Bedroom on CZ drops almost $1000 overnight

[the_traveler]

Bedroom F is the Family Room, which has it own buckets. They have nothing to do with the buckets for Bedrooms A-E.

 

[niemi24s]

While most riders care not about buckets, they do care about prices.

This is somewhat self-contradictory because the term "bucket" (with a modifier) essentially does connote price - but without a dollar value associated with it. High bucket = highest price (whatever the price may actually be). Roomette surcharges on the EB from CHI to SEA at present are $766 (high bucket) and $260 (low bucket). Perhaps the advantage of using the term "bucket" is if you say "low bucket" you've said there's nothing cheaper. But if you just say "$260" you don't know if there's anything cheaper.

But don't ask my why we don't say "high price" instead of "high bucket". The bucket bazanga has been around a long, long time. Probably the creation of some young MBA who had to come up with something that sounded important yet obscure and it became a part of the lingo.

 

[Hotblack Desiato]

I think (but am not sure) that if a reservation is cancelled, that seat or room goes back into inventory at the original fare (bucket) it was reserved at. Once that seat or room is rebooked, the bucket reverts to the previously current bucket.

If this is so, the current bucket (before someone canceled) was high bucket. Someone who booked months ago at low bucket canceled, so that room was available at low bucket - thus the drop. As soon as someone grabbed that room, the fare reverted to the current bucket (high bucket) for subsequent reservations - thus the increase.

That is not the case. Buckets are set based on existing availability, not based on a set number of rooms at each bucket. A train could be set so that when availability drops below 3 rooms, only the highest bucket gets charged. If someone cancels a low bucket room they bought months ago, but the remaining availability is still below 3, the fare is still high bucket.

 

[Hotblack Desiato]

But don't ask my why we don't say "high price" instead of "high bucket". The bucket bazanga has been around a long, long time. Probably the creation of some young MBA who had to come up with something that sounded important yet obscure and it became a part of the lingo.

Notwithstanding your disdain for people with education, the term bucket is used throughout the travel industry and has been around for a few decades or so, as a method to maximize revenue on spoilable inventory (once the train has run, you can't sell that ticket anymore).

Just be glad you're on an Amtrak forum with a (relatively) simple fare structure, and not the airlines, where they have dozens of fare classes, each of which has some number of fare buckets within it.

 

[Blackwolf]

I just got back $94 this morning after I got a Fare Alert from Amsnag on my September trip; roomette on the LSL dropped a bucket to $229. It pays to set that feature up, for sure. And I have an alert for the bedroom on our CZ leg too (we're currently in a roomette). It's currently trending at $1413, which seems pretty high to me.

 

[dogbert617]

What's a bucket? Thank you.

A price bucket is basically the various tiers of pricing, for Amtrak. If there's little demand for a train at a certain time, the Amtrak ticket price will be at the lowest tier(and thus, the lowest price bucket). But as more people start to book that particular train to ride on it as the date gets closer, the price goes up to the next highest tier, and additional tiers till tickets totally sell out for a train. I forget how many price tiers Amtrak uses before a train sells out, but I believe it's 3 price tiers.

Here's an example. Let's pretend you're doing a one way train trip from Chicago to Denver on the California Zephyr, and you're only riding in coach. The lowest priced tier(under saver) is at $97. The next highest tier(value) is at $121, and then the highest price tier for coach(flexible) is $232. The same thing applies, for the sleeping car rooms(different price tiers/buckets, based on how many sleeping rooms have sold for a certain day). And of course the further ahead you book, the more likely it is you'll find a coach ticket or sleeping room ticket for a cheaper price tier/bucket. Unlike coach ticket prices on Amtrak where you can see all the 3 price tiers displayed automatically(though whatever lower price tiers that've sold out won't show, after enough coach tickets have been purchased for a certain train date), you have to type in different dates to see the price tiers for sleeping room ticket prices. And there are fewer sleeping rooms vs. coach seats, so the price tier will increase on those quicker. Ditto with business class seats, for whatever Amtrak trains have business class.

There is also the site Amsnag, where you can check Amtrak train prices for up to a 30 day comparison period at once ahead of whatever date you choose, and see them all displayed. You can use it for all various ticket types, from coach tickets, sleeping car roomettes, up to family bedroom(which I believe is the most expensive and biggest room in the sleeping car). Business class is shown too, for those Amtrak trains with such seats(usually on regional only trains, and not on long distance trains). Anyway, the site is http://biketrain.net/amsnag/amSnag.php

 

[niemi24s]

If there's little demand for a train at a certain time, the Amtrak ticket price will be at the lowest tier(and thus, the lowest price bucket).

While this does indeed seem logical, it fails to explain why (as an example) the Family Bedroom upcharge on the Capitol Limited is never anything but the high bucket of $606 for the next 11 months. And I've never noticed it being anything but high bucket for the past two years or so. In this case, I think the explanation is that it's at a seemingly constant high bucket price not because of actual passenger demand but because of a perceived or anticipated demand by Amtrak.

And just between the two of us, I'd avoid using the term "tier" lest certain forum members cloud up and rain all over you. I been soaked after saying "bucket" instead of giving some dollar value!

By the way, if tier = bucket, then there's 5 of them for every accommodation (excluding Coach Saver fare) but the Auto Train seems to have 6 of them in play during any 11 month period.

 

[Anderson]

I ran into this on the Cap. Was booking to go to a conference, had to do a double-take on the bedroom fares (roomettes were sold out). Waited a day and the fare dropped by a few hundred dollars (I want to say that it dropped from $1200 to $850 for the whole trip NPN-MSP). Needless to say, I jumped at the lower fare.

 

[Ryan]

While this does indeed seem logical, it fails to explain why (as an example) the Family Bedroom upcharge on the Capitol Limited is never anything but the high bucket of $606 for the next 11 months. And I've never noticed it being anything but high bucket for the past two years or so. In this case, I think the explanation is that it's at a seemingly constant high bucket price not because of actual passenger demand but because of a perceived or anticipated demand by Amtrak.

Sure it explains it - the perceived demand is real, given that there are no Family Rooms available on 29 for 10 days out of the next 2 weeks and 20 days of of the next 30. Amtrak would be leaving money on the table to price the room at any other level.

 

[niemi24s]

That's certainly the situation for the next two months or so. And the demand is real and not perceived because of the number of sold out dates - customer demand. But then why are Family Bedrooms offered only at high bucket on the CL even when there are no sold-out dates from mid-December 2017 through mid-April 2018 (when I checked yesterday)? And only 2 sold-out dates from mid-September? Perhaps I should have clarified that by saying real demand was an actual demand created by riders buying tickets - and not the anticipation of that by Amtrak.

I've a feeling Amtrak prices CL Family Bedrooms at high bucket simply because the public is willing to pay high bucket - even if none or only a few of the FB's are sold. "Whatever the traffic will bear" as someone once said.

 

[AmtrakBlue]

That's certainly the situation for the next two months or so. But then why are Family Bedrooms offered only at high bucket even when there are no sold-out dates from mid-December 2017 through mid-April 2018 (when I checked yesterday)? And only 2 sold-out dates from mid-September? Perhaps I should have clarified that by saying real demand was an actual demand created by riders buying tickets - and not the anticipation of that by Amtrak.

I've a feeling Amtrak prices CL Family Bedrooms at high bucket simply because the public is willing to pay high bucket - even if none or only a few of the FB's are sold. "Whatever the traffic will bear" as someone once said.

Isn't that what most businesses do, sell their products at the highest price people will pay for them? Sounds like Amtrak is doing the right thing.

 

[Lonestar648]

In business, you price your product at a price you think your customers will buy at. Higher the demand, the higher the price you can set no matter the actual cost. This is why all hotels double or triple their rates during tourist season. Which help carry them through the low seasons when they may actually operate at a loss.

 

[Ryan]

That's certainly the situation for the next two months or so. And the demand is real and not perceived because of the number of sold out dates - customer demand. But then why are Family Bedrooms offered only at high bucket on the CL even when there are no sold-out dates from mid-December 2017 through mid-April 2018 (when I checked yesterday)? And only 2 sold-out dates from mid-September? Perhaps I should have clarified that by saying real demand was an actual demand created by riders buying tickets - and not the anticipation of that by Amtrak.

Go back and look at those dates in two months and get back with us. As long as they are on the glidescope to sell out (or close to it), selling high is appropriate.

Trains sold out months in advance indicate that the price is too low.

That's real demand, whether you recognize it or not.

 

[niemi24s]

To my way of thinking, real demand is one evidenced by ticket sales. And because, I'm fairly certain, nobody here really actually knows how many tickets have been sold for Family Bedrooms on the CL for April 2018 it seems to follow that nobody here knows what the actual customer-driven demand really is. The same goes for Family Bedrooms on 6 of the other 7 Viewliner trains with constant high bucket Family Bedrooms during April 2018.

In all of the 176 train-days for Superiners during April 2018, there are only 2 that are sold out. There's clearly some real demand because of that. But for all the other 174 train-days? Seems there ought to be a few days out there with none sold as of today.

But maybe maybe Family Bedrooms are priced like that simply because there's only one on each Superliner sleeper car? And Amtrak knows, based on past ticket sales, they can sell 'em all at high bucket? To my way of thinking that's not real demand - it's nothing more than anticipated demand.

 

[AmtrakBlue]

To my way of thinking, real demand is one evidenced by ticket sales. And because, I'm fairly certain, nobody here really actually knows how many tickets have been sold for Family Bedrooms on the CL for April 2018 it seems to follow that nobody here knows what the actual customer-driven demand really is. The same goes for Family Bedrooms on 6 of the other 7 Viewliner trains with constant high bucket Family Bedrooms during April 2018.

In all of the 176 train-days for Superiners during April 2018, there are only 2 that are sold out. There's clearly some real demand because of that. But for all the other 174 train-days? Seems there ought to be a few days out there with none sold as of today.

But maybe maybe Family Bedrooms are priced like that simply because there's only one on each Superliner sleeper car? And Amtrak knows, based on past ticket sales, they can sell 'em all at high bucket? To my way of thinking that's not real demand - it's nothing more than anticipated demand.

1st paragraph: Viewliners don't have family bedrooms.

3rd paragraph: Isn't that what we've been saying? What nickpick "real" vs "anticipated"?

 

[niemi24s]

1st para: Well, I got it right 2 of 3 times. Fixed paragraph 1.

3rd para: No, you've been saying they're high-priced because demand is high. We know demand is high in the short term because Family Bedrooms on the CL are presently sold out for 18 of the next 30 days. But nobody really knows what the demand is 10 months from now (how many tickets have been sold). Family Bedrooms on the CL are available on each of the 30 days in April 2018. But supply is certainly low compared to Roomettes and Bedrooms on Superliners.

So even if real demand (based on ticket sales) might be low 10 months from now, high bucket is asked because of low supply?

Oh, forget it! I move for cloture without a vote.

 

[Ryan]

But nobody really knows what the demand is 10 months from now

Amtrak does.

Your definition of "real demand" vs "anticipated demand" is nonsensical and serves no purpose. Think of demand as the slope of the line ticket sales are riding, not the point that you're currently sitting at.

 

[niemi24s]

Sorry, I really meant to say ". . .nobody here really knows what demand is 10 months from now."

My definition of real vs anticipated demand may be nonsensical and serve no purpose for you - but it does for me.

 

[railbuck]

If one observes a price drop similar to the one in the thread title, I offer this advice:

Bucket, Danno.

 

[chakk]

I believe "whatever the traffic will bear" (or words to that effect) was first attributed to Erie RR president Jay Gould.