California may break Amtrak pact

[Superliner Diner]

From Stockton, CA Record, 3/29/03:

State to study Amtrak pactState officials are only days away from hiring a Washington, D.C.-based company to study whether California should end its 27-year-old partnership with Amtrak.

The entire story is here.

 

[Allen Dee]

IMHO, this action should be taken only as an alternative should Amtrak shut down. For the state of California to halt all rail and connecting bus service would be a disaster. It should also be noted that Amtrak also operates the vast majority of commuter rail services within the state (Cal Train, Metrolink, Coaster).

 

[tp49]

However, it would be easier to find another outfit to run the commuter lines than it would to operate amtrak California. When I first heard of this I thought this was to be a contingency plan in case Amtrak went under, maybe this isn't the case anymore, and begs the question if the state did not take it over outright what outside company would be able to handle the job.

 

[jccollins]

California would be the losers to break the pact. The Amtrak California intercity and Amtrak long distance train networks fir together so nicely and are convenient for so many people that it would be a blow to "both" agencies to cut the seamless ticketing, baggage services provided by Amtrak employees, etc., etc., etc. This report should be interesting to read - there is no way the benefits of cutting the connection could outweigh the costs - it would destroy the industry.

 

[sutton8596]

I don't know the situation very well, but can someone tell me if this means the Coast Starlight would stop running...or simply not be run by Amtrak anymore?

Thanks,

Scott

 

[AlanB]

I don't know the situation very well, but can someone tell me if this means the Coast Starlight would stop running...or simply not be run by Amtrak anymore?Thanks,

Scott

This would have no impact on the Coast Starlight.

The study will only be looking at trains that run within the borders of California. Any trains that run to other states are not included.

 

[Steve Relei]

I always thought that Amtrak and the State of California were doing so well together! They have been working together for all these years. Despite Amtrak "woes" elsewhere, train service in California has improved considerably and continues to do so. Wasn't there another "Capitol" train that just started service? I keep hoping for at least one through train on the San Jaoquin line (maybe an overight train) to Los Angeles over Tehachapi Loop. Perhaps an overnight train from the Bay Area (Oakland) to Los Angeles could be attempted again.

As to charges that Amtrak is inefficient, Amtrak does as good of a job as it can most of the time and with what resources it has (or doesn't have). I wish these same people who level these charges can make suggestions on how Amtrak can be improved and made more efficient--again, with the resources available.

 

[jccollins]

Steve:

Your wish of a train over the Tehachapi Loop might actually come true - some day. Have you seen the following article?

http://www.bakersfield.com/top/v-print/sto...p-2457947c.html

I don't really think this would be a wise use of resources to extend a train along this congested route, but...

It sure would be nice if a new 79-120mph route could be cut through the Grapevine. It wouldn't cost as much to construct as previously thought, either. See page one of:

http://www.calrailnews.com/602crn.htm

 

[Steve Relei]

If there is a need for the train, there are passengers who will use it, a direct route to L.A. on one train--all these are reasons to study the possibility and productivity of such a service. I read the article. Union Pacific is the main holdout here--of course, the UP doesn't seem to be too excited about any of the Amtrak trains on its route (it's like the SP all over again), and yet, if there is a market...

 

[Allen Dee]

Steve:
Your wish of a train over the Tehachapi Loop might actually come true - some day. Have you seen the following article?

http://www.bakersfield.com/top/v-print/sto...p-2457947c.html

I don't really think this would be a wise use of resources to extend a train along this congested route, but...

It sure would be nice if a new 79-120mph route could be cut through the Grapevine. It wouldn't cost as much to construct as previously thought, either. See page one of:

http://www.calrailnews.com/602crn.htm

The LA-Bakersfield over the ridge route should definitely be pursued.

I was at LAUS a few weeks ago, and the 3 PM Bakersfield bus departed in 6 sections. 6 buses means a quick train ride will work. If there were through train service between northern/central California and southern California, the ridership on the San Joaquins and Pacific Surfliners would skyrocket.

I would rather see this service operated by Amtrak California as opposed to an outfit like Herzog, but any train service would be much better than buses.

Now, let's get the LA-Las Vegas trains rolling!!

 

[jccollins]

The LA-Bakersfield over the ridge route should definitely be pursued.
I was at LAUS a few weeks ago, and the 3 PM Bakersfield bus departed in 6 sections. 6 buses means a quick train ride will work. If there were through train service between northern/central California and southern California, the ridership on the San Joaquins and Pacific Surfliners would skyrocket.

I would rather see this service operated by Amtrak California as opposed to an outfit like Herzog, but any train service would be much better than buses.

Now, let's get the LA-Las Vegas trains rolling!!

Yes, I agree that a quick train connection between Bakersfield and Los Angeles Union Station would DEFINITELY and RAPIDLY lead to doubling and tripling of passenger counts on the San Joaquin and Pacific Surfliner routes. However, it needs to be pursued as a new "high-speed" (at least 60-79mph standard) route where the trains could make the extension of the run in 3 hours or less. Any longer than three hours from Bakersfield to Los Angeles would begin to lose passengers, and at a steep rate for each additional minute. The buses can make Bakersfield to Los Angeles in 2 hours, 20 minutes. 3 hours or less should be adequate for the train.

The problem running a train via the Tehachapi Loop is that it would take an estimated 7 HOURS to travel from Bakersfield to Los Angeles (5 actual running hours + an additional 2 figured in for heavy congestion on the route, see the article I referenced above). This would NOT be popular with "regular" or business passengers who are mainly interested in getting to their destination fast and cheap. The Tehachapi Loop route would most likely only appeal to people with a lot of extra time and who really like trains. It just seems very unreasonable to add five unnecessary hours onto the trip from Bakersfield to Los Angeles when it is completely unnecessary.

I am with you all the way with the LA - Las Vegas train service, Allen. All Amtrak California Corridor Station Hosts (which I am one of - there are about 40 of us) will be meeting with Liz O' Donoghue, Amtrak's Director of planning-states on Saturday, April 12. She will be the guest speaker at our annual station host meeting. I will bring up the LA - Las Vegas train service and let you know if I can find out anything.

B)

 

[Allen Dee]

I am with you all the way with the LA - Las Vegas train service, Allen. All Amtrak California Corridor Station Hosts (which I am one of - there are about 40 of us) will be meeting with Liz O' Donoghue, Amtrak's Director of planning-states on Saturday, April 12. She will be the guest speaker at our annual station host meeting. I will bring up the LA - Las Vegas train service and let you know if I can find out anything.

JC,

Can you also ask Liz if there is any chance of the Coast Daylight starting up any time soon. I am referring to trains 769 and 796. At the present time, these trains make connections in Santa Barbara with dedicated Amtrak Thruway buses 4769 and 4796, which are operated by American Star.

Obviously, this won't happen until Caltrain resumes their weekend service and the Baby Bullets are up and running.

 

[Steve Relei]

As far as the number of hours it would take for trains to get from Bakerfield to L.A. via Tehachapi Loop and the more hours it takes, the fewer passengers, etc. If it were an overnight train, the number of hours would become less relevant, for decent arrival times (6:00 or 7:00 am arrivals in either city--as opposed to middle of the night), with a sleeper or two, could be marketable.

 

[jccollins]

I am with you all the way with the LA - Las Vegas train service, Allen.  All Amtrak California Corridor Station Hosts (which I am one of - there are about 40 of us) will be meeting with Liz O' Donoghue, Amtrak's Director of planning-states on Saturday, April 12.  She will be the guest speaker at our annual station host meeting.  I will bring up the LA - Las Vegas train service and let you know if I can find out anything.

JC,

Can you also ask Liz if there is any chance of the Coast Daylight starting up any time soon. I am referring to trains 769 and 796. At the present time, these trains make connections in Santa Barbara with dedicated Amtrak Thruway buses 4769 and 4796, which are operated by American Star.

Obviously, this won't happen until Caltrain resumes their weekend service and the Baby Bullets are up and running.

Not for quite a while... she is totally opposed to any new expansion of services until the national system is stabilized. It is really up to Amtrak California (Caltrans) as to when the service starts, though, but there is no operating funds in any budgets to start it any time soon.