Bad day on the Hi-Line

[montana mike]

Both east bound Empire Builders are over 5 hours late on their journeys today (5/25). Looks like the Empire Builder has hit a rough patch in trying to keep better timekeeping this summer. I know #8 finally in WI and heading to CHI was due to a failed locomotive (and I believe BNSF came to the rescue on that one), not sure of the reason behind the big delay for #8 still in Montana.

 

[CCC1007]

I was told that BNSF 7799 was added in Seattle

 

[TraneMan]

not sure of the reason behind the big delay for #8 still in Montana.

This is what I've seen else where..

Train 8-23 has also been significantly delayed by striking debris on the track west of Whitefish. A BNSF locomotive was added, and the Amtrak locomotive set out.

 

[montana mike]

I will ask my local BNSF contact about this. Wow-that's two EBs in a row that had locomotive issues. Rats.

 

[Phil S]

Traneman -- Thanks for the info! Where did you find the quote? Not from TO or railroad.net and Google turned up no news. I'm always looking for new news sources.

-- Phil

 

[Zach]

when a host railroad, in this case BNSF, have a leading locamotive does a BNSF engineer have to be in the cab or can an Amtrak engineer operate it without?

 

[Phil S]

Pretty sure both are up front. Others will correct me if I' m wrong. l'd be surprised if Amtrak engineers can run freight units, and vice versa. It gets yet more complicated when a BNSF unit and engineer has to cross into CP or other signaling systems. Presumably the Amtrak engineer knows all of them, and the BNSF engineer knows his road unit so between the two of them it works fine. At least that's how I think it might work. Corrections always appreciated.

 

[PRR 60]

Pretty sure both are up front. Others will correct me if I' m wrong. l'd be surprised if Amtrak engineers can run freight units, and vice versa. It gets yet more complicated when a BNSF unit and engineer has to cross into CP or other signaling systems. Presumably the Amtrak engineer knows all of them, and the BNSF engineer knows his road unit so between the two of them it works fine. At least that's how I think it might work. Corrections always appreciated.

I believe that Amtrak engineers are qualified to operate freight units without a host railroad engineer in the cab.

 

[montana mike]

Meanwhile #8, still in MN is now almost 7 1/2 hours behind, looking like an arrival just shy of midnight in CHI-town tonight, might effect the turnaround for the next day's departure from CHI. No Springtime flooding, less construction (although still more than historical norms), and slightly less freight and the EBs still struggle with timekeeping on their eastbound journey. They just can't catch a consistent break. I was somewhat surprised that there was no "spare" P-42 available for use out of Seattle for the first delayed EB. At least BNSF has a large operation in WFH that was able to fairly quickly help with the second mishap.

 

[Ispolkom]

I was on #8(23) from Minot to St. Paul. I think that the Minot departure at 3:30 am was the worst depature I've ever had in 34 years. I've been on later Empire Builders, but for me 3-4 am is pretty much the most inconvenient time -- too late to stay up and too early to get up for.

The passengers I asked about the delay universally (3 different versions) said that the debris was intentionally placed, which seemed unlikely to me, but certainly made a better story. One version also had the train going into full emergency, with sleeper passengers thrown against the crash netting. That's perfectly believeable to me, since I've hit the netting in an upper bunk of a bedroom just from the shove pushing the two sections together in Spokane.

We left the train in St. Paul 8 hours late, shortly after hearing an announcement of the beef stew dinner that everyone would be getting. Ducked that bullet one more time.

I haven't been able to take a train in months, and the new dispostion in the dining car is annoying. Plastic utensils are okay for breakfast, I guess, but do you get a plastic steak knife at supper?

 

[Headache]

Ouch! I hope you have a better trip ahead! I'll be on the Empire Builder next month.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

I think that the Minot departure at 3:30 am was the worst depature I've ever had in 34 years. I've been on later Empire Builders, but for me 3-4 am is pretty much the most inconvenient time -- too late to stay up and too early to get up for.

I know exactly what you mean because every Westbound departure from SAS is scheduled to leave at 2:45AM.

Plastic utensils are okay for breakfast, I guess, but do you get a plastic steak knife at supper?

This move towards more and more plastic trash is apparently part of Amtrak's new brown living initiative.

 

[amtrakwolverine]

It costs more in the long run to buy plastic disposable cutlery instead of just washing the metal utensils. More bean counting to appease Rep Mica.

 

[montana mike]

The amount of trash generated by the move to "disposables" is amazing. In WFH they bring out many huge bags of trash from the dining car, which have to be picked up by one of the local trash firms and taken to the local landfill. The station agent stated to me that the new strategy has increased trash at least 4 fold over before this move. How anyone in Amtrak HQ thinks this is saving them $$ is beyond comprehension!!! I would like to see how much Amtrak is spending on all of this stuff.

And yes, the plastic and paper cups often make it feel like we are eating at a fast food eatery instead of what the Empire Builders used to be. None of the dining attendants have commented favorably on this move. I take the EBs about monthly and it is sad to see this continue.

PS--My BNSF contact locally will not say what caused the delay earlier this week. He is usually quite forthcoming, so my guess is it may have been a deliberate act and BNSF and the local police/sheriff may be investigating. Normal speed just east or west of WFH is fairly slow, nowhere near 79 mph, so not sure about how much emergency braking was required. I was on an EB that hit a truck at 79 mph several years ago and even then, while it was somewhat jarring, stuff didn't fly thru the air.

 

[amtrakwolverine]

Amtrak might be doing the switch to drive people away from the LD trains So Joe can spend all the money on his Electric train set.

 

[yarrow]

Amtrak might be doing the switch to drive people away from the LD trains So Joe can spend all the money on his Electric train set.

nicely put

 

[jebr]

If I remember right, it's supposedly some sort of accounting trick to make the dining cars look better. If they have to hire someone to clean the plates and silverware, that expense is charged to the dining cars. But the garbage disposal goes into a general expense account and is not billed to the diners/food service as a cost. Thus, while it does wind up being about the same (if not more expensive) to use the plastic plates/cups when it's all said and done, it doesn't all get billed to the food service account.

That being said, I'm pretty sure I'm one of a few that isn't turned off by the plasticware. The food's still decent, I haven't had a plate break on me yet, and I don't find the experience "cheap" quite yet.

 

[montana mike]

I have had two forks and a knife break on me and I have observed others having similar challenges as well. Have you ever tried to cut one of those so-called "baby carrots" with a plastic knife--not! No, not a huge issue, but it is happening. I have run food service ops before and we used disposables infrequently due to power issues, etc, and using these materials is far more costly. It may indeed be an accounting gimmick to shift true costs out of the dining car, but overall this is more expensive-period. Any Food Service pro will vouch for that. The plasticware they use is not top of the line stuff either. It is "serviceable" yes, but nothing more. They could save some money if they didn't have the Amtrak logos imprinted on these items, since this just adds to the costs. On our last trip one women put her fork (metal-this was dinner), thru the plastic salad bowl. Actually, we all got quite a laugh out of that one after helping her pick up various pieces of the salad from around the table.

 

[seat38a]

I have had two forks and a knife break on me and I have observed others having similar challenges as well. Have you ever tried to cut one of those so-called "baby carrots" with a plastic knife--not! No, not a huge issue, but it is happening. I have run food service ops before and we used disposables infrequently due to power issues, etc, and using these materials is far more costly. It may indeed be an accounting gimmick to shift true costs out of the dining car, but overall this is more expensive-period. Any Food Service pro will vouch for that. The plasticware they use is not top of the line stuff either. It is "serviceable" yes, but nothing more. They could save some money if they didn't have the Amtrak logos imprinted on these items, since this just adds to the costs. On our last trip one women put her fork (metal-this was dinner), thru the plastic salad bowl. Actually, we all got quite a laugh out of that one after helping her pick up various pieces of the salad from around the table.

I was on the CS and EB last week. One thing I did notice, it the LACK OF CONSISTENCY between the dining cars. For example, on the CS, its all real cloth napkins and metal utensils while on the EB, its:

Paper and Metal for Breakfast:

DSC01029 by Brian H, on Flickr

Paper and Plastic for Lunch:

DSC01104 by Brian H, on Flickr

Cloth and Metal for Dinner with Bread already at the table in a basket:

DSC01228 by Brian H, on Flickr

DSC01229 by Brian H, on Flickr

Yes I do have to agree, that its pretty much impossible to eat the ice cream with the plastic spoon or even try to cut the carrots. For the ice cream, your better off using the little scoop that comes with it in the lid.

 

[AmtrakBlue]

Hmm, how did "bad day on the hi-line" become another diner car discussion? :wacko: Another off-track thread.

So, speaking of the utensils, I had metal utensils, cloth napkin & I believe cloth table covering (not 100% sure I recall that correctly) on the Cardinal a week ago.

 

[CHamilton]

Hmm, how did "bad day on the hi-line" become another diner car discussion? :wacko: Another off-track thread.

The way to an AUers heart is through his stomach.

 

[montana mike]

LOL. I guess a bad meal on the Empire Builder would fit!!! Hopefully things will settle down again to the "normal 90-120 minute delays" into Chicago for a while after the locomotive issues from last week.

 

[Ispolkom]

Normal speed just east or west of WFH is fairly slow, nowhere near 79 mph, so not sure about how much emergency braking was required. I was on an EB that hit a truck at 79 mph several years ago and even then, while it was somewhat jarring, stuff didn't fly thru the air.

Oh, that's certainly true, though I one informant did describe a burning smell coming from the sleeping car's brakes. Perhaps a brake line decoupled in the incident and dumped the air.

From my personal experience, in a bedroom upper bunk you can wake up thinking that you've flown through the air, and only were saved by the crash netting, over an incident that would probably have been far less noticible if you were awake.

In defense of the Empire Builder's dining car, I usually only have breakfast in it if the train is running near time. In all of the cost cutting, one thing remains. The oatmeal is still old-fashioned steel cut oats, probably made overnight in a crockpot. I always expect that Amtrak will switch to the wallpaper paste called "instant oatmeal," and to my taste the grits are instant, but so far they've held the line on the oatmeal. As long as that holds true, I'm willing to use a plastic spoon. I do get an odd look, though, when I ask for Tabasco for the oatmeal.

 

[NW cannonball]

Normal speed just east or west of WFH is fairly slow, nowhere near 79 mph, so not sure about how much emergency braking was required. I was on an EB that hit a truck at 79 mph several years ago and even then, while it was somewhat jarring, stuff didn't fly thru the air.

Oh, that's certainly true, though I one informant did describe a burning smell coming from the sleeping car's brakes. Perhaps a brake line decoupled in the incident and dumped the air.

From my personal experience, in a bedroom upper bunk you can wake up thinking that you've flown through the air, and only were saved by the crash netting, over an incident that would probably have been far less noticible if you were awake.

In defense of the Empire Builder's dining car, I usually only have breakfast in it if the train is running near time. In all of the cost cutting, one thing remains. The oatmeal is still old-fashioned steel cut oats, probably made overnight in a crockpot. I always expect that Amtrak will switch to the wallpaper paste called "instant oatmeal," and to my taste the grits are instant, but so far they've held the line on the oatmeal. As long as that holds true, I'm willing to use a plastic spoon. I do get an odd look, though, when I ask for Tabasco for the oatmeal.

In a roomette upper bunk, between Fargo and Grand Forks, 20 years ago and now, it seems my dreams are of -- rolling side-to-side -- gradually getting upright - and sliding sideways again.

The twice I've been on an Amtrak LD train where the air hose broke and emergency braking happened -- no big deal. Once, the roomette door slid closed. Once, entering the diner, holding the grab iron, it seemed that gravity re-oriented for a moment or two. I'm thinking the emergency brakes are very effieciently calibrated for no-slip fast stop.

Hear here for real oatmeal, and good brakes.