Beech Grove Superliners

[Hanno]

Does anyone have an idea when the first car will be completed and released for use. It would be great to be able to see where each car ends up being used!

 

[Green Maned Lion]

Holy boxcars Batman! They sure have added the heavy hitters in terms of cost to be repaired. The list was provided by Amtrak; I cannot provide any info as to why the estimates vary as none was given. I would like to see a diner come out for only $382,000 as opposed to the mega-millions in bucks and time it's going to take to repair some of these wrecked cars.

On the contrary, Jay. It makes more sense to repair the heavily damaged cars with this money. The lightly damaged cars can quite easily be repaired out of general funds. Repairing the lightly damaged ones in lieu of the heavily damaged ones will leave the heavily damaged ones off the rails without the considerable capital required to fix them. This will put them back on and leave the lightly damaged cars for another day, where more normal sums of money for car refurbishment can be spent on them. This will allow basically all of the cars that are repairable to make their way back onto the system.

Amtrak's gotta strike as hard as they can while the iron is hot. We all know how rare decent Amtrak funding is. We all know Amtrak's best interests are to over invest at this point. That way they have what they need to hold them through more hostile times. Everything would be better now if Amtrak had consummated the Viewliner program prior to Carter being elected, for example.

Sadly, Amtrak is a political animal. That means its ability to do things is restricted by where it stands on the political landscape, rather than what makes sense. They need to do every last thing they can while they have the chance to do it. We all know that in 10 years, most likely without new single level cars, one of the Silvers will have to be cut because they simply won't have the needed number of Viewliners to make them all run. That in ten years, without new single level purchases, maybe, if we are lucky, one of the trains will retain full dining service. They won't have the cars to run them then.

Its been 15 years since Amtrak has been able to order long-distance rail cars now. And they weren't even able to order what they needed. Think of the trains that were cut because of it, too. The Cardinal used to be full service and daily. The Silver Palm and Broadway Limited are gone too. The Lake Shore Limited doesn't even have a bloody dining car. Think about what we've lost due to lack of Viewliners and Superliners! Full service Cardinal, the Broadway Limited, the Three Rivers, the Kentucky Cardinal (which might have survived if it had a sleeping car! Its death killed the possibility of a resurrected Floridian), the Silver Palm, the Lake Shore Limited's dining car and the Federal/Night Owl/Twilight Shoreliner.

We need to look at this from the perspective of Washington politics, not sanity and good sense!

 

[jis]

I also think that it was the right decision to fund the more expensive per unit cost repairs from the Stimulus and leave the less expensive per unit cost ones to be taken care of from general funds, since it is likely to be easier to find samll amounts at a time out of general funds than huge amounts.

 

[saxman]

So any guess as to where these cars might be distributed to? I know the Empire Builder is a given and could use and extra coach going the entire route even. Extra sleeper too? There are 6 lounges in there. Perhaps put one back on the CONO? There are 6 diners too. I wonder if they plan on making any of those a CCC. I like the concept of the CCC, but the table design sure is funky and its awkward eating at that 3 person table. I do like the modern look though.

 

[printman2000]

I wonder if they plan on making any of those a CCC. I like the concept of the CCC, but the table design sure is funky and its awkward eating at that 3 person table. I do like the modern look though.

I certainly hope not. I think they have too many already. Only the CONO is using them the way they were intended. The other trains are simply making do with a car that does not work near as well as a dining car.

 

[AlanB]

I believe that I saw it stated some where, that the diners will go to the Capitol Limited and the CCC's will come off the Capitol.

 

[Bierboy]

Can anyone that lives in that area get a couple of pics of them?

I'm gonna be in Indy April 30-May 3, so I'll try to get some pics.

 

[pismobum]

In addition to the list in this topic, 2 more cars are 'SD' (stored-damaged) vs 'WR' (wreck-repair). 33001 came off in February with no reason I have located so far, and 33010 also happened in February, but it was not 'pulled from service'.

33010 was the 'prototype' for 'diner-lite' LOUNGE conversion (all the others were DINER conversions - i.e. 38xxx cars).

If 33010 is now 'SD', then in addition to the (merciful) termination of the full diner conversions, it looks like they abandonded the idea of converting lounges too.

 

[gaspeamtrak]

I also think that it was the right decision to fund the more expensive per unit cost repairs from the Stimulus and leave the less expensive per unit cost ones to be taken care of from general funds, since it is likely to be easier to find samll amounts at a time out of general funds than huge amounts.

Jis, do you have any idea how many more Superliners there are to be repaired with minor damage that aren't on the list that are just sitting around Beach Grove/Chicago or else where at Amtrak locations/yards???

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

I also think that it was the right decision to fund the more expensive per unit cost repairs from the Stimulus and leave the less expensive per unit cost ones to be taken care of from general funds, since it is likely to be easier to find samll amounts at a time out of general funds than huge amounts.

Jis, do you have any idea how many more Superliners there are to be repaired with minor damage that aren't on the list that are just sitting around Beach Grove/Chicago or else where at Amtrak locations/yards???

Here's the logic. Amtrak has money right now-- more money than they have in years. Next year they won't have that money. Next year they won't be able to repair this lot. Next year they can repair the minor damaged stock out of their annual budget rather than stimulus money.

Remember the stimulus money is supposed to put people to work. Fixing total and near wrecks puts more people to work than fixing the paint jobs-- it means somebody has to mine iron, make steel, cast parts, ship parts, install them, ect. ect.

 

[AlanB]

I also think that it was the right decision to fund the more expensive per unit cost repairs from the Stimulus and leave the less expensive per unit cost ones to be taken care of from general funds, since it is likely to be easier to find samll amounts at a time out of general funds than huge amounts.

Jis, do you have any idea how many more Superliners there are to be repaired with minor damage that aren't on the list that are just sitting around Beach Grove/Chicago or else where at Amtrak locations/yards???

Here's the logic. Amtrak has money right now-- more money than they have in years. Next year they won't have that money. Next year they won't be able to repair this lot. Next year they can repair the minor damaged stock out of their annual budget rather than stimulus money.

Remember the stimulus money is supposed to put people to work. Fixing total and near wrecks puts more people to work than fixing the paint jobs-- it means somebody has to mine iron, make steel, cast parts, ship parts, install them, ect. ect.

I don't think that Gaspeamtrak was questioning the wisdom of why Amtrak is repairing the more heavily damaged cars, he was just curious and seeking info on how many cars might be sitting around with minor damage.

 

[jis]

I also think that it was the right decision to fund the more expensive per unit cost repairs from the Stimulus and leave the less expensive per unit cost ones to be taken care of from general funds, since it is likely to be easier to find samll amounts at a time out of general funds than huge amounts.

Jis, do you have any idea how many more Superliners there are to be repaired with minor damage that aren't on the list that are just sitting around Beach Grove/Chicago or else where at Amtrak locations/yards???

Take a look at the list in earlier posts in this thread. The ones that are not marked with a * are the ones that are yet to be scheduled for fixup.

 

[gaspeamtrak]

I also think that it was the right decision to fund the more expensive per unit cost repairs from the Stimulus and leave the less expensive per unit cost ones to be taken care of from general funds, since it is likely to be easier to find samll amounts at a time out of general funds than huge amounts.

Jis, do you have any idea how many more Superliners there are to be repaired with minor damage that aren't on the list that are just sitting around Beach Grove/Chicago or else where at Amtrak locations/yards???

Here's the logic. Amtrak has money right now-- more money than they have in years. Next year they won't have that money. Next year they won't be able to repair this lot. Next year they can repair the minor damaged stock out of their annual budget rather than stimulus money.

Remember the stimulus money is supposed to put people to work. Fixing total and near wrecks puts more people to work than fixing the paint jobs-- it means somebody has to mine iron, make steel, cast parts, ship parts, install them, ect. ect.

I don't think that Gaspeamtrak was questioning the wisdom of why Amtrak is repairing the more heavily damaged cars, he was just curious and seeking info on how many cars might be sitting around with minor damage.

That's right Alan!

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

I also think that it was the right decision to fund the more expensive per unit cost repairs from the Stimulus and leave the less expensive per unit cost ones to be taken care of from general funds, since it is likely to be easier to find samll amounts at a time out of general funds than huge amounts.

Jis, do you have any idea how many more Superliners there are to be repaired with minor damage that aren't on the list that are just sitting around Beach Grove/Chicago or else where at Amtrak locations/yards???

Here's the logic. Amtrak has money right now-- more money than they have in years. Next year they won't have that money. Next year they won't be able to repair this lot. Next year they can repair the minor damaged stock out of their annual budget rather than stimulus money.

Remember the stimulus money is supposed to put people to work. Fixing total and near wrecks puts more people to work than fixing the paint jobs-- it means somebody has to mine iron, make steel, cast parts, ship parts, install them, ect. ect.

I don't think that Gaspeamtrak was questioning the wisdom of why Amtrak is repairing the more heavily damaged cars, he was just curious and seeking info on how many cars might be sitting around with minor damage.

That's right Alan!

In that case I'm sorry!

Though, its nice to re-iterate Amtrak's logic.

 

[had8ley]

I also think that it was the right decision to fund the more expensive per unit cost repairs from the Stimulus and leave the less expensive per unit cost ones to be taken care of from general funds, since it is likely to be easier to find samll amounts at a time out of general funds than huge amounts.

Jis, do you have any idea how many more Superliners there are to be repaired with minor damage that aren't on the list that are just sitting around Beach Grove/Chicago or else where at Amtrak locations/yards???

Here's the logic. Amtrak has money right now-- more money than they have in years. Next year they won't have that money. Next year they won't be able to repair this lot. Next year they can repair the minor damaged stock out of their annual budget rather than stimulus money.

Remember the stimulus money is supposed to put people to work. Fixing total and near wrecks puts more people to work than fixing the paint jobs-- it means somebody has to mine iron, make steel, cast parts, ship parts, install them, ect. ect.

I don't think that Gaspeamtrak was questioning the wisdom of why Amtrak is repairing the more heavily damaged cars, he was just curious and seeking info on how many cars might be sitting around with minor damage.

That's right Alan!

In that case I'm sorry!

Though, its nice to re-iterate Amtrak's logic.

In answer to "how many cars are sitting around for minor repairs?"I was told that the list I was given by Amtrak was every Superliner lined up at Beech Grove; whether or not they're ultimately repaired is up to Amtrak. I'm almost certain there are cars at outlying points that need repairs but either can't be moved to Beech Grove or will be repaired in place.

 

[pismobum]

I'm almost certain there are cars at outlying points that need repairs but either can't be moved to Beech Grove or will be repaired in place.

In point of fact, NO!

Amtrak's equipment inventory shows every superliner that is active, "SD" (stored damaged) or "WR" (wreck repair). All 39 were on the list (plus the 2 I listed a few posts above) - total 41.

Yes, 'minor' problems sometimes sideline a car for a day or two somewhere, and cars rotate thru Beech Grove for routine maintenance, but there are no 'offsite' or otherwise unserviceable superliners.

If you look at the list and exclude the "*" stimulus cars, then exclude any others in the million $ or above estimate or noted as 'to be scrapped' (ain't never gonna get repaired) you'll get how many 'other cars' Amtrak may or may not repair with non-stimulus funds (up until the next wreck/derailment/fire etc puts more out of service)

 

[Thomas]

The following list was supplied by Amtrak a couple of weeks ago. Superliner LD cars now at Beech Grove;

Car # Type Repair Estimate Car Type

31006 * S1 $1,321,000 Coach bag

31012 S1 $146,000 Coach bag

31026 S1 $570,000 Coach bag

31034 S1 $970,000 Coach bag

31537 S1 $2,000,000 Smoking Lounge

32014 * S1 $1,890,000 Sleeper

32018 S1 $1,600,000 Sleeper

32035 S1 SCRAP Sleeper

32040 * S1 $1,667,000 Sleeper

32046 * S1 $1,973,000 Sleeper

32049 * S1 $1,325,000 Sleeper

32065 * S1 $1,368,000 Sleeper

32082 SII $146,000 Sleeper

32112 * SII $1,625,000 Sleeper

32501 * SII $2,170,000 Deluxe sleeper

33003 * S1 $500,000 Lounge

33011 * S1 $500,000 Lounge

33013 S1 $2,053,000 Lounge

33016 * S1 $1,184,000 Lounge

33017 S1 $500,000 Lounge

33036 * SII $1,366,000 Lounge

33045 SII SCRAP Lounge

34036 S1 SCRAP Lounge

34040 * S1 $1,472,000 Coach

34051 S1 $920,000 Coach

34087 * S1 $1,161,000 Coach

35005 S1 $435,000 Snack coach

35011 S1 $965,000 Snack coach

38000 S1 $600,000 Diner

38017 * S1 $1,868,000 Diner

38023 S1 $382,000 Diner

38026 * S1 $2,020,000 Diner

38031 * S1 $1,625,000 Diner

38049 * SII $1,706,000 Diner

39008 * SII $1,440,000 Trans/Sleep

39020 SII $2,500,000 Trans/Sleep

39023 * SII $1,578,000 Trans/Sleep

39025 & 39040 SII SCRAP Trans/Sleep

I would suspect the scrap cars are hanging around to be used for spare parts. Will be very interesting to see what comes out of Beech Grove from this list when all the repairs are complete.

The Amtrak ARRA project summary document listed the cars that are supposed to be repaired using recovery funds. I've added asterisks to those 20 cars. Interestingly, the dollar amounts here and the amounts listed in the project summary don't match up in general. Some of the others may already be programmed for existing funds (including the California Superliner project, which has two cars to go).

Why are some cars that are more expensive than others being repaired and not the cheaper ones? Does Amtrak intend to repair all of them once funding is available?

 

[dlagrua]

I would assume that refurbishment is an ongoing task as wear and tear takes its toll on trains that run for 1000's of miles weekly. It has been common that we've encountered broken items in the bedrooms and we wish that Amtrak would be more diligent in a repair capacity. Things like broken tables chairs and doors that won't keep closed are particularly annoying. Some people have even reported chairs that were totoally missing. The items that I've sited can be done in a relatively short amount of time (hours not days) and I sometimes wonder why this type of neglect isn't adressed.

 

[AlanB]

I would assume that refurbishment is an ongoing task as wear and tear takes its toll on trains that run for 1000's of miles weekly. It has been common that we've encountered broken items in the bedrooms and we wish that Amtrak would be more diligent in a repair capacity. Things like broken tables chairs and doors that won't keep closed are particularly annoying. Some people have even reported chairs that were totoally missing. The items that I've sited can be done in a relatively short amount of time (hours not days) and I sometimes wonder why this type of neglect isn't adressed.

Refurbishments and wreck repairs are not the same thing. Refurbishments are an attempt by Amtrak to extend a cars useful life and to replace things that have been worn out.

A wreck repair is a car that derailed and was damaged physically in that derailment. That could be a twisted frame, a large hole ripped into the side, or other major forms of damage to the car. Yes, the wreck repairs coming off the line these days are also being refurbished even as the wreck damage is being fixed, but wrecks & refurbishments are not the same thing.

 

[AlanB]

The following list was supplied by Amtrak a couple of weeks ago.

I would suspect the scrap cars are hanging around to be used for spare parts. Will be very interesting to see what comes out of Beech Grove from this list when all the repairs are complete.

The Amtrak ARRA project summary document listed the cars that are supposed to be repaired using recovery funds. I've added asterisks to those 20 cars. Interestingly, the dollar amounts here and the amounts listed in the project summary don't match up in general. Some of the others may already be programmed for existing funds (including the California Superliner project, which has two cars to go).

Why are some cars that are more expensive than others being repaired and not the cheaper ones? Does Amtrak intend to repair all of them once funding is available?

In some cases Amtrak choose more expensive cars simply because they were unique and desperately needed. For example the Superliner II Deluxe Sleeper for the Auto Train. In other cases I suspect that perhaps a few cars are still awaiting insurance settlements and/or NTSB inspections. Finally I think that in a few cases it was simply the hope that Amtrak would eventually be able to find the money for a few of the cheaper cars on its own. But finding a million or more would be much harder.

 

[Thomas]

So if additional funds become available, will Amtrak repair these Superliners as well?

 

[MikefromCrete]

I was under the impression that any Superliner not repaired under the Stimulus grant was too far gone to be repaired, thus the scrapping of five cars (too bad two of them are Sightseer lounges).

 

[AlanB]

I was under the impression that any Superliner not repaired under the Stimulus grant was too far gone to be repaired, thus the scrapping of five cars (too bad two of them are Sightseer lounges).

If they're repairing cars that have a Million plus in costs to repair, then I can't imagine that they plan to scrap cars with only $200K & $300K in damage.

Yes, some cars will be scrapped as noted on the list above. But there are cars on that list not being repaired and not being scrapped.

 

[AlanB]

So if additional funds become available, will Amtrak repair these Superliners as well?

Well I'm sure that if someone gives Amtrak the funds they'll be more than happy to repair them. If not, then they may languish for a while until Amtrak can find the funds on its own.

 

[dlagrua]

So if additional funds become available, will Amtrak repair these Superliners as well?

Well I'm sure that if someone gives Amtrak the funds they'll be more than happy to repair them. If not, then they may languish for a while until Amtrak can find the funds on its own.

Just imagine how much money would be available for upgrading the US rail systems, if the politicans had not given so much of our tax money to their criminal friends on Wall Street. If we stopped making and funding wars, heck that would save billions too.

Sadly Amtrak will always be an afterthought as it doesn't put millions in their campaign coffers!