Boeing 707 Promo Film from 1960

[jis]

 

[MARC Rider]

"The first year of the jet age?"
So what was the DeHavilland Comet, flying chopped liver? It entered commercial service in 1952, which should be the real "first year of the jet age."

It flew at 600 mph back in 1960. Was that air speed or ground speed? On my last flight on a 737, the flight tracker never had us going more than 450 mph, again not sure it's air speed or ground speed. OK, once on a flight from Texas, the GPS clocked us at over 750 mph. I would guess we had a tail wind, and this was ground speed, or maybe the 737 has supersonic capabilities that no one's talking about.

Flying smoothly above the weather? Well, almost all the transcontinental flights I've been on end up crossing at least one storm system, and even at 35,000+ feet, the "fasten seat belt" signs come on. On a couple of occasions, the pilots even ask the flight attendants to sit down and buckle up, which is when I really get nervous. Then there's clear air turbulence, which is apparently being increased due to climate change.

 

[jis]

This is an article about the National Aeronautics Association record held by a 720 - a derivative of a 707, which was a surprise for me...

https://www.aerotime.aero/21671-history-hour-the-yet-unchallenged-speed-record-on-boeing-720
The 707 because of its 35 degree wing sweep was inherently a faster plane than any of the other commercial jets then extant except the Convair 880/990 as I seem to recall. Specially the 990/990A were designed to be faster than the 707 or DC-8 with special structures on its wing to reduce drag. But of course there was too much else traded off in the way of range to achieve that and that worked against its eventual success.

Today the 747s are faster than any other wide body, again because it sports a more swept back wing (34 deg) than any of the others. The 7478i is the fastest of the 747s apparently clocking in at Mach 0.86. The 707 apparently had a cruising speed of Mach 0.86 or thereabouts.

The 600mph popular number comes from a flight specific flights take off to landing average speed with no details of what sort of wind it flew in. That is why other than for specific route records as the one mentioned above, when one is talking of raw speed, it is better to talk in terms of air speed, and usually speed relative to that of sound in the same pressure/temperature, which is the Mach number.

 

[MARC Rider]

This is an article about the National Aeronautics Association record held by a 720 - a derivative of a 707, which was a surprise for me...

https://www.aerotime.aero/21671-history-hour-the-yet-unchallenged-speed-record-on-boeing-720
The 707 because of its 35 degree wing sweep was inherently a faster plane than any of the other commercial jets then extant except the Coronado [sic] 880/990 as I seem to recall. Specially the 990/990A were designed to be faster than the 707 or DC-8 with special structures on its wing to reduce drag. But of course there was too much else traded off in the way of range to achieve that and that worked against its eventual success.

I believe you meant the Convair 880 and 990. BTW, the Convair 880 was the first jet plane I ever rode. When I was about 8, my parents sent me down to Florida to visit my grandparents, and I flew down on a DC-7 (my first flight) and flew home on the Convair 880. I remember that they made a big deal about how it was the fastest airliner in the world.

 

[jis]

I believe you meant the Convair 880 and 990. BTW, the Convair 880 was the first jet plane I ever rode. When I was about 8, my parents sent me down to Florida to visit my grandparents, and I flew down on a DC-7 (my first flight) and flew home on the Convair 880. I remember that they made a big deal about how it was the fastest airliner in the world.

Huh? Which part of my post are you referring to?

A specific route record is something that the NAA certifies after ascertaining that whatever their requirements are, are fully met.

As I mentioned, the Convair 990A was in the same size class as the 707 and had the fastest cruise speed, but it was not very widely used and did not last long because it never met the range requirements placed on it by American. The 880 was too small to compete effectively on operating cost with the 707 and DC-8.

Anyway, the Convair 880/990 were General Dynamics' last hurrah in commercial passenger jests

 

[MARC Rider]

Huh? Which part of my post are you referring to?

A specific route record is something that the NAA certifies after ascertaining that whatever their requirements are, are fully met.

As I mentioned, the Convair 990A was in the same size class as the 707 and had the fastest cruise speed, but it was not very widely used and did not last long because it never met the range requirements placed on it by American. The 880 was too small to compete effectively on operating cost with the 707 and DC-8.

Anyway, the Convair 880/990 were General Dynamics' last hurrah in commercial passenger jests

The original text of your post identified the plane(s) as the "Coronado" 880/990, and I was just correcting that to "Convair" 880/990, that's all.

 

[jis]

The original text of your post identified the plane(s) as the "Coronado" 880/990, and I was just correcting that to "Convair" 880/990, that's all.

Ah I see. Thanks! Corrected in the original.

 

[PVD]

Coronado was the marketing name attached to the 990. Convair 990 Coronado. These days, airlines fly planes at speeds that will save fuel, not time. Also, in busy paths, you can't fly appreciably faster than whatever is in front of you, to maintain spacing.

 

[PVD]

As many 707 that were out there, I only flew them a couple of times towards the tail end of their time at American. My first few flights were to Florida, and back then we flew Eastern, JFK to Miami, DC-8s A few years later those kind of routes wee all 727... And soon after, domestic widebodys were real common, on routes to and from NYC.

 

[jis]

Coronado was the marketing name attached to the 990. Convair 990 Coronado. These days, airlines fly planes at speeds that will save fuel, not time. Also, in busy paths, you can't fly appreciably faster than whatever is in front of you, to maintain spacing.

I have noticed that on the red eyes they seem to get a lot of direct routings where they are not behind anyone until they get near a TCA.

Interestingly, the trend in the latest models have been to increase the natural speed of the wing. For example a 787 has a faster wing than a 777 which has a faster wing than a 767 or 737. 747 is of course from an era when they did build planes with faster wings but still the 747-8 is faster cruise than any of the other 747s, and the A380 is pretty fast too. I wonder what is going on.

OTOH, the Convairs never lived upto their high speed and efficient, intended reputation, since they never managed to get the fuel efficiency of the 707 or DC-8.

As many 707 that were out there, I only flew them a couple of times towards the tail end of their time at American. My first few flights were to Florida, and back then we flew Eastern, JFK to Miami, DC-8s A few years later those kind of routes wee all 727... And soon after, domestic widebodys were real common, on routes to and from NYC.

I had my first 707 flight in their heyday in 1965, when the 747 was still a few years away. They were at that time the Queen of the skies and stood out wherever they were. They did so even more at Moscow's Sheremetyevo Airport where our Air India 707 was the only jet commercial aircraft at that airport during an en route stop from Delhi to London. As it turned out my first flight ever was on that 707 - a newly delivered one named "Lhotse" and the flight was AI 505 DEL - SVO - LHR. We were enroute to Boston for a year long visit to the US.

 

[PVD]

I never flew on a 990, but TWA had an oddball flight to Hartford for a while (must have been some kind of loop closer for routing or a way to get it to JFK for overnight service) and I wanted to fly one before they were gone. Back then with student fares and standby, it didn't cost much. The convairs had GE engines, they burnt more fuel than a like sized P&W

 

[caravanman]

My first visit to India involved a ride on a 707, in 1983. Bangladesh Biman from Athens to Bombay. (Mumbai). Not sure what we flew back on, it was Aeroflot, from Kuala Lumpur to Delhi, to Tashkent, to Moscow, to London. (It was cheap!)

 

[PVD]

IL-62 perhaps.... 4 rear mounted engines much like a VC-10

 

[jis]

I flew on a BOAC Super VC10 in 1966 JFK - LHR. Then within Europe I flew on among others, a Caravelle (AF) and a BAC-111 (BEA).

 

[PVD]

United had some Caravelles briefly, and the BAC-111 was also purchased by a few airlines here, American, Branniff, Aloha, and Mohawk, whose planes became part of the Allegheny fleet, when they went bust, I had the joy of flying in one back from Buffalo in a bad snow storm, after doing a campus tour of UB. (I did not go there after that)

 

[Dakota 400]

The only time that I flew on a 707 was on a TWA flight from DAY to ORD. Was surprised that they were using such a large plane for such a short flight. We passengers had lots and lots of space; it was a small load of people.

 

[west point]

The 880 - 990 series were designed to be speedier than the 707 and DC-8. Delta had the most and heavily advertised them in the Atlanta market. However they were a real handful and after awhile if some one had bid on the Convair and wanted to go back to another they could. Delta had several fatal training accidents as well.

they were known as the fastest airplanes between the markers. That is the outer markers both Take off and landing. You had to get out of their way if in front especially landing because they only had brakes with no reverse. ATC would often say " keep up your speed ____ " 880 behind you.

 

[sttom]

The 707 was very clearly the piece of technology that killed off long distance passenger service. Well its what held its head under until the bubbles stopped. Cars hurt the railroads, jets took the first class, long distance customers away. The thing I wonder is Zoom and other teleconferencing going to be the thing that does them in?

 

[PVD]

They (880) were 5 across seating and burnt too much fuel...720 was a better deal

 

[billl]

I flew on a 707 from Hartford to Boston and then onto London on TWA in February of 1974. Was a good flight...the movie was American Graffiti. Coming home in June we flew on a TWA 747 which had turned backed to London after takeoff on the previous day (or so we were told).

Flew on a Convair 880 from Friendship Airport in Baltimore (now BWI) to Atlanta in the late 60's.
The 707's and Convair 880's were both good planes in my opinion.

 

[Asher]

"The first year of the jet age?"
So what was the DeHavilland Comet, flying chopped liver? It entered commercial service in 1952, which should be the real "first year of the jet age."
It flew at 600 mph back in 1960.

The Comet was really a pretty airplane, I used to see them when traveling to Mexico in the 60s. Mexicana Airlines flew them. They had some real issues early on, i think it had to do with some fatigue cracks around a hatch that the navigator used to take navigation sightings. Lost a couple of planes. They were the first to fly passengers across the Atlantic, but in the end they didn’t have the passenger capacity or the range to compete with the Boing 707.

 

[SanDiegan]

My most recent flight was on a TWA 707 !

Loved the old school "GoPro" on the helmet

 

[basketmaker]

Flew a National DC-7 to Idlewild (just before it was renamed JFK) then a PanAm 707 to Munich via London and Frankfurt by myself when I was 11. Stewardesses and Steward (yes that's what they were in 1964) kept the little kid happy all the way. After 18 or so Cokes and different water in Augsburg compared to home in Miami the first night was not pretty. Sister and brother-in-law had their hands full.