Atlantic Coast (Silver/Palmetto/Carolinian) Service discussion 2024 H2

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In an earlier thread on the Atlantic Coast discussion, we talked about the seasonal Florida Special and some of it's feature cars. In sorting through old photos I found this one from March 1966 when I was in college. The B&O dome sleeper has just been added to the Miami bound Florida Special in Broad St. station, Richmond. It looks very inviting on this snowy day.

At least one of these cars lived on on the Floridian, then private car service, and now as part of the NS office car fleet.

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I was on 97(30) Silver Meteor running over five and a half hour late. First it left New York one and a half hour late because of “late arrival of equipment” as they said. And then we hung out in Washington DC for four or so hours while they figured out how to get a “mechanically sound” diesel locomotive or something like that.

Finally we left Washington DC about 4.5 hours late. We pretty much maintained that with some variations, ultimately getting to Jacksonville 5.5 hours late. I swear it was weird to wake up in the morning to find oneself at Fayetteville!

At Jacksonville we got stuck for a little over two hours as they had to do something called the "monthly inspection and certification" of one of the locomotives. Initially they said one hour, but in the usual Amtrak and airline fashion of doing things one hour kept getting stretched by fifteen minutes until it was past two hours when we moved, just after 98 arrived at Jacksonville. You don't see 97 and 98 at Jacksonville at the same time!

There was apparently some issue with a switch making it impossible for 98 to roll into the station directly. It went past the station and then backed into it.

Finally we got into Orlando at around 8:20pm a shade over 7 hours late. Apparently it got into Miami at 2:15am.

As for the Sleepers, 9710 was a Viewliner 1 and 9711 and 9712 were Viewliner IIs.

One saving grace was that the Diner still had enough food to serve Dinner on the second day, which it normally would not have to do.

Otherwise the trip was fine and comfortable, except that the crew could have done a better job of keeping us informed about what was going on.
 
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jis said:
Otherwise the trip was fine and comfortable, except that the crew could have done a better job of keeping us informed about what was going on.
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Do you happen to use a scanner? I used to when I was younger, and rode more frequently, but haven't in a long time. Perhaps I should on my next trip... 🤔
 
railiner said:
Do you happen to use a scanner? I used to when I was younger, and rode more frequently, but haven't in a long time. Perhaps I should on my next trip... 🤔
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No I don't. But I know enough people within Amtrak to get a much more comprehensive report indirectly from NOC if I wish. Usually though I am not pressed for time. I just sleep and listen to music through these incidents.
 
Palmland said:
In an earlier thread on the Atlantic Coast discussion, we talked about the seasonal Florida Special and some of it's feature cars. In sorting through old photos I found this one from March 1966 when I was in college. The B&O dome sleeper has just been added to the Miami bound Florida Special in Broad St. station, Richmond. It looks very inviting on this snowy day.

At least one of these cars lived on on the Floridian, then private car service, and now as part of the NS office car fleet.

View attachment 37623
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If memory serves me correctly, these cars were part of the original "Chessie" train order. When the train never appeared, the equipment was sold and seems to have gone all over the place. I made an Indianapolis-West Palm Beach trip shortly after Amtrak took over the almost dead "South Wind". I had a "Single Bedroom" in this car that was under the dome and great. However, the cars did not have the number of accommodations as, for example, the "North Coast Limited's" dome sleepers.
 
JWM said:
If memory serves me correctly, these cars were part of the original "Chessie" train order. When the train never appeared, the equipment was sold and seems to have gone all over the place. I made an Indianapolis-West Palm Beach trip shortly after Amtrak took over the almost dead "South Wind". I had a "Single Bedroom" in this car that was under the dome and great. However, the cars did not have the number of accommodations as, for example, the "North Coast Limited's" dome sleepers.
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I believe you are correct…the one pictured above, was one of the topmost trio shown here…

http://www.trainweb.org/web_lurker/CO/
 
Silver Star Comments:

My first train on my way back to Florida was CL which I posted positive comments a few days ago. Star was my Sunday train back to South Florida. It arrived in DC around 2:30 ish and I boarded shortly thereafter in a roomette in car 9110 a VI. It wasn't as nice as the refurbished bedroom on the CL but it was ok. The car type was my choice. Took an hour to swap engines and I thought it was a bad start time wise. Most everyone wanted to eat in their room and I wanted dining car so told the SCA I could make my room up if he was swamped. He said not to worry. Room was made up while at dinner and again when I was at breakfast in morning. Nice. Food was good both dinner and breakfast. Maybe 8 people in diner for dinner and less at 8am for breakfast which I don't understand. We made up time and actually arrived a few minutes early so that is two trains in a row. A new record. Nice employees on this train like the CL. Windows were clean on this train also.
 
Sauve850 said:
Maybe 8 people in diner for dinner and less at 8am for breakfast which I don't understand.
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I agree. Meals in the diner are one of the unique pleasures of an LD trip for us. Meeting new people and gazing at the landscape in the bright sunlit car at 80mph is always enjoyable and makes up for the sometimes mediocre food.

It’s certainly better than balancing food on the small table in the also small room. However, I can understand it for the mobility impaired, those in poor heath or just too tired to walk through a few cars.

If this is a trend, I hope it doesn’t grow as it could provide Amtrak an excuse to scale back dining car service. It certainly hasn’t been the case on AutoTrain where the diner is full on multiple seatings.
 
Palmland said:
I agree. Meals in the diner are one of the unique pleasures of an LD trip for us. Meeting new people and gazing at the landscape in the bright sunlit car at 80mph is always enjoyable and makes up for the sometimes mediocre food.

It’s certainly better than balancing food on the small table in the also small room. However, I can understand it for the mobility impaired, those in poor heath or just too tired to walk through a few cars.

If this is a trend, I hope it doesn’t grow as it could provide Amtrak an excuse to scale back dining car service. It certainly hasn’t been the case on AutoTrain where the diner is full on multiple seatings.
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Hmm, if fewer people in sleepers are eating in the dining car, perhaps that means that more people in coach can eat there. At $40 or $25 a pop. Cash source for Amtrak.
 
MARC Rider said:
Hmm, if fewer people in sleepers are eating in the dining car, perhaps that means that more people in coach can eat there. At $40 or $25 a pop. Cash source for Amtrak.
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If total employment costs for a SCA in a diner are about $30 / hour it would seem that 48 additional coach passengers eating in the diner in a 24 hour period would pay for the food and SCA. That is not counting the additional revenue those riders might supply for being able to eat in the diner or at least get diner food.
 
Palmland said:
I agree. Meals in the diner are one of the unique pleasures of an LD trip for us. Meeting new people and gazing at the landscape in the bright sunlit car at 80mph is always enjoyable and makes up for the sometimes mediocre food.

It’s certainly better than balancing food on the small table in the also small room. However, I can understand it for the mobility impaired, those in poor heath or just too tired to walk through a few cars.

If this is a trend, I hope it doesn’t grow as it could provide Amtrak an excuse to scale back dining car service. It certainly hasn’t been the case on AutoTrain where the diner is full on multiple seatings.
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I see that I'm not the only one noticing the drop in dining car usage. I don't know whether it started before, during, or after the pandemic or whether it's mostly traditional, flex, or both.
 
Yep, it's been $20/breakfast, $25/lunch and $45/dinner since traditional dining was reopened to coach passengers.

Food must be fabulous!
Actually breakfast menu is v. calory heavy; no options for fresh fruit or cinnamon toast or other light eats. Lunch is good, fair price. Dinner is okay but also heavy on carbs, some entrees are excellent, salads are out of the bag—like you’d buy at Winn-Dixie. And dressings are squeeze from package. My local Perkins wouldn’t do that to me.
 
OmahaRoad said:
Good info! Man, will the Carolinian need more than 6 cars in the future, though. Ridership is increasingly so much each year, and it often sells out as it is. I'd have to assume having 7 or 8 cars on the Carolinian is much closer in view than a desired, but not in official planning cards yet, 2nd Carolinian frequency.
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The additional Carolinians are in the planning phase, but they won't run on the current route south of Richmond. The plan is to operate three additional Charlotte Raleigh Richmond NEC trips via the S-line and four Raleigh to Richmond to NEC trips, plus local/extended Piedmont S-Line service (the through trains may not make all stops). The existing Carolinian will be kept on the current route to maintain Eastern NC service.

Of course even with a billion dollars in S-Line funding, they're only building north from Raleigh a ways. But with eight daily trips, six car consists would probably be fine for a decade - almost 3000 seats each way each day is a substantial upgrade.

Until that comes online, a six car train is going to be packed on the Carolinian service. Maybe they can change their allocations around, maybe they just run at a higher load factor and turn down peak period business. If Charlotte Gateway opens and they can accommodate an eight car Carolinian, in my opinion they ought to.
 
I ride the Carolinian from Charlotte to New York with such regularity, that from late spring through summer, a 10 car consist could be probably justified at times. I ride that train always in business class, and at times they could have probably sold out two business class cars if the equipment was available.
 
thefirewarde said:
. Maybe they can change their allocations around, maybe they just run at a higher load factor and turn down peak period business. If Charlotte Gateway opens and they can accommodate an eight car Carolinian, in my opinion they ought to.
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Looking at open railway map it appears that the siding storage track for the overnight Carolinian only has enough length for 6 cars and a loco. Someone who is familiar with the area can tell us if there is any impediment for adding about 180 feet of track to that siding going north. Better still maybe 260 feet? That would be a cost for NC DOT to add in any case
That being said it may be Amtrak will not or cannot offer another 2 - 4 cars for the train at this time.?
 
west point said:
Looking at open railway map it appears that the siding storage track for the overnight Carolinian only has enough length for 6 cars and a loco. Someone who is familiar with the area can tell us if there is any impediment for adding about 180 feet of track to that siding going north. Better still maybe 260 feet? That would be a cost for NC DOT to add in any case
That being said it may be Amtrak will not or cannot offer another 2 - 4 cars for the train at this time.?
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Going north you could add one car length by building a retaining wall and filling in to support the extension. After that you'll hit the station. The switch on the south end might be able to be relocated further south, but I doubt if anyone would want to pay for it. By the way, this siding is called the Office Track and its length is what limits the Carolinian to 1 engine, 4 coaches, 1 cafe, 1 business class and 1 baggage car. Within the last year or so, Amtrak did temporarily add another coach by dropping the baggage car.

jb
 
John Bobinyec said:
Going north you could add one car length by building a retaining wall and filling in to support the extension. After that you'll hit the station. The switch on the south end might be able to be relocated further south, but I doubt if anyone would want to pay for it. By the way, this siding is called the Office Track and its length is what limits the Carolinian to 1 engine, 4 coaches, 1 cafe, 1 business class and 1 baggage car. Within the last year or so, Amtrak did temporarily add another coach by dropping the baggage car.

jb
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JOHN: Thanks . Suspected that there were impediments to going north. Is the Office track switch controlled and protected by signals? Moving that switch could cost up to $2M or less depending. Is the new station being built just treading water with no indication when or IF it will ever be built?
BTW are there HEP connections on the Office track and where?
 
The Office Track switch connects to main track 2, which is signalized. I'm not sure what HEP connections there are. The tracks for the new Gateway station in Charlotte are built along with their approaches and platforms. The station building is now in the planning phase.

jb
 
No sense putting money into Office Track when Gateway platforms and track are already done and the NCDOT facilities are being planned and built.

Might be worth parking the Carolinian in Gateway Station as an interim measure, but I'm sure there are issues with access control or servicing in the way of that.
 
Looks like the Silver Meteor departure time on the NEC is getting moved up 45 minutes (NYC time is 3:15 —> 2:30) the same day that the Floridian service starts. The stop times after Washington on 97 appear to be the same, though.
 
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