Bedroom price vs. first class airfare

[Trogdor]

Another thing to consider between Amtrak and airplane travel, is that while your airplane might get you there in a fraction of the time and cost a couple of hundred dollars less depending on the route, if you're heading on vacation you have to pay for hotels when you get there on top of the airplane travel. I've yet to enjoy travel in a sleeper but if the option was coast to coast on Amtrak in sleeper (3/4 nights on train all meals inc) or a first class plane ticket (7 hours from LAX-JFK?) plus hotel bills on top, i'd much rather take Amtrak every single time

Seems to me the solution to that would be to leave two or three days later if you're flying, but don't want to pay the hotel bills.

Then again, anyone paying for a first-class ticket isn't going to worry about "hotel bills." Let's keep this discussion in the proper perspective here.

 

[Ryan]

I'm not sure that's a reasonable solution. If I'm going to Disney for a week, I'm going to want to leave home the day that vacation starts. Given the choice between:

1. Take the train, leave Friday after work and arrive on Saturday (assuming that I take a standard work week off) rested and ready to go.

2. Fly, leave Friday after work and pay for an extra night in the hotel.

3. Fly, stay home on Friday, arrive Saturday after having to get up early and get to the airport.

I'm going to choose 1 or 2 every time. It's perfectly reasonable to compare sleeping car fare to flight+hotel (for the time that you're on the train) + meals (for the time that you're on the train.

 

[fredandgingermad]

True i guess if you're paying, if you were using points/miles however.. It also depends on why you're going

 

[Devil's Advocate]

True i guess if you're paying, if you were using points/miles however.. It also depends on why you're going

Even with points you're still paying for your trip. You're just doing it in much smaller increments over a much longer period of time. There are few if any retailers who are willing to swallow a 3-5% service fee just to help you pay for your trip. In order to avoid that they simply raise their prices on everyone to cover the difference. Either way you are the one paying for your trip. The only exception I can think of is if you can get the 32K signup bonus for the AGR MC and get the ball rolling with a pack of gum or something and then never use the card again. In that one case you'd essentially be riding for free.

 

[dlagrua]

On the subject of airline first class fares vs. Amtrak sleeper fare, that argument will go on forever. Its a matter of what you feel more comfortable with. Quite frankly I would not take a first class airline fare if they gave it to me for free. I refuse to be lowered to the level of an animal and be subjected to the filthy, unhealthy, crowded, degrading, dehumanizing conditions of air travel.

As for food; I remember when airline food was served and it was all microwaved style TV dinners. Amtrak food is largely fresh prepared. The Crawfish Etoffee that we were served on the Crecent was very good. My wife enjoys the Butchers Cut steaks and she's never had a bad one. Breakfasts are as good (if not better) than any restaurant. The meats and eggs are always cooked properly; French Toast is highly rated by most travelers, although we take along a small bottle of real maple syrup to enhance the taste.

 

[Ryan]

Yes and no. It's not like choosing to pay cash or use a different credit card is going to get you a cheaper price most of the time. You're paying for the trip regardless just by going out and shopping.

Yes, there are some places that offer cash discounts, but the merchant agreement that stores have to agree to usually stipulates that if they accept a credit card they have to charge the same price cash or credit.

 

[amamba]

I totally agree with Ryan re: using points/credit cards. Most merchants (with the exception of gas stations) charge all customers one price for a given good. I pay that price regardless of if I pay with cash or my AGR MC. Now I do agree that because of bank fees, many merchants have decided to raise the prices by a few percentage points (someone has to pay for it), but all consumers are paying for that whether they pay cash or credit.

So I am not seeing how it is costing me, as a consumer, more money to use my AGR MC and accumulate points that I then redeem for free travel, since I don't carry a balance and pay it off in full each month.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

Yes and no. It's not like choosing to pay cash or use a different credit card is going to get you a cheaper price most of the time. You're paying for the trip regardless just by going out and shopping.

I never intended to dispute the fact that American consumers no longer have any choice in the matter. I simply tried to point out that their 1-2% "free points" kickback was coming from the 3-5% service charge that's built into everything they buy. Which it is. They're still paying for their own trip, whether they realize it or not. It's true that you can find an exception here and there but in general that is how it works. All of which makes me wonder if most Americans would even realize that taxes were still being charged if we simply rolled them into the advertised prices and removed them as a separate entry on the receipt. Then maybe we could award American consumers "freedom points" to redeem for basic services such as trash pickup and street maintenance and opportunistic wars in distant oil-rich lands they've never heard of. When the points run out the war ends. Hey, maybe this idea isn't as bad as it first seemed! :lol:

So I am not seeing how it is costing me, as a consumer, more money to use my AGR MC and accumulate points that I then redeem for free travel, since I don't carry a balance and pay it off in full each month.

It's not costing you more money per se, but it's still coming straight out of your own pocket. Nobody is paying for your next trip but you.

 

[Ryan]

I see your point, but without any way of avoiding paying that fee, it feels like a distinction with no real meaning to me.

 

[leemell]

Yes and no. It's not like choosing to pay cash or use a different credit card is going to get you a cheaper price most of the time. You're paying for the trip regardless just by going out and shopping.

Yes, there are some places that offer cash discounts, but the merchant agreement that stores have to agree to usually stipulates that if they accept a credit card they have to charge the same price cash or credit.

Not only in the merchant agreement, but some state laws.

 

[amamba]

Yes and no. It's not like choosing to pay cash or use a different credit card is going to get you a cheaper price most of the time. You're paying for the trip regardless just by going out and shopping.

I never intended to dispute the fact that American consumers no longer have any choice in the matter. I simply tried to point out that their 1-2% "free points" kickback was coming from the 3-5% service charge that's built into everything they buy. Which it is. They're still paying for their own trip, whether they realize it or not. It's true that you can find an exception here and there but in general that is how it works. All of which makes me wonder if most Americans would even realize that taxes were still being charged if we simply rolled them into the advertised prices and removed them as a separate entry on the receipt. Then maybe we could award American consumers "freedom points" to redeem for basic services such as trash pickup and street maintenance and opportunistic wars in distant oil-rich lands they've never heard of. When the points run out the war ends. Hey, maybe this idea isn't as bad as it first seemed! :lol:

So I am not seeing how it is costing me, as a consumer, more money to use my AGR MC and accumulate points that I then redeem for free travel, since I don't carry a balance and pay it off in full each month.

It's not costing you more money per se, but it's still coming straight out of your own pocket. Nobody is paying for your next trip but you.

But if the choice is use a card and get a free trip, or pay cash and get nothing, I'll use my AGR MC

 

[pennyk]

But if the choice is use a card and get a free trip, or pay cash and get nothing, I'll use my AGR MC

Ditto

 

[Devil's Advocate]

The merchant agreement that stores have to agree to usually stipulates that if they accept a credit card they have to charge the same price cash or credit.

Not only in the merchant agreement, but some state laws.

That really puts the lie to who our government is actually representing doesn't it?

But if the choice is use a card and get a free trip, or pay cash and get nothing, I'll use my AGR MC

Ditto

All the more reason for our government to begin insisting that businesses start including taxes in their advertised prices. Then they can manipulate the tax rate just as easily as Visa and Master Card manipulate their credit processing rates and nobody will be the wiser.

 

[Peter KG6LSE]

I'll take Amtrak chow ANY day over ANY airline slung chow.

ill take AmBurgers ANY day over chips and a half a soda .

peter

 

[Oldsmoboi]

I'm not sure that's a reasonable solution. If I'm going to Disney for a week, I'm going to want to leave home the day that vacation starts. Given the choice between:

1. Take the train, leave Friday after work and arrive on Saturday (assuming that I take a standard work week off) rested and ready to go.

2. Fly, leave Friday after work and pay for an extra night in the hotel.

3. Fly, stay home on Friday, arrive Saturday after having to get up early and get to the airport.

I'm going to choose 1 or 2 every time. It's perfectly reasonable to compare sleeping car fare to flight+hotel (for the time that you're on the train) + meals (for the time that you're on the train.

In this case, the destination is more important to you than the travel. I choose Amtrak when the travel is more important to me than the destination. (or when I have the ability to work from the train and get paid for my time)

 

[Ryan]

No, not really. Not sure why you would make that assumption even. My point was that I wouldn't delay the start of my vacation to save money.

 

[Oldsmoboi]

No, not really. Not sure why you would make that assumption even. My point was that I wouldn't delay the start of my vacation to save money.

Getting there quick is more important to you than how you get there. That is my point.

I prefer not to be nickeled and dimed, X-rayed, and stuffed like cattle into a flying sardine can whenever possible. I find the quality of that style travel to be very very low and greatly increases my stress level. However my schedule often dictated flying when I travel for work.

When I'm not trying to soak up every single minute in Great Walt Disney World Adventure Land, how I get to my destination is every bit as important as the destination itself. What good is 5 stress free days on the beach if I have to endure two stressful and uncomfortable days getting there and back?

 

[Big Iron]

Yes and no. It's not like choosing to pay cash or use a different credit card is going to get you a cheaper price most of the time. You're paying for the trip regardless just by going out and shopping.

Yes, there are some places that offer cash discounts, but the merchant agreement that stores have to agree to usually stipulates that if they accept a credit card they have to charge the same price cash or credit.

Not only in the merchant agreement, but some state laws.

Merchants pay more, as a percentage, to accept a card with rewards than for one without. Some merchants will add a "convenience fee" for credit card purchases. My son's college adds this fee when a credit card is used for tuition payments. I thought that might be a good way to stack up some AGR points but not so.

 

[Ryan]

No, not really. Not sure why you would make that assumption even. My point was that I wouldn't delay the start of my vacation to save money.

Getting there quick is more important to you than how you get there. That is my point.

Then you're mistaken, since one of the options that I said would take was taking the train. I consider riding on the train to be a part of the vacation. It's not getting there quick, it's leaving town quick that's important. I couldn't care less how long it takes me to get there.

 

[Anderson]

Yes and no. It's not like choosing to pay cash or use a different credit card is going to get you a cheaper price most of the time. You're paying for the trip regardless just by going out and shopping.

Yes, there are some places that offer cash discounts, but the merchant agreement that stores have to agree to usually stipulates that if they accept a credit card they have to charge the same price cash or credit.

Not only in the merchant agreement, but some state laws.

Merchants pay more, as a percentage, to accept a card with rewards than for one without. Some merchants will add a "convenience fee" for credit card purchases. My son's college adds this fee when a credit card is used for tuition payments. I thought that might be a good way to stack up some AGR points but not so.

There are cases where I have seriously pondered eating the "convenience fee" for the points on some transactions because of the implied value of well-used points. If the fee was 1%, I would absolutely just eat it; at 3%, it tends to be a shaky proposition...but if I ran the numbers on a planned trip and they worked out, I'd eat it. To put it another way, if I paid $150 for 15000 points, I'd call that a very good deal; at $300 it is an alright deal, while at $450 it becomes shaky. $200 for 20,000 is worthwhile; $400 is alright; and $600 can be dodgy (though if you make sure to book "through" for a decent second leg of a trip, it can be worth it).

 

[fredandgingermad]

i'd rather pay 1st class to get to the united states in the first place, riding Amtrak is vacation :lol:

 

[Ispolkom]

There are cases where I have seriously pondered eating the "convenience fee" for the points on some transactions because of the implied value of well-used points.

Another thing I consider is my actual ability to use points. I have limited vacation, and living in Minnesota, a limited choice of trains to take. So for me it's rarely been worth it to pay convenience fees or even buy AGR points, because I've already got a large supply of AGR points from various Chase boondoggles. (The Chase Continental checking account is especially missed.) For my needs I've founded it useful to diversify my purchasing, using other cards that gain hotel points or cash back. One result is that at Labor Day we have tickets on Southwest Airlines from Minneapolis to Portland, a hotel at Portland, an AGR trip PDX-CHI-NOL, a hotel in New Orleans, then another redemption NOL-CHI-MSP, all paid for by various frequent-traveler programs. Heck, we even have free drink coupons for Southwest.

The main downside is that Mrs. Ispolkom sometimes gets irritated when I tell her to switch credit cards because of some promotion.

And back to the original topic: my mother is riding tonight's #8 from Minot to St. Paul. As I wasn't sure the train would be running, I looked into plane tickets, on the off chance that I could talk Mom into flying. A roundtrip roomette ticket MOT-MSP for 6/17 returning on 6/26 is $590. Expensive, but that's not surprising for a last-minute purchase in high season. The 85 minute flight (in coach) on Delta? $794. I've flown transatlantic for less.

 

[Peter KG6LSE]

When I'm not trying to soak up every single minute in Great Walt Disney World Adventure Land, how I get to my destination is every bit as important as the destination itself. What good is 5 stress free days on the beach if I have to endure two stressful and uncomfortable days getting there and back?

AMEN

I feel the same way

NOW is this was 1992 then I may think towards the plane more but with today's systems I prefer the train .