Atlantic Coast (Silver/Palmetto/Carolinian) Service discussion 2024 H2

[pennyk]

From July 7, 2024 forward, please post comments discussing Atlantic Coast Service here. For previous posts regarding Atlantic Coast Service, please refer to this thread, which is currently locked:

https://www.amtraktrains.com/thread...ian-service-discussion-q4-2023-2024-h1.86123/

 

[Steve4031]

I just booked 92 from Miami to Washington DC in August. Iirc the consist is coaches, lounge, diner 9210,9211, and 9212 if there’s a third sleeper followed by a baggage car. Is this correct? Thank you.

 

[pennyk]

I just booked 92 from Miami to Washington DC in August. Iirc the consist is coaches, lounge, diner 9210,9211, and 9212 if there’s a third sleeper followed by a baggage car. Is this correct? Thank you.

yes

 

[PaTrainFan]

When I watch the Ashland livestream, I often wonder, how do passengers know which platform to wait on, given that there is no set track on which northbound and southbound trains operate? Are there PIDS displays that inform them? Given that the station is unstaffed and I hear no announcements, I wonder if anyone has missed a train because they were caught off-guard with a train arriving on the opposite track they were expecting.

 

[Palmland]

When the platform was renovated a couple years ago they were going to install digital signs to indicate which track. I was there last winter and that hadn’t happened.

Usually passengers peer down the tracks to see which one the train is on then run across the tracks if necessary to get to the correct side. In the mornings there is often a crossing watchman with a radio to help. But not a safe situation.

 

[JamesWhitcombRiley]

Ashland would only agree to three things: no widening, underpass, overpass or bypass; an ADA platform with a better ped crossing in the tracks (many other ped crossings around town are just cut up railroad ties); and passenger information screens (not done yet, apparently). The resistance to anything further was by "town, gown and hound," meaning the loudest voices from town residents and businesses, from the college along the tracks, and from semi-rural areas in the way of a bypass.

When the informal sentinels who step out onto the tracks to look at the approaching train are not present, and someone is waiting on the wrong platform, the train will stop and wait for them to walk around. The crossing guard in the morning and afternoon is for school buses only. The station house is actually a small visitors center and is not open when most trains arrive.

The station is close enough to RVR Staples Mill, that an appropriate "punishment" in the future would be replace it with a station at Doswell, for the planned east-west route!

 

[Palmland]

The resistance to anything further was by "town, gown and hound,

Good for Ashland for not succumbing to those who think they know what’s best for them. The initial plans (a third track with overpass or trench for the tracks) would have destroyed what makes it a unique and special place. And the station is exactly where it belongs.

However, I would agree a bypass using Ashcake road would have made sense as traffic does back up on England street when a train is stopped at the station or there’s a long freight.

Disclaimer: RMC alumnus

 

[thefirewarde]

Good for Ashland for not succumbing to those who think they know what’s best for them.

EMPHATIC disagreement here. Ashland is going to be a bottleneck for decades, the biggest freight/passenger conflict point north of Raleigh. They fought hard to keep HAZMAT running through their downtown for character, as well as maintaining numerous at-grade and pedestrian crossings and a major slow zone.

 

[jis]

EMPHATIC disagreement here. Ashland is going to be a bottleneck for decades, the biggest freight/passenger conflict point north of Raleigh. They fought hard to keep HAZMAT running through their downtown for character, as well as maintaining numerous at-grade and pedestrian crossings and a major slow zone.

Could you provide a specific citation supporting your claims about what Ashland wanted with HAZMAT? Thank you for you indulgence.

 

[MARC Rider]

EMPHATIC disagreement here. Ashland is going to be a bottleneck for decades, the biggest freight/passenger conflict point north of Raleigh. They fought hard to keep HAZMAT running through their downtown for character, as well as maintaining numerous at-grade and pedestrian crossings and a major slow zone.

What town populated by sane people would fight hard to keep HAZMAT running through their downtown? I mean, we have that in Baltimore, but at least the tracks are in a tunnel, albeit a tunnel built in 1890. I'm not sure why the locals in Ashland were so opposed to a bypass, and leaving the original tracks through downtown in place for commuter and regional passenger service.

 

[thefirewarde]

Specifically, Ashland refused any bypass option to maintain trains through their downtown on the existing two track main. One of the bypass options considered would have been largely unsuitable for passenger traffic and single track, but ideal for routing hazmat freight around town and maintaining planned triple track Richmond to DC corridor. This is from environmental and planning documents.

 

[Palmland]

Specifically, Ashland refused any bypass option to maintain trains through their downtown on the existing two track main. One of the bypass options considered would have been largely unsuitable for passenger traffic and single track, but ideal for routing hazmat freight around town and maintaining planned triple track Richmond to DC corridor. This is from environmental and planning documents.

No, what Ashland objected to was the proposal to build a third track through the middle of town that would have had a very negative economic and social impact. And yes it would have destroyed a town that prides itself on small town charm which some still believe is worthy of preserving (and is the subject of a couple minute commentary by the LSA on the AutoTrain as it passes through town). Yes, Hanover County objected to the bypass option which I woulld have been ok with but I could not believe it was seriously considered. The cost would have been exorbitant as the town and housing spreads a couple miles in all directions so the bypass would have been lengthy. I was surprised that another option to route freight onto the former C&O at Dosweell and on into Richmond was not pursued as in the past it saw considerable coal traffic and still has local business. In Richmond it has a head on connection to CSX for either Acca yard, Newport News, or staight on the old SAL (and someday maybe the SEHSR) and a connection with the currnet mainline.

However, apparently the state feels your concern is unwarranted:

"In a presentation to the state’s Commonwealth Transportation Board on November 9th, DRPT reported that with the chosen 3-2-3 option, the tracks could still handle the level of rail traffic expected in 2045. They say delays between DC and Richmond would most likely occur outside of the Ashland area and not be related to the 3-2-3 decision."

 

[jis]

Just to provide some context for the Ashland debate, here is an useful article with some background info and adiagram which shows the various route alternatives considered...

https://richmondmagazine.com/news/news/talking-high-speed-rail/

 

[MARC Rider]

. And yes it would have destroyed a town that prides itself on small town charm which some still believe is worthy of preserving

Ah yes, the small-town charm of hosting the main north-south freight railway route on the east coast and having 750+ meter long PSR double-stacks, coal trains, and Hazmat rolling right through your downtown.

It's bad enough in Baltimore, they're ready to spend zillions on a new outer harbor road bridge to handle hazmat trucks so they don't have to drive through our western suburbs, but the dangerous rail freight continues to roll right under downtown and through other residential neighborhoods (google "Baltimore Belt Line") with no prospect of building a freight rail bypass under or over the harbor to keep the freight trains where they'll do the most good and least harm.

 

[Palmland]

Ah yes, the small-town charm of hosting the main north-south freight railway route on the east coast and having 750+ meter long PSR double-stacks, coal trains, and Hazmat rolling right through your downtown.

Obviously the residents of Ashland don’t live in fear of what might happen but welcome the railroad.

It’s part of the town fabric and has been since the RF&P developed it into a residential community in the 1850’s and, after the civil war, donated land for the college. Early in the 20th century, an ‘electric railway’ operated from Richmond that paralleled the RF&P. It was used by residents and those coming to Ashland to enjoy the resort developed by the RF&P on 200 acres north of town. Later the RF&P operated Santa Claus specials for the residents. Unlike most towns, the most valuable properties are the Victorian houses that line the tracks. The big event of the year is Ashland Train Day that ‘celebrates Ashland’s love of trains’. Come check it out.

But, I’m sure Ashland appreciates the concern for their well being from those that don’t live there.

 

[thefirewarde]

I'm sure citizens from Florida to Boston appreciate the slow zone for Ashland's train festival every day, and will continue to appreciate the bottleneck as service expands on the Southeast Corridor.

 

[jis]

Ah yes, the small-town charm of hosting the main north-south freight railway route on the east coast and having 750+ meter long PSR double-stacks, coal trains, and Hazmat rolling right through your downtown.

It's bad enough in Baltimore, they're ready to spend zillions on a new outer harbor road bridge to handle hazmat trucks so they don't have to drive through our western suburbs, but the dangerous rail freight continues to roll right under downtown and through other residential neighborhoods (google "Baltimore Belt Line") with no prospect of building a freight rail bypass under or over the harbor to keep the freight trains where they'll do the most good and least harm.

DC DOT at one time got concerned about Hazmat through DC and explored three alternatives for moving it away, all involving crossing the Potomac downstream of DC through a tunnel and then using the Pope Creek branch to get back to the CSX line to Baltimore. The cost inevitably came in at $5 Billion to $7 Billion and there were no takers for funding it. So they went instead to expand the Virginia Ave Tunnel for double track double stack operation together with doubling capacity on the Long Bridge and left it at that.

Incidentally Philadelphia has the same problem.

As it turns out some of the big cities (Savannah, Jacksonville, Orlando, Tampa, Miami) in the south on the Atlantic Coast Route managed to not have the problem by really not being located on the freight main line but off to the side as things got rerouted and flow patterns changed with some routes taken up by passenger service etc. But the fact remains that in general trying to move Hazmat away from population centers is going to cost big and someone has to foot the bill.

 

[Palmland]

After an appointment in Sanford I stopped at the SunRail station there. In addition to a couple Sunrail trains, a CSX local showed up to pick up several cars in their almost vacant yard. Not shown, but at the other end was another CSX local that I suspect is the one that works north to Deland and probably exchanges cars with the one you see here. I assume it is returning to Orlando yard as it passes the station.

There are rumors that Auto Train wants to relocate in order to expand their very constrained current terminal. This looks like a good spot.

As a bonus, the southbound Silver Star came through. In the shot of rear of the train as it heads to Orlando you can see a bridge. Just beyond that is the Auto Train terminal. It had arrived shortly before. It doesn’t show very well in the photo but its cars are visible in the distance.

 

[Literalman]

Hazmat covers a lot. The big concern is toxic inhalation hazards. There are no short rail detours around Washington, DC, towns on the long detours don't want toxic inhalation hazards passing through, putting such hazmat on the highways might be even more risky, and personally I'm not sure a tunnel for hazmat is such a good idea at any price.

 

[pennyk]

Moderator Note: to continue the discussion about the rumored combined Silver Star and Capitol Limited, please post your comments here:
https://www.amtraktrains.com/thread...om-mia-to-chi-rumor.87740/page-2#post-1045961

 

[west point]

Will Debby shut down the silver service line?

 

[Steve4031]

I’m monitoring this too. The main issue is strong winds and flooding. In the past CSX has removed crossing gates and closed routes for hurricanes. I don’t know when this decision would be made in the case of Debby.

 

[alanh]

Looks like it, they've announced cancellations for 8/6.

 

[chadamfleetrailfan]

As an FYI, northbound #90 (8/13) was delayed approximately an hour at Selma due to track work at the diamond just south of the station. P090 did not pull into the station until 2P EST. Train was expected at Selma at 1:09 and did not pull into station until 2P.


(Train waiting to approach platform)


(Arriving at platform at 2P)

 

[jis]

I came from Orlando to New York by the Star arriving yesterday. The train did fine as far as OTP goes upto RVR. Then lost some 20 mins into WAS and a further 40 mins on the NEC to arrive in NYP a shade over an hour late.

Incidentally it had a P42 leading and an ALC42 trailing.

The 91 we met at WAS had an ALC42 leading and a P42 trailing.

The 97 we met near Newark DE had a deadhead Viewliner bringing up the marker in the rear.