Brightline Trains West!

[cirdan]

You can fly from Ontario, CA (ONT) to LAS for as little as $43 r/t on a weekday on Frontier with zero perks to $230 on the weekend on Frontier. Southwest also has fares on weekends from $253-$430. This is about par for most mainline carriers on the weekends out of LAX, too.

Meanwhile, in Florida, prices can fluctuate from $49 to $199 each way for Smart and $129 to $299 for Premium each way from Orlando to Miami. So, yeah, the article is plausible, and I expect to see much fluctuation.

I would consider it legitimate for Brightline West to charge higher fares per mile than Brightline Florida, not least because it is an all-new system and will offer considerably higher average speeds and thus greater time savings and competitivity to airlines.

 

[Tlcooper44]

Considering what people regularly pay to travel aboard the Acela, what BL allegedly will charge for what will probably be a nicer product seems pretty reasonable.

 

[Alice]

I think all of the flights (and passengers) between the LA basin and Las Vegas show there is demand. I don't think they limit the Brightline price because there is no need to get to the airport (especially bad if it requires driving and parking) or go through security.

 

[JamesWhitcombRiley]

I think all of the flights (and passengers) between the LA basin and Las Vegas show there is demand. I don't think they limit the Brightline price because there is no need to get to the airport (especially bad if it requires driving and parking) or go through security.

Brightline has security but it's fast. The newer stations are built to accommodate a separate passage for commuter rail passengers, if commuter rail ends up being non-security.

 

[jis]

Brightline has security but it's fast. The newer stations are built to accommodate a separate passage for commuter rail passengers, if commuter rail ends up being non-security.

At least in Florida, because the Commuter Rail equipment is low floor while Brightline is high floor, Commuter Rail and Brightline do not share platforms. So it is relatively easy to keep the passenger streams separate and away from each others platforms.

 

[homersimpson101]

From BL West:
https://www.brightlinewest.com/media/press-releases
January 16, 2024
LAS VEGAS – Brightline West is launching field investigation work in Nevada within the proposed rail corridor within Interstate 15 (I-15) right-of-way. The field work will advance final stages of design in preparation for a groundbreaking. Brightline West will connect Las Vegas and Southern California with America’s first true high speed rail system.

How exactly is Brightline West "America's first true high speed rail system"? Isn't the Acela in the North East Corridor considered a high speed rail system?

 

[Tlcooper44]

How exactly is Brightline West "America's first true high speed rail system"? Isn't the Acela in the North East Corridor considered a high speed rail system?

By international standards no.

The problem is, what constitutes true HSR is fickle, especially in America. I think it’s widely agreed upon that Acela is not true HSR but HrSR. The Acela only reaches 150 for short stretches, and the average speed is quite low.

Given that LA to Vegas will reach 186mph (afaik) for large stretches of track, it without a doubt will be a true HSR system - the first in the nation.

From what I understand, for new track and new ROW, 186-220 is what the speed has to be to be considered HSR. For legacy upgrades, I believe there is a number, but it escapes me.

I find these definition to most of the time, be a red herring to what matters most: fast, frequent, reliable trains.

 

[Tlcooper44]

Found some reading from the International Union of Railways:

https://www.uic.org/com/enews/nr/59...nition-of-high-speed-rail?page=thickbox_enews

If someone finds something better, I’d love to see

 

[cirdan]

At the end of the day a definition is just that. You can always argue over the finer points of definitions.

What matters is that a system is delivered that is relevant to transportation needs and attracts a worthwhile market share.

 

[jis]

Found some reading from the International Union of Railways:

https://www.uic.org/com/enews/nr/59...nition-of-high-speed-rail?page=thickbox_enews

If someone finds something better, I’d love to see

Surprisingly the Wikipedia page on High Speed Rail has more concrete information and less puffery than the UIC page :

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-speed_rail

 

[MARC Rider]

Surprisingly the Wikipedia page on High Speed Rail has more concrete information and less puffery than the UIC page :

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-speed_rail

The article states that renovated lines that run 200 km/hr (125 mph) are considered "high speed rail." Thus, the NEC, including the Northeast Regional, is "high speed rail." No other high speed rail in North America. Brightline doesn't make it. because the 125 mph running is in newly constructed tracks, and the criteria for newly constructed tracks is 155 mph.

 

[Caesar La Rock]

Well it looks like this is for real, as it was posted on Siemens' newsroom.

 

[joelkfla]

Siemens' page for the HSR train:

The American Pioneer 220: High Speed Rail for the U.S.

 

[Train Horn Music]

Well it looks like this is for real, as it was posted on Siemens' newsroom.

Unfortunately, Siemens removed the press release. My guess is that a press person accidentally hit publish too early. We still don’t know if BLW will go with Alstom or Siemens.

 

[Metra Electric Rider]

Why did I think that BLW was going to be diesel? Glad it's not, but where did I get confused?

 

[joelkfla]

Why did I think that BLW was going to be diesel? Glad it's not, but where did I get confused?

Confusion with Texas Central or Brightline FL, perhaps?

 

[jis]

Confusion with Texas Central or Brightline FL, perhaps?

Most likely Brightline Florida. Texas Central was going to be electric in that incarnation.

 

[Anderson]

Most likely Brightline Florida. Texas Central was going to be electric in that incarnation.

I'm trying to remember if there was a diesel version of Brightline West proposed (the project has had enough iterations...). I don't think so, but the idea feels oddly familiar.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

Why did I think that BLW was going to be diesel? Glad it's not, but where did I get confused?

&​

I'm trying to remember if there was a diesel version of Brightline West proposed (the project has had enough iterations...). I don't think so, but the idea feels oddly familiar.

If you go back to the early days of LVRE d/b/a "X Train" I believe it was going to be one diesel powered consist of a dozen refurbished gallery cars running two trains per week over mostly UP and some BNSF trackage. If it had any chance of making it they needed to start small and build up, but UP's demand for 70 million up front before the first passenger train could run nuked their finances.

 

[cirdan]

I'm trying to remember if there was a diesel version of Brightline West proposed (the project has had enough iterations...). I don't think so, but the idea feels oddly familiar.

Some of the artists's renderings produced over the years did appear to show diesel trains. But I guess this was more lack of knowledge of the artist than a question of policy.

 

[jis]

I'm trying to remember if there was a diesel version of Brightline West proposed (the project has had enough iterations...). I don't think so, but the idea feels oddly familiar.

Until they specifically said it will be electric, the general wisdom in railfandom, such as it is, was that it will be something like Brightline Florida. Repeatedly shouting in the wind that they cannot meet their stated speed goals with diesel did not seem to change any opinions for a while.

 

[cirdan]

Until they specifically said it will be electric, the general wisdom in railfandom, such as it is, was that it will be something like Brightline Florida. Repeatedly shouting in the wind that they cannot meet their stated speed goals with diesel did not seem to change any opinions for a while.

Although the talk of piggybacking off CAHSR would have suggested a strong nudge towards electrification. Not a certainty, obviously, but a likely indicator.

 

[jis]

Although the talk of piggybacking off CAHSR would have suggested a strong nudge towards electrification. Not a certainty, obviously, but a likely indicator.

The piggybacking came a little later. Originally it was just a Las Vegas to Victorville thing and people were scratching their heads about what happens after Victorville.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

This old and outdated link might help jog some people's memories.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Las_Vegas_Railway_Express

 

[west point]

Why not buy Airo type train sets? Have them with 200 MPH trucks and that speed gearing of traction motors. Run diesel on the say 1 - 1/4 % grades and use CAT for steeper grades. With track rights, Amtrak operating crews, or Metrolink crews operating into LAX Union station solves that access marketing desire. Switch to CA HSR trackage if that ever gets completed.