Back to the drawing board for LaGuardia AirTrain

[jis]

The JFK AirTrain is actually a people mover, not a metro, so it is relatively light weight and has a very small footprint:
View attachment 25112

They could probably squeeze it into the median of GCP just like they did on the Van Wyck, relocating lanes in places.

That is exactly my point. And we have already heard from folks unfamiliar with modern elevated transitway.

 

[saxman]

More Subway extension talk. Maybe there is more support after all?

NYC subway extension to LaGuardia idea gains steam after Cuomo’s AirTrain nixed

 

[neroden]

Apparently the "community group" in Astoria which led the opposition in a previous decade is currently *endorsing* an Astoria line extension (can't remember where I read that or what the name of the group was) so I really think there is a much bigger chance of such an extension now.

 

[adamj023]

Amtrak has a station for Newark liberty airport on the Northeast Corridor. The hells gate line can also be found on the Bronx Queens expressway. It would allow for a direct train into Manhattan.

Don’t know what solution they will choose if any. Central Queens doesn’t benefit from the N extension or the hells gate line or a ferry solution.

 

[jis]

Here is a good comparison of the various proposals that are floating around today, and the original 1990 proposal is also included...

https://www.thetransportpolitic.com...rtrain-that-will-save-almost-no-one-any-time/

 

[John819]

Prior to the pandemic the LIRR and the subway were operating a more than 100% capacity in rush hours. Where would you put the LGA passengers? Building an additional access point to Manhattan would be far too costly.

 

[adamj023]

The Jackson Heights line is also a possibility in addition to the Hells gate line.

To build a Manhattan line, you would need to build a station on the Hells gate line as one example as the tracks are on upper level and have elevators, escalators and stairs. Easily doable if you acquire property nearby. Air train would connect over there with the air train connecting at that location. Not much different than the way the airtrain connection works at Jamaica station now to the LIRR For connections. There are several possible ways to engineer an appprorpriate air train connection to la guardia airport but they will cost a lot and take lots of time to build and still won’t benefit all of NYC as many places still won’t benefit from using the air train.

 

[John819]

Remember that to get from Queens to Manhattan by rail you have four tunnel tubes to NYP and soon two to NYG. I doubt these have any room at rush hour.

For the subway you have the Astoria line, the Flushing line, and the Queens Boulevard line, all at full capacity at their East River tunnels.

 

[adamj023]

There are loads of possibilities to build an air train for better connections than the previous connection at Willets point to LIRR and the 7 Subway line.

Most people come to La Guardia from Manhattan and also other boroughs of NYC and going to Willets point out east would benefit the least amount of people and also would have been prone to flooding and environmental issues. I believe one can integrate multiple different lines into a desirable solution that would benefit more people including subway and train lines that are nearby and also possible ferry service. We will see what happens. But as those plans require extensive construction, it will take many years and more studies to be done so it will likely be a long time before anything is done. This could turn out like the bridge over the Long Island sound to Connecticut project which has never materialized.

 

[Deni]

If we actually invested in infrastructure in this country they would build a new subway line from Flushing to LGA (and another section that stays under Astoria Blvd bypassing LGA) then into Manhattan under 96th St. Have one line join the 2nd Ave subway and another continue along 96th to the UWS and head south on a new Columbus/9th Ave subway. Fast connection to Manhattan for LGA users. Another option from Flushing, where the 7 Train can be almost full just from the origin station. More capacity in Manhattan with a new subway line. The 2nd Ave subway would actually go somewhere (but the Bronx extension still needs to be built too). Pipe dream I know, we'd rather spend our money on freeway interchanges.

 

[John819]

The New York City area is the natural habitat of the NIMBYs and the BANANAS (build absolutely nothing anywhere near anybody). By the time any new major construction could pass planning, environmental review, political issues, and obtain financing, it would be twenty years. The Second Avenue Subway was proposed in 1920 and opened (partially) in 2017.

 

[daybeers]

The New York City area is the natural habitat of the NIMBYs and the BANANAS (build absolutely nothing anywhere near anybody). By the time any new major construction could pass planning, environmental review, political issues, and obtain financing, it would be twenty years. The Second Avenue Subway was proposed in 1920 and opened (partially) in 2017.

Nope, those aren't New Yorkers, those are NIMBYs and the MTA. Look at who's doing the complaining and who drives cars vs. uses transit in the city and then get back to me.

 

[MARC Rider]

The New York City area is the natural habitat of the NIMBYs and the BANANAS (build absolutely nothing anywhere near anybody).

That's why the New York City area is so full of...well, buildings.

 

[jis]

Remember that to get from Queens to Manhattan by rail you have four tunnel tubes to NYP and soon two to NYG. I doubt these have any room at rush hour.

It is hard to tell whether something that has not seen a single train run through it yet is at full capacity. In any case a significant proportion of the trains that will run through the new East River Tubes to GCT will come from the East River Tubes to Penn Station. So much so that they will make room for a few tph for the MNRR service to Penn Station. But still there will be significant capacity left to be filled at rush hours and they will be not so full at hours other than the two rush ones in morning and evening of weekdays. And all that also depends on classic pre-pandemic rush hour actuallt returning too, something yet to be seen.

So it is really not as open and shut a case as you seem to think it is.

For the subway you have the Astoria line, the Flushing line, and the Queens Boulevard line, all at full capacity at their East River tunnels.

Again only at a few rush hours. There is plenty of capacity at other hours.

 

[neroden]

Prior to the pandemic the LIRR and the subway were operating a more than 100% capacity in rush hours.

This isn't accurate.

Certain lines, like the Lexington Avenue Line (East Side IRT) have been running over 100% capacity frequently. The N/W line to Astoria, which would be extended to Laguardia under this proposal, was NOT one of the over-capacity lines.

 

[adamj023]

https://www.panynj.gov/port-authori...rt-authority-of-new-york-and-new-jersey0.html
A new report is due out for best solutions for La Guardia airport transit. There is a good balance of players now involved from competent people. So hopefully we get a very good consensus as to what is possible.

 

[jis]

Here is the news about the new report from PANYNJ

https://www.amny.com/politics/port-authority-alternatives-laguardia-airtrain/
A branch from the Astoria Subway Line using elevated alignment over the RoW of GCP is prominently mentioned.

 

[joelkfla]

A branch from the Astoria Subway Line using elevated alignment over the RoW of BQE is prominently mentioned.

Grand Central Pkwy., not Brooklyn Queens Expressway.

 

[jis]

Grand Central Pkwy., not Brooklyn Queens Expressway.

Oh right you are. Fixed in the original.

 

[BlackDiamond]

The branch of the N line sounds good. It has good connectivity in Manhattan with other subway lines. Only drawback is Ditmars Blvd. loses service as it only has the W with this plan. The version extending the line along 31st st. and 19th ave, would avoid this but I suspect there would be a lot of NIMBY issues vs. something running along GCP.

 

[joelkfla]

The branch of the N line sounds good. It has good connectivity in Manhattan with other subway lines. Only drawback is Ditmars Blvd. loses service as it only has the W with this plan. The version extending the line along 31st st. and 19th ave, would avoid this but I suspect there would be a lot of NIMBY issues vs. something running along GCP.

In 2018, the last year for which ridership numbers are posted on the MTA website, 41% of Astoria line riders went to Ditmars. A 50% cut in service to that one station seems reasonable.

If there's track capacity in Manhattan, perhaps they could reactivate the center express track and send a few express trains to Ditmars during peak times.