Baltimore to Chicago?

[Philly Amtrak Fan]

I have mentioned (beaten to death) about the lack of a direct Chicago-Keystone route that was cancelled in 1995 (BR) and 2005 (TR). The route not only gave direct access from Chicago to my hometown market of Philly but the entire route between PGH and PHL. In addition, the BR and TR also served Trenton and Newark as well as NYP.

Currently passengers between WAS and NYP along the NEC can only get to Chicago on the Cardinal or by transferring while passengers between PGH and PHL must transfer in PGH at "bad" hours. The proposed CL/Pennsylvanian hook would help those between PGH and NYP when (or if?) it comes.

However, one big Eastern market, Baltimore, will still lack a daily train to Chicago. I am not sure there was in my Amtrak memories either. Obviously Penn Station is very close to Washington Union Station and you can also take MARC to WAS in addition to connecting services via Amtrak (NER/Acela). The connection to WAS based on the schedule is still way faster.

BAL to CHI on Cardinal: 9:30am to 10:05am next day (25 hr, 35 min)
BAL to WAS to CHI on 125/CL: 2:14pm to 8:45am next day (19 hr, 31 min)

So my question to Baltimore area residents (or those wishing to travel there from Chicago and beyond): How do you usually get to/from WAS to BAL (Amtrak/MARC/drive/other) and how convenient is it?

Is there a decent way to have a direct route from BAL to CHI other than the Cardinal? The Cap/Pennsylvanian through cars won't work for BAL. Could the LSL be extended south? The CL north won't work with Superliners.

 

[MikefromCrete]

How about riding Amtrak or MARC to Washington and transfer to the Capitol Limited. That seems easy enough. Back in the day, the Baltimore and Ohio used to offer direct service from Baltimore to Chicago (via D.C.), but then the B&O was headquartered in Baltimore, so it was more a civic pride thing.

 

[Hal]

How about riding Amtrak or MARC to Washington and transfer to the Capitol Limited. That seems easy enough. Back in the day, the Baltimore and Ohio used to offer direct service from Baltimore to Chicago (via D.C.), but then the B&O was headquartered in Baltimore, so it was more a civic pride thing.

Riding Amtrak or MARC to Washington and transferring to the Capital Limited would be too easy. Better to come up an impossible plan.....

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[afigg]

If taking MARC or an Amtrak Regional from BAL to WAS is too simple, one could take the light rail stub service from Penn Station to the Convention Center or Camden Yards. Then get off and take the next light rail train heading south to BWI airport. Or if starting from downtown Baltimore, walk a few blocks west to take the light rail to BWI airport (or MARC Camden Line to DC Union Station if on a weekday and there is a Camden line MARC train headed southbound).

Then at BWI, take one of 2 options:

A. Bus to BWI Amtrak/MARC station, then Amtrak or MARC from BWI station to WAS.

or the fun how many transfers and trains can one accomplish way:

B. WMATA B30 bus from BWI airport terminal to Greenbelt Metro, DC Metro from Greenbelt to Gallery Place, then transfer to the Red Line to Union Station.

There are multiple options to get from Baltimore to DC Union Station! If Gov. Hogan had not killed the Red Line light rail project, then going from downtown Baltimore to DC Union Station would have been simple in 6 or 7 years: Red line to West Baltimore station, then MARC Penn Line to DC Union Station.

 

[Joeker]

Impossible plan is to restore the Northern Central RR thorough York PA to Harrisburg to connect with revived BL limited from NYP!

 

[FormerOBS]

In the days of B&O operation, I believe some of their trains terminated in DC at some times, but Baltimore was probably preferred because, in addition to being the road's headquarters, that was also the location of most of the B&O's maintenance facilities. Nowadays, Amtrak terminal/shop facilities are centered in DC --- not Baltimore --- so Baltimore is not a logical end point for any long distance service. I suppose some cars could be split off of the Pennsylvanian at Philadelphia and sent south for direct service from points in PA to DC via Baltimore, but I'm not convinced the market would justify it when a simple change of train would be much simpler and less costly than the additional switching in Philadelphia.

A restored Northern Central, Harrisburg to Baltimore and on to DC, would be very nice. Dream on!

Tom

 

[Ryan]

How about riding Amtrak or MARC to Washington and transfer to the Capitol Limited. That seems easy enough. Back in the day, the Baltimore and Ohio used to offer direct service from Baltimore to Chicago (via D.C.), but then the B&O was headquartered in Baltimore, so it was more a civic pride thing.

Riding Amtrak or MARC to Washington and transferring to the Capital Limited would be too easy. Better to come up an impossible plan.....Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

This.

Or the Cardinal.

But I just live here. Maybe us "Baltimorons" are just better at handling transfers than our neighbors to the north.

 

[Philly Amtrak Fan]

How about riding Amtrak or MARC to Washington and transfer to the Capitol Limited. That seems easy enough. Back in the day, the Baltimore and Ohio used to offer direct service from Baltimore to Chicago (via D.C.), but then the B&O was headquartered in Baltimore, so it was more a civic pride thing.

Riding Amtrak or MARC to Washington and transferring to the Capital Limited would be too easy. Better to come up an impossible plan.....Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

This.

Or the Cardinal.

But I just live here. Maybe us "Baltimorons" are just better at handling transfers than our neighbors to the north.

There are more options from BAL to WAS than PHL to WAS (or NYP). Plus it's quite a bit closer.

 

[benjibear]

I would love to see the Northern Central from Baltimore to Harrisburg but that will never happen. In MD it is a trail and in PA to York it is a tourist rail line with a trail that runs with it. It is a very nice trail though.

Still in the relm of never happening would be a Baltimore to Harrisburg run via the Port Deposit line. A Couple stops in PA maybe at Columbia, Marietta, and Middletown could be a very useful North South route that could connect central PA with the southern lines without having to go east. They could continue this train right through to Chicago. I won't hold my breath but it would be nice.

 

[BALtoNYPtraveler]

I'm in Baltimore but I'm not sure I understand your question. Is it: How to get from BAL to Washington's Union Station? Normally I would drive, but it depends on what I'm doing. I understand there is a route from Union Station out to Chicago. You can ride either the Marc or the Amtrak from Penn Station Baltimore to Union Station in Washington. How about keeping it simple and taking the Amtrak? It's only a 40 minute or so ride.

 

[Philly Amtrak Fan]

I'm in Baltimore but I'm not sure I understand your question. Is it: How to get from BAL to Washington's Union Station? Normally I would drive, but it depends on what I'm doing. I understand there is a route from Union Station out to Chicago. You can ride either the Marc or the Amtrak from Penn Station Baltimore to Union Station in Washington. How about keeping it simple and taking the Amtrak? It's only a 40 minute or so ride.

Well I point that the only route from BAL to CHI is the Cardinal. I am assuming most people would prefer to go to WAS first. In that case, how much more beneficial would a direct BAL to CHI route be than going to Union Station? If the prevailing opinion is it's not too hard or inconvenient to get from BAL to WAS then the direct route won't be too much of a gain. I wonder if people in Newark would say the same thing concerning NYP.

When I went from Trenton to CHI, I was on a Rail Pass so taking an NER from TRE to NYP was a segment I had available anyway. But I believe NJT from TRE to NYP is usually cheaper than Amtrak NER (or Amtrak TRE to WAS or PHL to WAS). Plus, they're unreserved. So buy a ticket and you can use it on any train and not have to change it if the LSL comes in late to NYP. The downside is the LSL is scheduled to get into NYP at 6:23pm while the CL is scheduled to get into WAS at 1:05pm (of course last time it actually got in after 4pm). So add two hours and you would get to Philly much later via the LSL all things being equal. Going to CHI the difference in time isn't significant (NYP 3:40pm, WAS 4:05pm).

Off topic question: Has NJT ever considered extending the New York to Trenton train to Philadelphia? NJT does service Philly from Atlantic City. Maybe they don't want to have a train that starts and end outside NJ? But they are talking about the Lackawanna Cutoff train to Scranton, PA.

 

[Ryan]

In that case, how much more beneficial would a direct BAL to CHI route be than going to Union Station? If the prevailing opinion is it's not too hard or inconvenient to get from BAL to WAS then the direct route won't be too much of a gain.

Not at all.

It won't.

 

[me_little_me]

How about riding Amtrak or MARC to Washington and transfer to the Capitol Limited. That seems easy enough. Back in the day, the Baltimore and Ohio used to offer direct service from Baltimore to Chicago (via D.C.), but then the B&O was headquartered in Baltimore, so it was more a civic pride thing.

Riding Amtrak or MARC to Washington and transferring to the Capital Limited would be too easy. Better to come up an impossible plan.....

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

BAL to NOL on the Crescent; overnight in NOL then CONO to Chicago. Two trains; too expensive; too long; two thousand dollars with high bucket BRs, high end hotel in NOL and high priced meal there for dinner.

 

[MARC Rider]

If taking MARC or an Amtrak Regional from BAL to WAS is too simple, one could take the light rail stub service from Penn Station to the Convention Center or Camden Yards. Then get off and take the next light rail train heading south to BWI airport. Or if starting from downtown Baltimore, walk a few blocks west to take the light rail to BWI airport (or MARC Camden Line to DC Union Station if on a weekday and there is a Camden line MARC train headed southbound).

Then at BWI, take one of 2 options:

A. Bus to BWI Amtrak/MARC station, then Amtrak or MARC from BWI station to WAS.

or the fun how many transfers and trains can one accomplish way:

B. WMATA B30 bus from BWI airport terminal to Greenbelt Metro, DC Metro from Greenbelt to Gallery Place, then transfer to the Red Line to Union Station.

There are multiple options to get from Baltimore to DC Union Station! If Gov. Hogan had not killed the Red Line light rail project, then going from downtown Baltimore to DC Union Station would have been simple in 6 or 7 years: Red line to West Baltimore station, then MARC Penn Line to DC Union Station.

No, from Greenbelt, DC Metro on Green Line to Ft. Totten. Transfer to Red Line to Union Station. It's faster and has less stops.

Really, riding the NER from BAL to WAS to catch the Cap and in reverse is no big deal. That's how I usually go, Though I'v also taken the Cardinal for a direct one-seat ride. But then, a lotof times I'm going west, I'm leaving from work in downtown DC, so the transfer is inevitable, anyway.

 

[MARC Rider]

If taking MARC or an Amtrak Regional from BAL to WAS is too simple, one could take the light rail stub service from Penn Station to the Convention Center or Camden Yards. Then get off and take the next light rail train heading south to BWI airport. Or if starting from downtown Baltimore, walk a few blocks west to take the light rail to BWI airport (or MARC Camden Line to DC Union Station if on a weekday and there is a Camden line MARC train headed southbound).

Then at BWI, take one of 2 options:

A. Bus to BWI Amtrak/MARC station, then Amtrak or MARC from BWI station to WAS.

or the fun how many transfers and trains can one accomplish way:

B. WMATA B30 bus from BWI airport terminal to Greenbelt Metro, DC Metro from Greenbelt to Gallery Place, then transfer to the Red Line to Union Station.

There are multiple options to get from Baltimore to DC Union Station! If Gov. Hogan had not killed the Red Line light rail project, then going from downtown Baltimore to DC Union Station would have been simple in 6 or 7 years: Red line to West Baltimore station, then MARC Penn Line to DC Union Station.

No, from Greenbelt, DC Metro on Green Line to Ft. Totten. Transfer to Red Line to Union Station. It's faster and has less stops.

Really, riding the NER from BAL to WAS to catch the Cap and in reverse is no big deal. That's how I usually go, Though I'v also taken the Cardinal for a direct one-seat ride. But then, a lotof times I'm going west, I'm leaving from work in downtown DC, so the transfer is inevitable, anyway.

One thing to consider when using a MARC train to connect to Amtrak for a longer trip is that if you're carrying any amount of luggage, the storage space on the multilevel MARC cars is next to non-existent. In fact, there's barely enough room for my gym bag, forget about any kind of overnight bag. The single level cars have decent luggage racks, but they're pretty rare, at least during the rush hour. Also, if you have an Amtrak NER ticket plus your Capitol Limited ticket, you can check bags through from Baltimore (but you'd probably have to check them the day before to make the connection -- though perhaps if it's shipped in the Silver Star to Washington, it will make the connection.)

 

[railbuck]

Currently passengers between WAS and NYP along the NEC can only get to Chicago on the Cardinal or by transferring while passengers between PGH and PHL must transfer in PGH at "bad" hours.

"Can only get to Chicago" by any one of four routes with daytime hours at both endpoints. What about the places where people can't get to Chicago at all because there's no Amtrak service whatsoever (Columbus, Lexington, Nashville, South Dakota)? What about the places where the only Amtrak service to Chicago is in the middle of the night (Cleveland, western KY/TN, and the entire states of North Dakota, Kansas, Nebraska, and Arkansas)? What about Cincinnati, where the only Amtrak service to Chicago is in the middle of the night and less than one train a day?

You guys on the NEC have it so much better than most of the country. And still you complain about maybe having to change trains in the middle of the day at a major station with tons of options for shopping, food, and sightseeing. :huh:

 

[Philly Amtrak Fan]

Currently passengers between WAS and NYP along the NEC can only get to Chicago on the Cardinal or by transferring while passengers between PGH and PHL must transfer in PGH at "bad" hours.

"Can only get to Chicago" by any one of four routes with daytime hours at both endpoints. What about the places where people can't get to Chicago at all because there's no Amtrak service whatsoever (Columbus, Lexington, Nashville, South Dakota)? What about the places where the only Amtrak service to Chicago is in the middle of the night (Cleveland, western KY/TN, and the entire states of North Dakota, Kansas, Nebraska, and Arkansas)? What about Cincinnati, where the only Amtrak service to Chicago is in the middle of the night and less than one train a day?

You guys on the NEC have it so much better than most of the country. And still you complain about maybe having to change trains in the middle of the day at a major station with tons of options for shopping, food, and sightseeing. :huh:

How do you get four routes? Capitol, Lake Shore, ?

Trust me, I certainly feel for other cities too. I would certainly support service/better service in Ohio/Kentucky/Tennessee and other places (Atlanta for example) which would dramatically increase R & R and have certainly made several proposals to introduce/expand services to other areas other than Philly.

 

[Thirdrail7]

Currently passengers between WAS and NYP along the NEC can only get to Chicago on the Cardinal or by transferring while passengers between PGH and PHL must transfer in PGH at "bad" hours.

"Can only get to Chicago" by any one of four routes with daytime hours at both endpoints. What about the places where people can't get to Chicago at all because there's no Amtrak service whatsoever (Columbus, Lexington, Nashville, South Dakota)? What about the places where the only Amtrak service to Chicago is in the middle of the night (Cleveland, western KY/TN, and the entire states of North Dakota, Kansas, Nebraska, and Arkansas)? What about Cincinnati, where the only Amtrak service to Chicago is in the middle of the night and less than one train a day?

You guys on the NEC have it so much better than most of the country. And still you complain about maybe having to change trains in the middle of the day at a major station with tons of options for shopping, food, and sightseeing. :huh:

How do you get four routes? Capitol, Lake Shore, ?

I believe he is referring to the days when the Cardinal operates. On those days, passengers along the NEC can:

1) Take the Cardinal directly.

2) Board a train and connect to the Lake Shore.

3) Board a train to WAS and connect to Capitol Limited

or

4) Board a train, connect to the Pennsylvanian and transfer at PGH.

Whether it is palatable or not is debatable, but there are four different ways to do it when the Cardinal is in operation.

 

[Thirdrail7]

How about riding Amtrak or MARC to Washington and transfer to the Capitol Limited. That seems easy enough. Back in the day, the Baltimore and Ohio used to offer direct service from Baltimore to Chicago (via D.C.), but then the B&O was headquartered in Baltimore, so it was more a civic pride thing.

Riding Amtrak or MARC to Washington and transferring to the Capital Limited would be too easy. Better to come up an impossible plan.....Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

This.

Or the Cardinal.

But I just live here. Maybe us "Baltimorons" are just better at handling transfers than our neighbors to the north.

There are more options from BAL to WAS than PHL to WAS (or NYP). Plus it's quite a bit closer.

Bal to Was may be closer than PHL to WAS, but there are far more options from PHL-NYP than any place in the system. There are regional, keystone, acela and if necessary, long distance trains that can be utilized. Additionally, there are commuter services that can be pieced together if you have the time.

 

[chakk]

How about Greenbelt metro to Gallery Place, then Red Line metro in the other direction to Rockville and catch the CL at the Rockville Amtrak station.

 

[Philly Amtrak Fan]

Currently passengers between WAS and NYP along the NEC can only get to Chicago on the Cardinal or by transferring while passengers between PGH and PHL must transfer in PGH at "bad" hours.

"Can only get to Chicago" by any one of four routes with daytime hours at both endpoints. What about the places where people can't get to Chicago at all because there's no Amtrak service whatsoever (Columbus, Lexington, Nashville, South Dakota)? What about the places where the only Amtrak service to Chicago is in the middle of the night (Cleveland, western KY/TN, and the entire states of North Dakota, Kansas, Nebraska, and Arkansas)? What about Cincinnati, where the only Amtrak service to Chicago is in the middle of the night and less than one train a day?

You guys on the NEC have it so much better than most of the country. And still you complain about maybe having to change trains in the middle of the day at a major station with tons of options for shopping, food, and sightseeing. :huh:

How do you get four routes? Capitol, Lake Shore, ?

I believe he is referring to the days when the Cardinal operates. On those days, passengers along the NEC can:

1) Take the Cardinal directly.

2) Board a train and connect to the Lake Shore.

3) Board a train to WAS and connect to Capitol Limited

or

4) Board a train, connect to the Pennsylvanian and transfer at PGH.

Whether it is palatable or not is debatable, but there are four different ways to do it when the Cardinal is in operation.

The Pennsylvanian hasn't gone anywhere near Chicago in over 10 years. You can say it's a way to get to Chicago but it certainly isn't a train that goes there.

As much as I dislike transfers, I'm not going to waste 6 hours to make sure to avoid one. I missed a connection with which if the CL had gotten in on time I would've had almost 3 full hours to make the connection in WAS (and might have been able to get on an earlier train to Philly), took a train two hours later than I was scheduled (left WAS around 6pm) and STILL made into Trenton before the Cardinal got there (and the Cardinal leaves CHI before the CL).

 

[AmtrakBlue]

Currently passengers between WAS and NYP along the NEC can only get to Chicago on the Cardinal or by transferring while passengers between PGH and PHL must transfer in PGH at "bad" hours.

"Can only get to Chicago" by any one of four routes with daytime hours at both endpoints. What about the places where people can't get to Chicago at all because there's no Amtrak service whatsoever (Columbus, Lexington, Nashville, South Dakota)? What about the places where the only Amtrak service to Chicago is in the middle of the night (Cleveland, western KY/TN, and the entire states of North Dakota, Kansas, Nebraska, and Arkansas)? What about Cincinnati, where the only Amtrak service to Chicago is in the middle of the night and less than one train a day?

You guys on the NEC have it so much better than most of the country. And still you complain about maybe having to change trains in the middle of the day at a major station with tons of options for shopping, food, and sightseeing. :huh:

Hey, don't say "you guys". I'm only aware of ONE guy complaining. Please don't group me with him.

 

[Thirdrail7]

The Pennsylvanian hasn't gone anywhere near Chicago in over 10 years. You can say it's a way to get to Chicago but it certainly isn't a train that goes there.

That's exactly what was said. It is a way to get to Chicago and since it goes in a different direction, it is indeed a route to Chicago albeit with a transfer.

 

[Philly Amtrak Fan]

Currently passengers between WAS and NYP along the NEC can only get to Chicago on the Cardinal or by transferring while passengers between PGH and PHL must transfer in PGH at "bad" hours.

"Can only get to Chicago" by any one of four routes with daytime hours at both endpoints. What about the places where people can't get to Chicago at all because there's no Amtrak service whatsoever (Columbus, Lexington, Nashville, South Dakota)? What about the places where the only Amtrak service to Chicago is in the middle of the night (Cleveland, western KY/TN, and the entire states of North Dakota, Kansas, Nebraska, and Arkansas)? What about Cincinnati, where the only Amtrak service to Chicago is in the middle of the night and less than one train a day?

You guys on the NEC have it so much better than most of the country. And still you complain about maybe having to change trains in the middle of the day at a major station with tons of options for shopping, food, and sightseeing. :huh:

How do you get four routes? Capitol, Lake Shore, ?

I believe he is referring to the days when the Cardinal operates. On those days, passengers along the NEC can:

1) Take the Cardinal directly.

2) Board a train and connect to the Lake Shore.

3) Board a train to WAS and connect to Capitol Limited

or

4) Board a train, connect to the Pennsylvanian and transfer at PGH.

Whether it is palatable or not is debatable, but there are four different ways to do it when the Cardinal is in operation.

Now that I think about it, I think the best approach would be to go SEPTA/NJ Transit to NYP and then take the LSL. I believe there are more frequent trains from TRE to NYP on NJT than there are on Amtrak and they're unreserved. If this is true, you just buy a train ride from NYP to TRE before leaving for CHI and then take the first available train in NYP to TRE once you get to Penn Station without having to deal with an Amtrak ticket agent to change your ticket (trust me it was horrible in WAS after the CL got in late as many people had to change their tickets). Plus Amtrak doesn't get the extra money traveling from PHL to NYP/WAS (unless I'm using a Rail Pass) and NJT is usually much cheaper to NYP from TRE (and the SEPTA Trenton line is a decent connection from PHL at TRE).

Maybe if enough Amtrak passengers do this Amtrak will realize that the only way anyone would travel from PHL to CHI would be .... drum roll please! ... a direct line! Give your $ to NJT instead of Amtrak and see how Amtrak reacts. Amtrak obviously won't listen to my voice or my keyboard. Maybe they'll listen to my WALLET.

 

[jis]

If you happen to have a smartphone, you don't have to buy a ticket way in advance for NJT at all. As you approach New York, buy an NJT e-ticket on your smartphone and activate it just before boarding the NJT train.

I bet Amtrak wouldn't even notice that someone gave money to NJT instead of Amtrak since there would be no record of that linked trip in any system.