Brandon Bostian acquitted on all counts the in Regional 188 derailment case

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BCL

BCL

Engineer
Joined
Nov 16, 2012
Messages
4,432
Location
San Francisco Bay Area
I guess it was all or nothing really.

PHILADELPHIA (CBS) — After a week-long trial, a jury has found Brandon Bostian, the former Amtrak engineer who operated a train that derailed in May 2015 in Philadelphia and killed eight people and injured more than 200 others, not guilty on all counts on Friday. Bostian had been charged with involuntary manslaughter, causing a catastrophe, and 238 counts of reckless endangerment.​
​
On Thursday, Bostian chose not to testify in his defense at the trial. He declined to answer why he chose not to testify outside the courtroom.​
 
jis said:
The AG of Pennsylvania should not have wasted taxpayer's money and everyone's time. But hey, a few votes and it doesn't cost them anything personally. Everyone knew that there was no case to start with.
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Wasn't it a little more complicated than that?

The Philadelphia District Attorney’s Office initially declined to file charges against Bostian. When a judge ordered the DA’s office to do so, the office recused itself, and the state Attorney General’s Office stepped in. Even so, judges dismissed charges against Bostian twice.​
 
jis said:
The AG of Pennsylvania should not have wasted taxpayer's money and everyone's time. But hey, a few votes and it doesn't cost them anything personally. Everyone knew that there was no case to start with.
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BCL said:
Wasn't it a little more complicated than that?
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Nope. Like jis said, there was no crime. He may have blown past a speed limit due to distractions or for whatever reason, so he was in violation of rules that resulted in disaster, but there was no crime,
 
George Harris said:
Nope. Like jis said, there was no crime. He may have blown past a speed limit due to distractions or for whatever reason, so he was in violation of rules that resulted in disaster, but there was no crime,
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I'm just saying it was more complicated than the PA AG prosecuting for political reasons. But yeah it was really weird how it went down, with one victim's relatives using a special process in PA law to compel a prosecution.
 
No crime, one thinks not have PTC in that area would be chargeable offense. Was quite horrified that Amtrak was leave areas with out PTC. Due to cost, and the belief that a train had to run slow there, due to the curves. So no need for PTC. The whole point of PTC is to enforce the speed limited, a set of curves is just the spot you need to make sure the trains were follow the speed limit.
 
DISCLAIMER: This post is my personal view on this case and does not reflect the views and opinions of my employer!

jis said:
The AG of Pennsylvania should not have wasted taxpayer's money and everyone's time. But hey, a few votes and it doesn't cost them anything personally. Everyone knew that there was no case to start with.
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For me it cost him a vote.
BCL said:
Wasn't it a little more complicated than that?

The Philadelphia District Attorney’s Office initially declined to file charges against Bostian. When a judge ordered the DA’s office to do so, the office recused itself, and the state Attorney General’s Office stepped in. Even so, judges dismissed charges against Bostian twice.​
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Yes, it was a little more complicated then this. The Philly DA's office declined to file criminal charges. HOWEVER, Tom Kline who is a powerful personal injury attorney stuck his nose into things and demanded that the PA State Attorney General Josh Shapiro file charges. So I can imagine that Tom Kline is having a bad day today. Personally I hope that Mr. Kline learned a lesson from this.. That being stick to personal injury and not criminal stuff.

I personally hope that Mr. Bostian can find some type of peace in his life. Even more so now that he has been found not guilty of criminal charges by a jury of his peers.
 
Just-Thinking-51 said:
No crime, one thinks not have PTC in that area would be chargeable offense. Was quite horrified that Amtrak was leave areas with out PTC. Due to cost, and the belief that a train had to run slow there, due to the curves. So no need for PTC. The whole point of PTC is to enforce the speed limited, a set of curves is just the spot you need to make sure the trains were follow the speed limit.
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It takes a long time to equip an entire network with PTC. It’s not that Amtrak didn’t want to, it’s that they hadn’t gotten to that point yet.

Speed limits due to curves apply to thousands of locations around the country, and only in the past few years has PTC really been installed outside of a few select areas.
 
When multiple prosecutors and judges expressed doubts about the sufficiency of evidence (including the trial judge) it should not be a surprise that a jury would not convict based on guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. Lot of reasonable doubt floated by folks who have a pretty good idea of what the law in PA requires. Even if the jury convicted there was a chance the judge set aside a guilty verdict in whatever manner applies in PA. Not every bad thing that happens is a crime, and too many of the calls for "justice to be served" we hear so often these days, are really thinly veiled calls for vengeance
 
By his own admission the engineer's actions caused many injuries and deaths to innocent passengers. I was not interested in seeing him locked away but I was disappointed when he put his personal freedom above the lives and deaths of those who suffered on his watch by refusing to speak openly with investigators. Seeing this and the Aguilera-Mederos case makes me feel like maybe we need to rethink how we approach crime and safety.
 
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Devil's Advocate said:
By his own admission the engineer's actions caused many injuries and deaths to innocent passengers. I was not interested in seeing him locked away but I was disappointed when he put his personal freedom above the lives and deaths of those who suffered on his watch by refusing to speak openly with investigators. Seeing this and the Aguilera-Mederos case makes me feel like maybe we need to rethink how we approach crime and safety.
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It's called self-preservation instinct and the Fifth Amendment. I don't fault Bostian or any criminal defendant, no matter how vile, for valuing his personal freedom instead of risking sacrificing it by talking to investigators. The issue was whether Bostian broke relevant laws. Since the jury found he didn't, the state by definition didn't have a compelling case to begin with.
 
Just-Thinking-51 said:
No crime, one thinks not have PTC in that area would be chargeable offense. Was quite horrified that Amtrak was leave areas with out PTC. Due to cost, and the belief that a train had to run slow there, due to the curves. So no need for PTC. The whole point of PTC is to enforce the speed limited, a set of curves is just the spot you need to make sure the trains were follow the speed limit.
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There was no PTC at the time. There was ATC, which has been around for decades using signal indications to enforce speed limits, like they have in Elizabeth after a near-wreck, and have in Back Bay after that wreck. But Amtrak decided not to activate eastbound around this curve because as Joe Boardman said "we did not think it was necessary". But in order for the NEC to re-open, FRA required ATC to be activated, and that was four hour job, not a cost issue.
 
Amtrak25 said:
The NBC News scroll under MSNBC screen mentioned Automatic Train Control was not in effect there to enforce the speed limit. That contributed toward losing the case against Bostian, taking 90 minutes to dismiss all charges.
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If ATC was operational there probably would have been no event that led to a case like this. 🤷‍♂️
 
Dutchrailnut said:
ATC was operational in area , there just was no forced reduction , just like Spuyten Duvil
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Does this mean that the Cab Signal reflected the signal aspect in force ("Clear"), but there was no civil speed limit enforcement?

My understanding is that absent ACSES the way civil speed enforcement was done was to send a more restrictive cab aspect and let the onboard speed enforcement for the signal aspect do its thing. In case of this curve such more restrictive signal aspect was not transmitted to the train. It had "Clear" hence the on board speed enforcement did not enforce anything.
 
As I understand it the signal just south of Frankford could display an approach 60. The cab signal would have reduced the speed to 60. Instead, the signal aspect was clear. Very easy for a signal maintainer to just set that signal's greatest signal as approach 60 instead of clear.

This begs the question why didn't Amtrak learn from the Back Bay curve overspeed and the MNRR overspeed? I have to wonder with all the PTC how many curves are not protected to the max speed allowed. Only accidents will find them out!

FRA cracked down on Amtrak's NEC.
 
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Devil's Advocate said:
By his own admission the engineer's actions caused many injuries and deaths to innocent passengers. I was not interested in seeing him locked away but I was disappointed when he put his personal freedom above the lives and deaths of those who suffered on his watch by refusing to speak openly with investigators. Seeing this and the Aguilera-Mederos case makes me feel like maybe we need to rethink how we approach crime and safety.
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Under our law, a person is presumed innocent until found guilty by a jury of one’s peers and has the right to remain silent and not be forced to testify against oneself. The burden of proof beyond a reasonable doubt is on the prosecution.

These rights of the people are very important and we’re established long ago. Star Courts and other show trials which represent the power of governments over the people do not establish a system of Justice but allow governments to impose their will on the people. While you may not agree with the outcome in this case, you were not on the jury nor were present at the trial to hear the evidence presented. I do not think you would want to live in a country which did not recognize such rights.
 

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