.”

I will say that I had a few choice words for the tower.

Clearly my training that the pilot is always in control and responsible, and that one always looks to assure that the way is clear before entering a runway, were reinforced by this experience!

Surprisingly, my friend still was willing to go up with me for a flight which from that point forward was pleasant!

Yikes! How do you think they managed to screw that one up so badly?

I believe the tower lost the green plane as it crossed the levy and forgot that it hadn’t landed yet.

The “clear for immediate takeoff” clearly referred to another plane on a final approach which was farther out, which also landed before I received another “clear for takeoff!

 

[RichieRich]

I shared a house in Ft. Lauderdale and commuted (JetBlue & Spirit) once-a-week to my job in DC. Did that for 2 years. Kept my "Florida" car permanently parked at FLL. Skied all over Europe. NOW...wouldn't catch me on a plane - lines, security, crowds, cramped seats... I still go to Orlando 8-times-a-year...but on the A/T. Haven't been to an airport in over 10 years and don't plan to start! LOL

 

[Pere Flyer]

Twenty-something here—member of Amtrak: The Next Generation and conscientious objector to car ownership. I go to school 1,000 miles away from home, and the nature of my work requires traveling to gigs and training programs at population centers around the country. Time being money, and all that, usually non-airborne modes are out of the question. I’m not afraid of flying, but I’m tired of flying. That’s why I travel Amtrak, commuter rail, or bus whenever I can—usually for short corridor trips or on vacation time. Hope to live nearer my folks than at present so I can take the rails more cheaply and more often, but also near an airport hub so I can fly direct when ordered.