Brightline Orlando extension

[IndyLions]

You got to be impressed with this, right? Pretty amazing that this is actually happening. Got to give them a lot of credit.

I never was really comfortable with the idea of a private business taking over the NEC but this does make me wonder . . . what if?

What if? How many trains has Brightline run through the pandemic? We've just had our clearest view yet of what happens if you turn over a public service to a private enterprise. As soon as business conditions go sideways - they shut operations down and cut their losses.

Running trains isn't increasing their real estate prospects at the present time - so they have no interest in that activity. The construction projects and the "promise" of running trains in the future is what is raising the value of their real estate holdings - so that is what is holding their interest.

 

[cocojacoby]

Running trains isn't increasing their real estate prospects at the present time - so they have no interest in that activity. The construction projects and the "promise" of running trains in the future is what is raising the value of their real estate holdings - so that is what is holding their interest.

We know that. The real estate potential along the NEC is enormously more lucrative.

 

[Just-Thinking-51]

We know that. The real estate potential along the NEC is enormously more lucrative.

Pretty sure that was in the past. Unless your add station stops you have maxed out the potential. Rebuilding of station to reflect a brighter modern feel may help the surrounding areas, or not. New shine equipment may help the route, or not. Overall the NEC is built up, people are use to, the areas have been upgraded. Can a area benefit from urban renewal? Maybe the history of tearing things down is quite mixed.

 

[Qapla]

I believe that Brightline plans to go all the way through Orlando and connect Miami with Tampa and eventually Jacksonville - I don't think they are planning on only servicing the area towards Altamonte Springs, Winter Park, Longwood and Oviedo ... so I do not see what the Northeast area (NEC) has to do with the Brightline Orlando Extension

 

[cirdan]

Pretty sure that was in the past. Unless your add station stops you have maxed out the potential. Rebuilding of station to reflect a brighter modern feel may help the surrounding areas, or not. New shine equipment may help the route, or not. Overall the NEC is built up, people are use to, the areas have been upgraded. Can a area benefit from urban renewal? Maybe the history of tearing things down is quite mixed.

The NEC still has potential in terms of extensions. Especially at its southern end into Virginia or even North Carolina. Now imagine if such an extension were to be a fully fledged extension, with electrification and comparable average speeds and levels of service. There would be plenty of opportunity there to max in on real estate.

But then Amtrak would have to own that real estate first.

And I guess private corporations have it easier sneakily buying up real estate than federal entities.

 

[me_little_me]

The NEC still has potential in terms of extensions. Especially at its southern end into Virginia or even North Carolina. Now imagine if such an extension were to be a fully fledged extension, with electrification and comparable average speeds and levels of service. There would be plenty of opportunity there to max in on real estate.

But then Amtrak would have to own that real estate first.

And I guess private corporations have it easier sneakily buying up real estate than federal entities.

There is no reason (other than politics) why Amtrak could not use eminent domain to take (after paying for) the existing station property at its present value then enhancing it by replacing the station/parking/adjacent purchased land with a new, more valuable building/parking deck/whatever that would make money for them.

 

[jis]

https://www.thenextmiami.com/bright...p-7uhHoTSVVROexrlEjIz7BezaCMWQjpuhHK5ec9Kgov0

 

[user 1215]

What if? How many trains has Brightline run through the pandemic? We've just had our clearest view yet of what happens if you turn over a public service to a private enterprise. As soon as business conditions go sideways - they shut operations down and cut their losses.

They started running trains through the pandemic. There is even a nice eBrochure on their cleaning plans. However, it was their failure in properly implementing required PTC which is the real reason why they are not operating. Covid is a convenient excuse.

Brightline is not a private enterprise that took over a public service. They were envisioned and created for the purpose of profit in their total business model and they are doubling and tripling down with their plans to extend to Tampa and Brightline West. They are taking the majority of the risk and will realize the majority of the reward - or loss.

It's completely different than the government taking over businesses that they no longer want.

 

[jis]

What if? How many trains has Brightline run through the pandemic? We've just had our clearest view yet of what happens if you turn over a public service to a private enterprise. As soon as business conditions go sideways - they shut operations down and cut their losses.

No public service was turned over to private enterprise in this case. There was no service and there would have been no service if Brightline had not decided to try to help Fortress increase value of their holdings around FECR. So no, we have not seen what you claim. Your narrative is inconsistent with the facts in some critical details.

 

[Tlcooper44]

There is no reason (other than politics) why Amtrak could not use eminent domain to take (after paying for) the existing station property at its present value then enhancing it by replacing the station/parking/adjacent purchased land with a new, more valuable building/parking deck/whatever that would make money for them.

Does Amtrak have the money to do something like this? Not sure the politics of this would uphold.
I would be fan of something like this otherwise. The model would sort of mimic Hong Kong's MTR, and maybe be a game changer for Amtrak. Doubt anything like it will ever happen.

 

[jis]

I think politically this would be an efficient way of getting Amtrak appropriations reduced substantially in short order as property owners rise in revolt.

 

[Brian_tampa]

https://www.thenextmiami.com/bright...p-7uhHoTSVVROexrlEjIz7BezaCMWQjpuhHK5ec9Kgov0

Just a reminder. These trains to be "rolling into Orlando" this summer are not the existing trainsets, but the new ones that are expected to begin arriving on the property in late summer. They will arrive via the new connection with the OUC railroad and travel to Orlando via CSX from Jacksonville.

 

[Qapla]

It sure would be neat to be able to ride from Jacksonville to Orlando in some of those cars

 

[west point]

Amtrak could probably initiate a charter of the Brightline trains from JAX to the Brightline maintenance facility. Will they do that ? Not a chance in heck. The train sets are already FRA approved as they did work Pal Beach - MIA..

 

[west point]

The corridor from WASH - Richmond is actually defined in certain Amtrak filings as part of the NEC. That may mean that VA may not have to pay much for additional service by Amtrak ? However that is just speculation and who knows for certain. Time will only tell as financial items may change even drastically.

 

[cirdan]

There is no reason (other than politics) why Amtrak could not use eminent domain to take (after paying for) the existing station property at its present value then enhancing it by replacing the station/parking/adjacent purchased land with a new, more valuable building/parking deck/whatever that would make money for them.

If you want to really cash in on the added value you are creating it's not just the station building and parking lot you need to be buying but lots of further properties in the broader area. All of which will massively increase in desirability.

 

[neroden]

We know that. The real estate potential along the NEC is enormously more lucrative.

Only if (a) you buy the land and (b) you get the zoning changed to allow taller buildings

 

[chrsjrcj]

We don’t know what shape the new trainsets are in when they’re delivered, which would prevent any charters before delivery. Some of the original trainsets were actually delivered without seats (IIRC the seat vendor had to replace all the seats before Brightline accepted the trains even though they were on site).

 

[jiml]

Just a reminder. These trains to be "rolling into Orlando" this summer are not the existing trainsets, but the new ones that are expected to begin arriving on the property in late summer. They will arrive via the new connection with the OUC railroad and travel to Orlando via CSX from Jacksonville.

I'm glad someone explained that. After reading the full linked article there was a bit of disconnect between the headline and the actual content which had quite a different timeline.

 

[joelkfla]

https://www.thenextmiami.com/bright...p-7uhHoTSVVROexrlEjIz7BezaCMWQjpuhHK5ec9Kgov0

OOPS! Apparently the projected start of service just slipped from FQ 2023 to mid 2023.

 

[Brian_tampa]

I'm glad someone explained that. After reading the full linked article there was a bit of disconnect between the headline and the actual content which had quite a different timeline.

If I recall from several years ago, Siemens promised to have the 1st of 5 new trainsets delivered Q3 2021 with the rest by end of 2022. I was also told by someone at Brightline that the same 5 colors (maybe this has changed, I haven't asked in several years) will be used. No additional colors.

 

[jis]

If I recall from several years ago, Siemens promised to have the 1st of 5 new trainsets delivered Q3 2021 with the rest by end of 2022. I was also told by someone at Brightline that the same 5 colors (maybe this has changed, I haven't asked in several years) will be used. No additional colors.

About colors, I was told they will eventually move away from colors, and go to a single livery because colors do not scale well - this according to Patrick Goddard. I don’t know whether he has since gotten overruled by his marketing guys.

 

[user 1215]

About colors, I was told they will eventually move away from colors, and go to a single livery because colors do not scale well - this according to Patrick Goddard. I don’t know whether he has since gotten overruled by his marketing guys.

Oh the confusion when they partner with Disney! Monorail Pink? No, Brightline Green?? Aaahhhhh!

Please stand clear of the doors. Por favor mantenganse allejadro de las puertas.

 

[jis]

It sure would be neat to be able to ride from Jacksonville to Orlando in some of those cars

That is more than ten years away at best.

 

[me_little_me]

That is more than ten years away at best.

Beats Amtrak. With them, it will be 15 years (if at all) before we have their infrastructure corridor plans completed. And we know the Class 1s will not want to improve the track for passenger service. In fact, they'll likely try and make it 40 years if they can.