Brightline Trains Florida discussion

[user 1215]

Yes, a short post with speech to text at a red light is not that hard.

 

[troo troo tcrane]

No. The Brightline Fort Lauderdale station is nowhere near the airport. That is why no one talks about people mover. A shuttle van maybe, but I don’t think even that is there at present.

Took a quick look and doesn't look like it is something I can use for now. Once they add an airport connection we will see.

 

[jis]

Yes, a short post with speech to text at a red light is not that hard.

Maybe it is better to spend a little time on looking things up before shooting things off at red lights then? [emoji51]

 

[chrsjrcj]

For June, Virgin carried 80,094 passengers and generated total revenue of approximately $1.6 million, including $400,000 in ancillary revenue. Average ticket fare for the month was $15.12.

https://www.thenextmiami.com/virgin...oca-raton-expected-to-be-operational-in-2020/

Also, stations at the PortMiami, Aventura, and Boca Raton announced for a 2020 opening (lol)

 

[jis]

I just keep wondering what their operating ratio is and hopefully it is trending in the correct direction. Just revenues don't tell the whole story.

 

[neroden]

All railroad operations are economies of scale businesses. They won't make any money, net, until they're significantly larger. Orlando might do it, but I'm not sure; Tampa should do it.

 

[jis]

Virgin Trains construction progress report:

https://www.bizjournals.com/orlando...&utm_source=twitter&__twitter_impression=true

 

[Anderson]

Going off of the June results, YTD ridership is 481,320. This is probably on course to end up right around one million for the year if nothing changes (bearing in mind the ridership bump from the Christmas specials, etc.).

Revenue is harder to peg, but seems to be in the ballpark of $11m (what I get when adding the monthly numbers up), probably give or take a quarter million dollars due to room for rounding to lean heavily one way or another. My guess is that puts them on course to land somewhere in the range of $21-24m for the year if the overall trend holds, depending on pricing strategy and promotions.

As an observation, Heat games seem to be responsible for 2-4% of Brightline's ridership in-season (given that they could pack post-game specials pretty full last season), so it will be interesting to see if that continues/grows at all next season.

 

[jis]

VTUSA looking for Bond sale for the L:as Vegas - California Project

https://finance-commerce.com/2019/0...-california-to-vegas-rail/?platform=hootsuite

Meanwhile, Brightline Phase II construction begins in earnest in Florida...

https://www.tcpalm.com/story/news/l...ightline-working-rail-fort-pierce/1874238001/

 

[neroden]

Looking at the status of construction, I'm actually surprised they think it'll take 36 months. On the new route, they've already finished utility relocation (which is the usual giant wildcard); on the old route, they're already sending out the rail trains to rehab the track; at Orlando, they've started the construction of the elevated platforms to stay above sea level. It may open sooner than 36 months; for once I think it's a conservative estimate.

As for Las Vegas-Victorville, Victorville is the problem. I'm surprised they're going forward with the bonds without figuring out how to finance the connection of Victorville to LA.

 

[jis]

Rails being positioned for the construction of the second track on the FECR ROW for Brightline....

 

[Anderson]

Looking at the status of construction, I'm actually surprised they think it'll take 36 months. On the new route, they've already finished utility relocation (which is the usual giant wildcard); on the old route, they're already sending out the rail trains to rehab the track; at Orlando, they've started the construction of the elevated platforms to stay above sea level. It may open sooner than 36 months; for once I think it's a conservative estimate.

As for Las Vegas-Victorville, Victorville is the problem. I'm surprised they're going forward with the bonds without figuring out how to finance the connection of Victorville to LA.

I think there's been a general view that Victorville is an acceptable endpoint. I do not share this view but even in its initial phases DesertXpress was looking at that pairing as being sufficient. I think a routing over to Lancaster/Palmdale would "cut it" (presuming they could get access on Metrolink tracks into Los Angeles pending CAHSR), as would something that would get them into San Bernadino (particularly if accompanied by improvements on the San Bernadino-Los Angeles run). But who knows?

 

[cirdan]

As for Las Vegas-Victorville, Victorville is the problem. I'm surprised they're going forward with the bonds without figuring out how to finance the connection of Victorville to LA.

My understanding was that DesertXpress don't / did't want to build all the way into Los Angeles because they are / were hoping to use the California High Speed line rather than duplicate it.

This sounds like an inherently sensible decison.

With the further development of the California project now somewhat in doubt, or at least shifted to a more distant completion date, I'm surprised this hasn't had a knock-on effect on DesertXpress .

 

[Ziv]

Wouldn't extending the route a bit further west to Palmdale make DesertXpress a lot more popular? It has been years since I spent any time in LA but it seems like Palmdale would give DX riders (and the DX train operators) a lot more transit options than Victorville alone. And Palmdale to LA Union Station is already in place, I think.
I think Palmdale to LA Union Station is rated for 110 mph if memory serves, but it doesn't seem like the Antelope Valley Line gets up to that speed for long.
Or is the cost of the Victorville to Palmdale section so high that it won't be worth it? Money seems to be the limiting factor in so many transit plans so it would be surprising if it wasn't the case here, as well. It is "only" 50 miles or so, but I imagine those would be pretty expensive miles of track to build if there aren't any already in place, or if they are rated for slower speeds. There are tracks of some sort from Sheep Creek Road to Palmdale paralleling Palmdale Road, but getting from Victorville to Sheep Creek might be problematic.
On edit: I was wrong about the 110 mph rating for the Metrolink portion of the route. I mis-read a CAHSR map. My apologies. I thought of removing it entirely, but figured explaining my error made more sense, since we discuss it below.

My understanding was that DesertXpress don't / did't want to build all the way into Los Angeles because they are / were hoping to use the California High Speed line rather than duplicate it.

This sounds like an inherently sensible decison.

With the further development of the California project now somewhat in doubt, or at least shifted to a more distant completion date, I'm surprised this hasn't had a knock-on effect on DesertXpress .

 

[jis]

I think Palmdale to LA Union Station is rated for 110 mph if memory serves, but it doesn't seem like the Antelope Valley Line gets up to that speed for long.

Really? I think this requires a citation to validate this claim - err ...thought.

 

[Ziv]

A CAHSR map link claimed that part of the rail network (Palmdale to LAUS) was Metrolink trackage rated at least partially at 110 mph. Or so it appeared. I am on my phone so will have to add the link on edit. Whether that portion is rated at 110 mph or 79, it still seems like DesertXpress would be better off if the Las Vegas to Victorville route had tracks they could use between Victorville and Palmdale, if they weren't prohibitively expensive. Which they probably would be.

Really? I think this requires a citation to validate this claim - err ...thought.

 

[jis]

A CAHSR map link claimed that part of the rail network (Palmdale to LAUS) was Metrolink trackage rated at least partially at 110 mph. Or so it appeared. I am on my phone so will have to add the link on edit. Whether that portion is rated at 110 mph or 79, it still seems like DesertXpress would be better off if the Las Vegas to Victorville route had tracks they could use between Victorville and Palmdale, if they weren't prohibitively expensive. Which they probably would be.

I agree about the desirability of using Metrolink by VTUSA from Palmdale to LAX. I just don;t believe Palmdale to LAX is signaled for anything faster than 79 mph, and if one has traveled on that trackage it will become obvious that very little of it will ever be 110mph capable even if upgraded and resignaled.

VTUSA has actually mentioned their intention to build tracks to connect to Palmdale at some point. Once their updated EIS becomes available, the picture will become clearer.

 

[Ziv]

You are correct about it being rated fo speeds up to 79 mph. I took a second look at the map and it clearly showed that 110 mph was a possible upgrade for the Metrolink tracks if the CAHSR nears completion. My error. Sorry for injecting incorrect info into the conversation!

I agree about the desirability of using Metrolink by VTUSA from Palmdale to LAX. I just don;t believe Palmdale to LAX is signaled for anything faster than 79 mph, and if one has traveled on that trackage it will become obvious that very little of it will ever be 110mph capable even if upgraded and resignaled.

VTUSA has actually mentioned their intention to build tracks to connect to Palmdale at some point. Once their updated EIS becomes available, the picture will become clearer.

 

[jis]

No worries, we all mistakenly post something from memory that turns out to be not quite so. I have done it many times. That is why these conversations here are so important.

 

[jis]

Construction of significant new intercity 125mph trackage begins.Target in service date is early 2022.

This is the trackage of VTUSA along SR 528 (Beachline) between Orlando International Airport and Cocoa.

http://www.fox35orlando.com/news/local-news/site-work-begins-on-sr-528-for-virgin-train-system

 

[frequentflyer]

When will the Victorville-LAS run be operational?

 

[jis]

When will the Victorville-LAS run be operational?

No one knows at present.

 

[West4th]

Construction is moving along

 

[jis]

https://www.forbes.com/sites/blakem...-train-travel-is-here-with-virgin-trains-usa/

 

[jis]

We have heard and read a lot about the Brightline/VTUSA Station at Orlando Airport. The station is closely integrated with the new upcoming Terminal C, the Phase I of which is scheduled to open in 2021, a few months before Brightline service gets to Orlando.

Here is a short video about MCO Terminal C Phase I (on Facebook):