Atlanta to Florida

[guest]

Has this route ever existed?

There are thousands people traveling every year from Florida to Georgia mountains

and from Georgia to Florida. It could be a great route considering it's not long.

Are there any plans to establish it?

 

[the_traveler]

Many (many) years ago, there was a route by some railroads between ATL and Florida. And I think that in the early years of Amtrak (like the 70's or 80's), there may have been one - but not in the last 20 years or so.

I think it would be a good route to have. Especially since now to go from Florida to ATL involves a routing via WAS and 2 night on the train. (Not that it's a problem for me! )

 

[George Harris]

There has been no Atlanta to Florida passenger trains since prior to Amtrak. There have been studies, but so far no one willing to do anything other than call for a study. In times past, there were multiple trains on multiple routes.

The last train standing was the final remnant of the Dixie Flyer, which ran overnight between Atlanta Union Station and Jacksonville. Nine hours each way. Don't know whether this train made it to A-day or not, but it did make it into the late 60's, at least. For many years this had been a Chicago to Florida train, but was post WW2 a secondary run. The portion north of Atlanta dissapeared in 1965 or thereabouts. The track is still there and is the CSX main line. Runs Atlanta - Manchester - Cordele - Waycross - Jacksonville.

Southern had trains on two routes. Up until the mid 1960's there was the Kansas City - Florida Special that ran KC to Jacksonville. It ran overnight Atlanta - Macon - Jesup - Jacksonville. The Jesup - Jacksonville segment was killed off first, which with loss of any through passenger shortly led to the discontinuation of the rest of the route. The track for this route is all still in place, but Macon - Jesup is a low speed light traffic unsignaled branch line. There have been proposals to restore service using this route south of Macon and on the ex CofG line north of Macon due to lack of problems with freight interference, but the work needed to run a reasonably fast schedule would be costly.

On their other route, Atlanta - Macon - Cordele - Valdosta - through the swamps direct to Jacksonville they had a day train and a nigth train, both running from Cincinatti with through cars from points north. They were the Royal Palm overnight and the Ponce de Leon daytime Chatanooga to Jacksonville. The track for this route is all still in place and still main line. The Ponce de Leon was kille off first with the Royal Palm going a couple of years thereafter, both gone before 1968.

Central of Georgia - Atlantic Coast Line, Atlanta -Griffin - Macon - Albany - Waycross - Jacksonville. This route also had a day train and a night train up until sometime in the early to mid 1960's, at one point carrying through cars from northern points that came in on the L&N from Cincinatti. Part of the Albany to Waycross line has been abandoned. Points north of Albany are lightly traveled, probably need work for any decent speed. There was also the Southland, overnight Atlanta to Tampa and St Petersburg up until the late 1950's. It ran almost due south out of Albany through Thomasville and on down the western part of the Florida Peninsula partly on a line known as the Perry Cutoff. Much of the route south of Albany has been abandoned. This train was through out of Chicago via Cincinatti.

 

[wayman]

There has been no Atlanta to Florida passenger trains since prior to Amtrak. There have been studies, but so far no one willing to do anything other than call for a study. In times past, there were multiple trains on multiple routes.

Have the studies actually been carried out? What were the reports? Is there a reason (as in, did any study conclude with evidence) to think ATL-JAX would be a dud?

 

[Rail Freak]

There has been no Atlanta to Florida passenger trains since prior to Amtrak. There have been studies, but so far no one willing to do anything other than call for a study. In times past, there were multiple trains on multiple routes.
The last train standing was the final remnant of the Dixie Flyer, which ran overnight between Atlanta Union Station and Jacksonville. Nine hours each way. Don't know whether this train made it to A-day or not, but it did make it into the late 60's, at least. For many years this had been a Chicago to Florida train, but was post WW2 a secondary run. The portion north of Atlanta dissapeared in 1965 or thereabouts. The track is still there and is the CSX main line. Runs Atlanta - Manchester - Cordele - Waycross - Jacksonville.

Southern had trains on two routes. Up until the mid 1960's there was the Kansas City - Florida Special that ran KC to Jacksonville. It ran overnight Atlanta - Macon - Jesup - Jacksonville. The Jesup - Jacksonville segment was killed off first, which with loss of any through passenger shortly led to the discontinuation of the rest of the route. The track for this route is all still in place, but Macon - Jesup is a low speed light traffic unsignaled branch line. There have been proposals to restore service using this route south of Macon and on the ex CofG line north of Macon due to lack of problems with freight interference, but the work needed to run a reasonably fast schedule would be costly.

On their other route, Atlanta - Macon - Cordele - Valdosta - through the swamps direct to Jacksonville they had a day train and a nigth train, both running from Cincinatti with through cars from points north. They were the Royal Palm overnight and the Ponce de Leon daytime Chatanooga to Jacksonville. The track for this route is all still in place and still main line. The Ponce de Leon was kille off first with the Royal Palm going a couple of years thereafter, both gone before 1968.

Central of Georgia - Atlantic Coast Line, Atlanta -Griffin - Macon - Albany - Waycross - Jacksonville. This route also had a day train and a night train up until sometime in the early to mid 1960's, at one point carrying through cars from northern points that came in on the L&N from Cincinatti. Part of the Albany to Waycross line has been abandoned. Points north of Albany are lightly traveled, probably need work for any decent speed. There was also the Southland, overnight Atlanta to Tampa and St Petersburg up until the late 1950's. It ran almost due south out of Albany through Thomasville and on down the western part of the Florida Peninsula partly on a line known as the Perry Cutoff. Much of the route south of Albany has been abandoned. This train was through out of Chicago via Cincinatti.

Back in the 70's I had a Hot Air Balloon Business in Chattanooga. I used to think the town was ugly from the air because of the rails in downtown! (Little did I know ) Does Chattanooga get much rail traffic these days?

 

[Guest_Amtrak OBS Employee_*]

Does Chattanooga get much rail traffic these days?

Heck yeah! Does it ever.... I believe both CSX and NS serve Chattanooga today, and both have heavily traveled trackage between there and ATL.

OBS gone freight...

 

[AlanB]

Does Chattanooga get much rail traffic these days?

Heck yeah! Does it ever.... I believe both CSX and NS serve Chattanooga today, and both have heavily traveled trackage between there and ATL.

OBS gone freight...

Sadly though the beautiful downtown station no longer sees any passenger trains though. Up until a few years ago a local tourist RR Tennessee Valley Railroad Museum used to run a train or two downtown, but not anymore. Can't recall if it was NS or CSX, but one of them decided that it was too much trouble to cross the service over the mains.

However, there is a Holiday Inn at the station that in addition to more traditional rooms, also has rooms that one can book that are located in old railcars on real tracks on the platforms of the old station. It's kind of odd to see a door with an electronic keycard lock on an old 10-6 sleeper. :blink:

 

[wayman]

However, there is a Holiday Inn at the station that in addition to more traditional rooms, also has rooms that one can book that are located in old railcars on real tracks on the platforms of the old station. It's kind of odd to see a door with an electronic keycard lock on an old 10-6 sleeper. :blink:

You can pay money... to stay in a roomette... that doesn't move? :blink:

But seriously, how much have the interiors been changed?

Conceptually, this sounds sort of like the camping coaches in Britain.

 

[George Harris]

There has been no Atlanta to Florida passenger trains since prior to Amtrak. There have been studies, but so far no one willing to do anything other than call for a study. In times past, there were multiple trains on multiple routes.

Have the studies actually been carried out? What were the reports? Is there a reason (as in, did any study conclude with evidence) to think ATL-JAX would be a dud?

Haven't looked at the site in a couple years, but it is www.garail.com. The last thing that sounded even like a possibility was some commuter sservice into Atlanta, on the old CofG line toward Macon as far as Lovejoy. The rest seems to be in the fantasy category, and that may be also.

 

[Joel N. Weber II]

You can pay money... to stay in a roomette... that doesn't move? :blink:

That sounds like an excellent idea. The night after the first night I slept in a Viewliner Roomette, I was rather annoyed that the hotel room I was sleeping in wasn't a Viewliner Roomette. Even though the hotel room did include a shower as a part of the room.

And of course, if you have infinite money to throw at the sleeper-on-the-Twilight-Shoreliner problem, you should be able to charter a private car, and park it at the train station at your destination, and use that as your hotel. It's probably even pretty cost effective for a party that needs several rooms when compared to the cost of shipping the car to somewhere with cheaper parking and then getting normal hotel rooms, if you were going to pay for the car for the moving parts of the trip anyway.

 

[AlanB]

However, there is a Holiday Inn at the station that in addition to more traditional rooms, also has rooms that one can book that are located in old railcars on real tracks on the platforms of the old station. It's kind of odd to see a door with an electronic keycard lock on an old 10-6 sleeper. :blink:

You can pay money... to stay in a roomette... that doesn't move? :blink:

But seriously, how much have the interiors been changed?

Conceptually, this sounds sort of like the camping coaches in Britain.

From what I could see, almost everything had been changed. There were only two hotels room per car, they had a big Queen (maybe King) bed in the room, and I'm sure a toilet and shower. But the walls were still original, as were the stairs up into the car, windows were original and I think even some of the light fixtures were original.

 

[Bill Haithcoat]

Just some thoughts from this native Chattanoogan.

The two very best trains ever from Altanta to Florida were the Dixie Flagler(Chicago, Evansville, Nashville,Chattanooga,Atlanta, Jacksonville,Miami) re-named the Dixieland in Dec. 1954. It was discontinued Nov. 1957. That left the old Dxiie Flyer, described several posts ago by George Harris.

The other top notch train was the winter version of the Royal Palm, called the New Royal Palm. It ran Detroit (and Cleveland, Buffao, Chicago through cars) to Cincinnati, Lexington, Chattanooga,Atlanta, Macon, Jack, Miami.

There were other trains, as aptly decribed by George Harris--I am just pointing out my "personal best".

Chattanooga does still indeed have much, much long distance freight on several main lines. Today's NS was the former Southern RR. Today's CSX was the former Louisville and Nashville. Before that, in 1957, it had been the Nashville, Chattanooga and St. Louis RR.

The station still standing in Chattanooga, now known as the Chattanooga Choo Choo, was the former Terminal Station of the Southern Railroad. Trains went to Knoxville, Washington, NYC, Miami, Birmingham, New Orleans, Detorit,Memphis.etc,etc. There was another station. the Union Station, now destroyed. Trains there went priimarily to CHicago , Nashville, Evansville and St. Louis or to Atlanta and Florida points. Those were the L&N trains, (originally NC&StL).

There is a nice model train display upstairs at the Choo Choo Hotel which models both stations which used to exist in Chattanooga. Some of the equipment is accurate but some is not, inasmuch as it shows some Amtrak superliners. Amtrak never served Chattanooga at all.

As Alan pointed out the railroad cars are sold as unit space of one half a railcar. In no way corresponding to what we would call roomettes and bedrooms today. The ancestry of the cars is widespread and various. Some were lightweight, some were heavyweight. They were not all sleepers, indeed some were New York Central coaches, but extensively rebult It is not that far-fetched to have Nw York Central equipment in CHA since the Royal Palm, New Royal Palm and Ponce de Leon interacted with NYC above Cincinnati to such places as Detroit, Cleveland, etc.

I doubt that any of the cars at the Choo Choo were 10-6 sleepers. 10-6 came to be well known today since that is mostly what Amtrak inherited. But there were many other designs as well. So far as I recall, all 10-6's were lightweight streamlined cars; no heavyweight.

Speaking of Chattanooga having two downtown stations, let it be said that Atlatna had two downtown stations at one time as well. About eight railroads served those two stations.

The original question was just about Atlanta to Florida travel. That is a big enough deal. But Chicago to Florida was an even bigger, a separate matter by itself. As there were trains which did not go through either Atlanta or Chattanooga.

Oh yes, the train Amtrak inherited, the South Wind, went Chicago,Indy, Louisville, Nashville, Birmingham,Montgomery Jacksonville and Miami. Not Atlanta or Chattanooga. Shortly after acquiring the South Wind, Amtrak re-named it the Floridian andit was discontinued in 1979. While some of its route changed around, nothing changed at the southern end, such as to make it go through Atlanta.

 

[guest]

So are there any plans to establish Atlanta to Florida service?

Is there a campaign for it?

 

[George Harris]

So are there any plans to establish Atlanta to Florida service?Is there a campaign for it?

To establish this service would require some serious money.

Through Amtrak? Don't make me laugh they have not bothered to put back on a train (Sunset Limited - East) they could have restored over two years ago.

Through the states of Georgia and Florida? Spend money on passenger rail? Not a chance. If their was a chance, we would have commuter trains into Atlanta already.

Maybe make another study or two? Yeah, why not? Studies are cheap and give some cash to a few friends.

 

[Crescent Mark]

...reminds me of the "toy" Chattanooga Choo Choo I got as a kid. Wow......

"Central of Georgia - Atlantic Coast Line, Atlanta -Griffin - Macon - Albany - Waycross - Jacksonville"

Oh man, that'd be such a great route. I'd love for someday there to be a Chicago -> Indy -> Chattanooga -> ATL -> Macon -> Albany -> JAX line. Unfortunately, funding from GA wouldn't come unless we get a decent Governor. Sonny Perdue made sure we knew that he supported commuter rail before he ran, and what did he do when he got into office? Of course - nothing. Maybe we can get Obama in there for the next Presidential term and maybe we can get a decent Governor in Georgia that'll support some commuter rail.

Atlanta to Lovejoy has been in the works since, I believe, 1999 or even before that. I've grown up my whole life listening to the bickering about that. I live in Griffin....we had a great station but they just turned it into a Welcome Center. It'd be great to see Amtrak someday go through here daily. Actually, we have quite a big NS freight yard right right downtown past the station, so it's cool to go out and see them sometimes. Anyway, the talks died when Sonny got in there. Roy Barnes, the former Governor, started the talks and they were going.....alright, but then they died out. Just recently, they talked of Atlanta to Macon. Sonny actually got right behind that and supported it THIS YEAR when it was brought back up. Hopefully something good becomes of it, because residents in my town would love it.

See this page:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgia_Rail_Passenger_Program

It needs to be updated, because talks just got started back and I think they might have a chance this time. NS is all set from what I've heard, and cities along the proposed ATL -> Macon line are interested, especially Lovejoy. However, someone can bail out at the last minute like Clayton did last time, and we'd be back at square one.

They want to build a new station in Atlanta, which is REALLY needed. How cool would it be to have a big new station in Five Points that houses:

-MARTA HQ, where the East-West, the North-South, and all other lines connect

-the stop for the Amtrak Crescent when it comes through

-the commuter rail line from Atlanta -> Macon, with future plans for Atlanta -> Savannah and other lines, maybe Atlanta -> Chicago or Atlanta -> JAX

/nerd. I hope they get something done.....

 

[Amtrak OBS Gone Freight]

Atlanta to Lovejoy has been in the works since, I believe, 1999 or even before that. I've grown up my whole life listening to the bickering about that. I live in Griffin....

Wow... It isn't often to catch a fellow "Griffin-er!" I grew up the first ten years of my life in NW Spalding County over near the river and the Fayette County line before moving down to Central FL. I still have family up that way ( one unlce who actually still lives on the same property), so I get up there on occasion. I was up that way recently for a class in Atlanta for CSX, and while in Griffin over the weekend I noticed that Atlanta is encroaching on Griffin BIG TIME nowdays! Anyway, I have dreamed about some kind of train service on that line through there for a long time! It sure would be nice to not have to drive when going to see any family. And having service there would just about eliminate all driving for me when it pertains to traveling to see kin. I can already ride the train to Greensboro, Columbia, and Charlotte, so if we could have service to Griffin, that would close the link for me! I guess I can keep dreaming!! Anyway, if I remember to do so I'll look you up via a PM on here the next time I head up Griffin way (see if you might be interested in lunch and maybe talk trains).

OBS gone freight...

 

[Crescent Mark]

Atlanta to Lovejoy has been in the works since, I believe, 1999 or even before that. I've grown up my whole life listening to the bickering about that. I live in Griffin....

Wow... It isn't often to catch a fellow "Griffin-er!" I grew up the first ten years of my life in NW Spalding County over near the river and the Fayette County line before moving down to Central FL. I still have family up that way ( one unlce who actually still lives on the same property), so I get up there on occasion. I was up that way recently for a class in Atlanta for CSX, and while in Griffin over the weekend I noticed that Atlanta is encroaching on Griffin BIG TIME nowdays! Anyway, I have dreamed about some kind of train service on that line through there for a long time! It sure would be nice to not have to drive when going to see any family. And having service there would just about eliminate all driving for me when it pertains to traveling to see kin. I can already ride the train to Greensboro, Columbia, and Charlotte, so if we could have service to Griffin, that would close the link for me! I guess I can keep dreaming!! Anyway, if I remember to do so I'll look you up via a PM on here the next time I head up Griffin way (see if you might be interested in lunch and maybe talk trains).

OBS gone freight...

Wow that's awesome! Yeah I'd love to have lunch sometime, that'd be great. Just let me know. Griffin keeps growing....we add a little more each year, but Atlanta is getting HUGE. I hope the Atlanta to Macon line actually gets its butt in gear sometime in the next year or so. It wouldn't take that much to get it going...

Funny enough, next week I'm headed to Raleigh to stay with family, but going up, my layover from the Crescent to the Carolinian is in Charlotte, and coming back it's in Greensboro. Small world!

 

[Tony]

However, there is a Holiday Inn at the station that in addition to more traditional rooms, also has rooms that one can book that are located in old railcars on real tracks on the platforms of the old station. It's kind of odd to see a door with an electronic keycard lock on an old 10-6 sleeper. :blink:

If anyone is interested, here is a link to their Victorian Train Cars.

 

[jackal]

If anyone is interested, here is a link to their Victorian Train Cars.

The only thing missing from your night in a Victorian Train Car is the "clickety-clack" of the rails!

They should do like the California state railroad museum in Sacramento does with their sleeper on display and mount it on hydraulics with speakers and moving lights to give you the sense that you're screaming along at 100mph. It's scarily realistic--I stood in that sleeper for a good 15 minutes just pretending I was actually riding a train. Almost as good as actually booking a real train trip! :lol:

 

[landnrailroader]

There has been no Atlanta to Florida passenger trains since prior to Amtrak. There have been studies, but so far no one willing to do anything other than call for a study. In times past, there were multiple trains on multiple routes.

Have the studies actually been carried out? What were the reports? Is there a reason (as in, did any study conclude with evidence) to think ATL-JAX would be a dud?

Haven't looked at the site in a couple years, but it is www.garail.com. The last thing that sounded even like a possibility was some commuter sservice into Atlanta, on the old CofG line toward Macon as far as Lovejoy. The rest seems to be in the fantasy category, and that may be also.

I'm retired from CSX, now for 7 years, and at least 10 years prior to my retirement, I believe it was around 1990 or

so, a study was made of reinstating a Chicago-Nashville-Atlanta-Jacksonville route, this being the general route. At that

time NS cited many reasons why they could not (or would not) handle such a train south of Chattanooga, and this pretty

much shut the study down as NS needed to be involved so that Macon would be included in the route. There was never a formal report, that I know of, released. Since then, CSX has indicated that they would be amenable to a Chicago to

Nashville train, depending on the route - any route except the direct Chicago-Evansville-Nashville route, but would not discuss anything south of Nashville. However, money talks and gas was not $4 a gallon in 1990.

One possibility that I have looked at (personally, informally) would be to make the Cardinal daily, and split off a

section at Cincinnati to run to Louiisville & Nashville. Cincinnati-Nashville by that route is sort of a secondary line

while the direct route mentioned above is heavy with Intermodal and much has been spent the past two years to

improve it's capacity, but nowhere near enough to handle passenger.

J. H. Sullivan

 

[Crescent ATN & TCL]

Does Chattanooga get much rail traffic these days?

Heck yeah! Does it ever.... I believe both CSX and NS serve Chattanooga today, and both have heavily traveled trackage between there and ATL.

OBS gone freight...

Sadly though the beautiful downtown station no longer sees any passenger trains though. Up until a few years ago a local tourist RR Tennessee Valley Railroad Museum used to run a train or two downtown, but not anymore. Can't recall if it was NS or CSX, but one of them decided that it was too much trouble to cross the service over the mains.

However, there is a Holiday Inn at the station that in addition to more traditional rooms, also has rooms that one can book that are located in old railcars on real tracks on the platforms of the old station. It's kind of odd to see a door with an electronic keycard lock on an old 10-6 sleeper. :blink:

TVRM discontinued Downtown Arrow service into the Chattanooga Choo-Choo as it is now called because it had to enter NS/CSX joint trackage to get to the station. When the traffic started picking up about 10 years ago it took too long to traverse that short section so they dropped that train. They still however travel from Chattanooga to Chickamauga and Summerville, GA along the same route but by pass the Choo-Choo stop. I would recomment the Steam-All-The-Way trips in June and the Autumn Leaf Specials in October to anyone. They are probably the closest you can get to a Mainline Steam trip in the Southeast. They are both 100mi 7hr roundtrips pulled by steam, usually with a diesel back up, on the Chattooga and Chickamauga Railroad.

 

[Rail Freak]

Does Chattanooga get much rail traffic these days?

Heck yeah! Does it ever.... I believe both CSX and NS serve Chattanooga today, and both have heavily traveled trackage between there and ATL.

OBS gone freight...

Sadly though the beautiful downtown station no longer sees any passenger trains though. Up until a few years ago a local tourist RR Tennessee Valley Railroad Museum used to run a train or two downtown, but not anymore. Can't recall if it was NS or CSX, but one of them decided that it was too much trouble to cross the service over the mains.

However, there is a Holiday Inn at the station that in addition to more traditional rooms, also has rooms that one can book that are located in old railcars on real tracks on the platforms of the old station. It's kind of odd to see a door with an electronic keycard lock on an old 10-6 sleeper. :blink:

TVRM discontinued Downtown Arrow service into the Chattanooga Choo-Choo as it is now called because it had to enter NS/CSX joint trackage to get to the station. When the traffic started picking up about 10 years ago it took too long to traverse that short section so they dropped that train. They still however travel from Chattanooga to Chickamauga and Summerville, GA along the same route but by pass the Choo-Choo stop. I would recomment the Steam-All-The-Way trips in June and the Autumn Leaf Specials in October to anyone. They are probably the closest you can get to a Mainline Steam trip in the Southeast. They are both 100mi 7hr roundtrips pulled by steam, usually with a diesel back up, on the Chattooga and Chickamauga Railroad.

.Where would I go to take these routes??? Chattanooga?

 

[Crescent Mark]

Does Chattanooga get much rail traffic these days?

Heck yeah! Does it ever.... I believe both CSX and NS serve Chattanooga today, and both have heavily traveled trackage between there and ATL.

OBS gone freight...

Sadly though the beautiful downtown station no longer sees any passenger trains though. Up until a few years ago a local tourist RR Tennessee Valley Railroad Museum used to run a train or two downtown, but not anymore. Can't recall if it was NS or CSX, but one of them decided that it was too much trouble to cross the service over the mains.

However, there is a Holiday Inn at the station that in addition to more traditional rooms, also has rooms that one can book that are located in old railcars on real tracks on the platforms of the old station. It's kind of odd to see a door with an electronic keycard lock on an old 10-6 sleeper. :blink:

TVRM discontinued Downtown Arrow service into the Chattanooga Choo-Choo as it is now called because it had to enter NS/CSX joint trackage to get to the station. When the traffic started picking up about 10 years ago it took too long to traverse that short section so they dropped that train. They still however travel from Chattanooga to Chickamauga and Summerville, GA along the same route but by pass the Choo-Choo stop. I would recomment the Steam-All-The-Way trips in June and the Autumn Leaf Specials in October to anyone. They are probably the closest you can get to a Mainline Steam trip in the Southeast. They are both 100mi 7hr roundtrips pulled by steam, usually with a diesel back up, on the Chattooga and Chickamauga Railroad.

.Where would I go to take these routes??? Chattanooga?

bump!! I would also love to know where/how to take these routes....that'd be really cool.

The only steam trip I've ever taken was when I went to the Smoky Mountains a few years back. Actually, I went once and rode the Great Smoky Mountain Railroad stream train, and I liked it so much, I came back and rode it a 2nd time.

I wonder what kind of NS reaction we'd get if they looked into the Chicago -> Jacksonville (through ATL and Chattanooga) route again in present day.

 

[George Harris]

I wonder what kind of NS reaction we'd get if they looked into the Chicago -> Jacksonville (through ATL and Chattanooga) route again in present day.

Either: 1. How many different ways do we have to say NO before you get the message?

Or: 2. You can pay for a second track full length, give us an iron clad "hold harmless clause" and then we will think about it.

 

[VentureForth]

I'm just holding my breath for a Savannah to Atlanta connection. It'd be nice to get to parts on the Crescent without having to go to DC. But there just isn't Class I infrastructure between SAV and ATL.