crescent-zephyr
Engineer
- Joined
- Oct 21, 2015
- Messages
- 4,796
On what right of way and to where? Little confused on this.The cheaper way would have been the 90s plan to run at 110mph down the coast.
On what right of way and to where? Little confused on this.The cheaper way would have been the 90s plan to run at 110mph down the coast.
SP coast line which may have gotten bought by the state, SF/Oakland to LA and eventually to SD.On what right of way and to where? Little confused on this.
YesSo the existing Coast Starlight route?
Would SP have been willing to sell for a reasonable and fair price?SP coast line which may have gotten bought by the state, SF/Oakland to LA and eventually to SD.
Lots of realignment work along with likely ITCS would have been used.
Well that's at about 11 hours for the Starlight with an average speed around 40 mph.
SP had offered it up, thats how LA metro and VCTC bought their segmentsWould SP have been willing to sell for a reasonable and fair price?
|Well that's at about 11 hours for the Starlight with an average speed around 40 mph.
Could they actually get the average speed on that route up to 80?
Highly unlikely. The experience of dealing with SP then UP was a significant factor in choosing that the HSR parallel the BNSF where practical, despite the ex SP route being in general straighter and better serving the city centers.Would SP have been willing to sell for a reasonable and fair price?
Just sticking this in for reference.The High Speed Rail Alliance published another A-grade video, this one covering CAHSR, called The Need for a National Railway Program. Despite the title, the heart of it is about CAHSR, from the vantage of the Transit Costs Project at NYU. The interview is with Eric Goldwyn, who points out two examples of problems with how we plan and pay for passenger rail in the U.S.
- The planning and environmental report became a Christmas tree for unrelated infrastructure. The goal of the planners was to get approvals, not keep costs down, he says. The example is a grade-separation bridge not only for CASHR, but also for the nearby freight railroad. A worthy cause, but who pays is the problem. We have a lot of infrastructure that needs work!
- The environmental planning cultural mandate caused several revisions moving CAHSR further and further away from a park and monument. But the freight railroad was always closer to the site. Again, getting the approval was the goal, not costs or engineering or common sense.
If I recall correctly, that was a section where the HSR would have run parallel to an existing freight railroad for considerable length. Placing the HSR on an elevated alignment while leaving the freight at ground level would have created an insurmountable barrier, as any future attempts to eliminate road crossings by building bridges over the tracks would have been frustrated by the elevated HSR alignment being in the way. The only logical way out would have been an elevated alignment for the freight as well, and that would have been very costly indeed.His first example, the bridge over the HSR and paralleling railroad: For the one I am thinking of, that was the only way practical. Originally through Fresno the concept was to go elevated. Some in the city liked the idea as giving a futuristic appearance, but those that considered it a blight in appearance won out so that it is to be at grade or depressed throughout at considerably higher cost. (In an urban area, elevated is usually both lower cost and less disruptive as all you have is column footings at intervals instead of having to modify every road crossing and utility line crossing, in addition to major earthmoving.
That is not the area I was talking about. There is much of the length that is not closely parallel to a railroad. For the close parallel to a railroad yes, match the railroad in profile and grade separate both. There was not as much of this as originally envisioned. One of these close parallel to a railroad sections is between the railroad and Highway 99 and as part of this a few miles of Highway 99 are getting rebuilt as part of the HSR budget.If I recall correctly, that was a section where the HSR would have run parallel to an existing freight railroad for considerable length. Placing the HSR on an elevated alignment while leaving the freight at ground level would have created an insurmountable barrier, as any future attempts to eliminate road crossings by building bridges over the tracks would have been frustrated by the elevated HSR alignment being in the way. The only logical way out would have been an elevated alignment for the freight as well, and that would have been very costly indeed.
SP had offered it up to the state and we know that LA metro bought right of way for around a million a mile across LA including key mainline segments like Chatsworth to Burbank and Palmdale to downtown LAHighly unlikely. The experience of dealing with SP then UP was a significant factor in choosing that the HSR parallel the BNSF where practical, despite the ex SP route being in general straighter and better serving the city centers.
Yeah. One thing we forget now is that up through the 1990s, as the mergers happened a number of the Class Is were willing to dump what they considered to be secondary or redundant lines. Don't forget that prior to the UP merger, the company in question was actually DRGW, not SP - SP lost out in that merger.SP had offered it up to the state and we know that LA metro bought right of way for around a million a mile across LA including key mainline segments like Chatsworth to Burbank and Palmdale to downtown LA
Which SP ROW south of LA were they talking about? The one for the future Metro southeast gateway line? Or the little local line along the 5?SP had offered it up to the state and we know that LA metro bought right of way for around a million a mile across LA including key mainline segments like Chatsworth to Burbank and Palmdale to downtown LA
Interestingly, the SP granted LA Metro a one-year option to buy the whole 424-mile line from Burbank to San Jose in 1992, with the price apparently to have been set by some sort of appraisal process. (https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1992-10-02-mn-343-story.html) No idea what the price actually would have been, but it probably would have been worth it in the long run, to have public control over the Moorpark to Goleta and San Jose to Gilroy segments at the very least. But not surprising that paying nine figures and taking over maintenance obligations for the whole line seemed like an iffy proposition in 1992, given the state of California passenger rail at the time and the recognition that the Central Valley was the better route for high-speed rail.SP had offered it up to the state and we know that LA metro bought right of way for around a million a mile across LA including key mainline segments like Chatsworth to Burbank and Palmdale to downtown LA
We had 2 more 1B bonds in the works. 116 had passed in 1990 while 156 and 181 in 1992 and 1994 would fail.Interestingly, the SP granted LA Metro a one-year option to buy the whole 424-mile line from Burbank to San Jose in 1992, with the price apparently to have been set by some sort of appraisal process. (https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1992-10-02-mn-343-story.html) No idea what the price actually would have been, but it probably would have been worth it in the long run, to have public control over the Moorpark to Goleta and San Jose to Gilroy segments at the very least. But not surprising that paying nine figures and taking over maintenance obligations for the whole line seemed like an iffy proposition in 1992, given the state of California passenger rail at the time and the recognition that the Central Valley was the better route for high-speed rail.
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