Canadian peak vs off-peak pricing and Corridor connections...

[thully]

I’ve had thoughts of taking the Canadian at some point - perhaps in a loop trip with the Empire Builder with some time in both Seattle and Vancouver, as I haven’t taken the EB either and I’ve wanted to see both cities. Starting/ending in Michigan is almost ideal for doing such a loop (on the Cascades route between SEA-VAC being perhaps the only better option), as I can start on the Wolverine and end across the border in Windsor on a VIA Corridor route. Though given what I’ve heard about the route, getting off in Winnipeg and flying back might be preferable both time and money wise...

With that said, I had a few questions:

1) I’ve heard that it’s always way cheaper to ride the Canadian in off-season (particularly winter). However, in comparing prices for Vancouver-Toronto bookings, the price for a discounted rate lower berth is only $250 or so more in July as compared to January. That doesn’t seem near as much of a difference as I would expect, and it would seem worth it to pay the extra and go when it’s warm outside so I can better enjoy my time in Seattle/Vancouver. Did their fare buckets change, or am I missing something? I did see the Express Deals, though those seem like a constant percentage off the regular rates... Obviously there are the restrictions on Park Car use for non-Prestige passengers on-season, but I’m not sure that and $250 is worth doing a winter trip vs summer...

2) How does VIA deal with connections to corridor trains? I’ve heard the Canadian’s OTP is abysmal, and 10 hour delays are almost expected. However, VIA does offer connections to corridor trains if you specify a corridor station as your destination. Do they offer any accommodations for missing such connections (ie put you up in a hotel in Toronto if you miss the last train of the day), or are you on your own? If I took the complete route, I’d connect to the Windsor corridor train...

 

[NS VIA Fan]

Here’s some deals just issued this morning…but you have to keep checking back as they are continuously updated:

https://www.viarail.ca/en/deals?utm_campaign=discounttuesday&utm_medium=email&utm_source=all&utm_term=en&utm_content=ltw&cmd_id=536853

 

[cpotisch]

Here’s some deals just issued this morning…but you have to keep checking back as they are continuously updated:

https://www.viarail.ca/en/deals?utm_campaign=discounttuesday&utm_medium=email&utm_source=all&utm_term=en&utm_content=ltw&cmd_id=536853

Doesn’t look like those work for Sleeper Plus.

 

[thully]

I see Sleeper Plus deals at that site.  I had looked at that page, and even comparing Express Deals, a lower berth Vancouver-Toronto only costs $200 or so more on-peak compared to off-peak (comparing March to May, as they don't have any later offerings yet). So I'm still a bit perplexed by those who say the Canadian costs much less off-peak. Did the difference used to be more? I probably won't travel until a ways out (probably not even this year, though if I got a really good deal I could change my planned CZ trip) - just wanted to get an idea of what was going on with peak vs off-peak fares. Have to make time for that 4 day trip plus whatever I want to do in Vancouver (and possibly Seattle) - if I do it may have to do the EB separately.

The OTP is another concern - a bit leery of getting off at a midpoint like Winnipeg and flying there/home for fear that the train will be so late to mess up flight plans even with a 1 day buffer (and once you add more than that you aren't really saving any time or money doing that). Going all the way to Toronto/Vancouver would eliminate the flight issue,, though that's a loooong trip.... I'm not sure how they would handle missed connections to VIA Corridor trains if I booked Vancouver-Toronto-Windsor, though perhaps that's a reason to favor the other direction (would have to overnight in Toronto on the way there, but the 8am Vancouver arrival time on the new schedule offers plenty of padding for a late arrival, and I'd stay several days in Vancouver anyway).

 

[Seaboard92]

As someone who has seen what's done. They put missed connection pax in a local hotel usually the Royal York and then onto the next available corridor train.

 

[NS VIA Fan]

Doesn’t look like those work for Sleeper Plus.

Lots of Sleeper Plus deals there. You just have to go thru the different city pairs and keep checking back as they are constantly changing

For Example Toronto to Vancouver on May 5: Cabin for 1 $1558 vs regular $2428.

 

[cpotisch]

Lots of Sleeper Plus deals there. You just have to go thru the different city pairs and keep checking back as they are constantly changing

For Example Toronto to Vancouver on May 5: Cabin for 1 $1558 vs regular $2428.

When I clicked on that link, selected the segment, and then changed it from coach to Sleeper Plus, that $1,558 was so high that I just figured it wasn’t even discounted. This was considering the fact that the standard Sleeper Plus class deals available 24/7 offer a Cabin for 1 from Toronto to Vancouver for $1,133.

 

[Bob Dylan]

That is a great price Coby! Too bad you're in school and can't ride then!!

I still believe the best deal is to ride in the Winter in a Lower Berth ( Section). I've done In Season and Off, and much prefer the shorter consists,smaller crowds and the Winter scenery.

 

[crescent-zephyr]

the smaller consist and crowds I agree with. The winter scenery? It got old for me. In the USA winter scenery is one thing (I'm looking at it right now!). But up in Canada in the remote areas the Canadian travels through, everything was iced and snowed over to the point it was all just white! The rockies were lovely in the snow of course but that's only 1 day of a 4 day trip. I'd rather travel when the Prairies and forests were a bit more interesting to look at. 

 

[Bob Dylan]

Gotcha! That's why it's called The Great White North! ^_^ "

Since the Train is warm, and I seldom see Snow and Frozen Water  where I now live, I like seeing it from a Dome or the Park Car Lounge!

 

[riderails]

 "I can start on the Wolverine and end across the border in Windsor on a VIA Corridor route."

Via Corridors are impressive but---If it were only that simple.  I am virtually on The Wolverine tracks, and, unfortunately, getting to Windsor seems to very quite trying.   Tunnel bus, taxi, or the like is needed to get to Windsor, unless one wants to drive and park or have someone transport them.  I've researched and researched the matter and have not been willing to go by any of the possibilities just mentioned.  I've either flown to Toronto or gone by way of CHI and overnight on Lake Shore Limited with layover in scenic Depew,  NY (Buffalo).   Be interested to know of what you end up doing.  I am currently all scheduled for 9:30 AM (I hope) departure of Train 1 May '19 Toronto departure: Flight to TOR with overnight in hotel close to Union Station.  

 

[thully]

To be clear, I wasn’t suggesting a connection between the Wolverine and a VIA Corridor train - the idea was a Wolverine-Empire Builder-Cascades-Canadian-VIA Corridor loop. Getting to/from Windsor is definitely a pain - I would either have someone take me there or do some combination of Tunnel bus/Uber (basically what you suggested).  I wish they could get some cross-border Chicago-Detroit-Toronto trains going (or even just Detroit/Toronto). One alternative I had pondered would be to take Greyhound from Michigan to Toronto - they run a few trips per day on a Chicago-Detroit-Toronto route with stops at most of the Wolverine stations. 

In any case, I’m a bit unsure I’m going to be doing this any time soon - its something that’s been in the back of my mind for a while, but 4 days straight on the train is a lot and with the regular 10+ hour delays I’m seeing it sounds like it could be even more than that. Getting on/off at a midpoint and flying partway is an option, but then with the chronic delays it seems you run the chance of having to board/alight at 4am unexpectedly (and have to add a 1-2 night stay in the midpoint city between the flight/train). 

 

[riderails]

Noticed you are in AA.  I'm in Lodi Twp/Saline.  So, it is convenient to get back-and-forth between CHI, right?   I pretty much took the route you mentioned in the first line above but in the opposite direction. This entailed the CHi-to-TOR route with an overnight in TOR.  This was about 1.5 yr. ago and The Canadian was, surprisingly, a mere 8-hr. late into VAN.  After two nights in VAN, to SEA and Empire Builder ....    I had done three nights on the TX Eagle and found no problems.  The four nights on Canadian went fine as well.  (But we know this might not hold for everyone.)    I have reservations for a May trip that is similar (same direction) with a flight to TOR.   Given the amount of train travel you have under your belt, I'd bet you would not find the VAN-TOR (either direction) route to be less than enjoyable.   Oh, and the only problem I find with The Canadian's storied lateness is with hotel reservations in VAN.  For example, in May the rates are a bit steep so I went the "no cancellation" route for two nights.  This means if the arrival to VAN is late enough, I'll have lost one night's payment.  But I know this in advance.  

And, when I made reservations for Amtrak Cascades-VAN-CHI-AA,  I was unable to include the former as one leg of one trip such that if I missed Builder in Seattle due to Cascade's problem, Amtrak would  "cover" me.  The same thing held last time.  The "programmed" route requires a bus departing VAN around 5:30 AM instead of Cascades departing at 6:30 and still getting to SEA before noon.  This held for both on-line and agent ticketing attempts.  Nonetheless, I avoided the 5:30 AM bus.   

 

[thully]

Noticed you are in AA.  I'm in Lodi Twp/Saline.  So, it is convenient to get back-and-forth between CHI, right?   I pretty much took the route you mentioned in the first line above but in the opposite direction. This entailed the CHi-to-TOR route with an overnight in TOR.  This was about 1.5 yr. ago and The Canadian was, surprisingly, a mere 8-hr. late into VAN.  After two nights in VAN, to SEA and Empire Builder ....    I had done three nights on the TX Eagle and found no problems.  The four nights on Canadian went fine as well.  (But we know this might not hold for everyone.)    I have reservations for a May trip that is similar (same direction) with a flight to TOR.   Given the amount of train travel you have under your belt, I'd bet you would not find the VAN-TOR (either direction) route to be less than enjoyable.   Oh, and the only problem I find with The Canadian's storied lateness is with hotel reservations in VAN.  For example, in May the rates are a bit steep so I went the "no cancellation" route for two nights.  This means if the arrival to VAN is late enough, I'll have lost one night's payment.  But I know this in advance.  

And, when I made reservations for Amtrak Cascades-VAN-CHI-AA,  I was unable to include the former as one leg of one trip such that if I missed Builder in Seattle due to Cascade's problem, Amtrak would  "cover" me.  The same thing held last time.  The "programmed" route requires a bus departing VAN around 5:30 AM instead of Cascades departing at 6:30 and still getting to SEA before noon.  This held for both on-line and agent ticketing attempts.  Nonetheless, I avoided the 5:30 AM bus.   

I have taken the Wolverine to/from CHI quite a bit, and also other short day trips in the opposite direction (I recently posted a trip report about a ARB-DET-ARB daytrip I took to see a 3pm Red Wings game). With that said, doing the Wolverine to CHI and then the Maple Leaf to Depew would add an extra day (and a long layover in Depew) to the trip, and the overnight trip would either entail getting a roomette (expensive for a segment like that) or roughing a night in coach. Of course, you could also take the Toledo thruway bus to save some time, but then you're waiting 10pm-3am in TOL and still have to deal with an overnight trip.  I'd take Greyhound or fly over doing either of those (or do VIA Corridor if I could work out getting to Windsor), even if it means the trip isn't all-rail.

With respect to trip length, I'm just a little concerned about 4 days straight being a bit much, particularly since delays could push it closer to 5 days. I took the CS+CZ a couple years ago (3 nights straight), and by the last day  I was ready to get off the train. I did do the first night on the CS in coach, though. I did also do the Texas Eagle LAX-CHI all in sleeper, though, and it was OK. Had thought of stopovers - Jasper's the only one that seemed potentially interesting, and I'm not sure what one could do there for a day or two without a car (it's also on the west end of the trip). I do want to do it sometime in the next couple years, though, and was curious about riding in the peak vs off-peak. Doing it this spring/summer would probably require cancelling my CZ trip to Glenwood Springs unless I just took the train and flew back after a couple days, which makes the weather advantage of peak season moot.

 

[cpotisch]

That is a great price Coby! Too bad you're in school and can't ride then!!

I still believe the best deal is to ride in the Winter in a Lower Berth ( Section). I've done In Season and Off, and much prefer the shorter consists,smaller crowds and the Winter scenery.

If I ever take the Canadian, it would likely be a once in a lifetime trip, so do you really think that a Cabin for 1 wouldn't be worth the extra $300 or so? In addition the reduced privacy, I think the lack of outlets in the sections would be an issue...

 

[thully]

I was wondering the same thing, though I figure if you bring a big power bank and charge it while in the dome cars it may not be a big deal. Also, I was a bit concerned that it would be hard to access the toilet while the bed was down in the cabin.

 

[Montreal Ltd]

When I clicked on that link, selected the segment, and then changed it from coach to Sleeper Plus, that $1,558 was so high that I just figured it wasn’t even discounted. This was considering the fact that the standard Sleeper Plus class deals available 24/7 offer a Cabin for 1 from Toronto to Vancouver for $1,133.

The $1133 is the deal I got! Booked it in November for a trip this month.

 

[NS VIA Fan]

Even at $1558. for four days on the Canadian (and maybe even longer!) with all meals included (and excellent meals too!) along with a Dome Car….. and I assume you’re from the US so take off about 25% (say $400) with the exchange rate……I’d say a you’d be getting very good deal!

 

 

[cpotisch]

Even at $1558. for four days on the Canadian (and maybe even longer!) with all meals included (and excellent meals too!) along with a Dome Car….. and I assume you’re from the US so take off about 25% (say $400) with the exchange rate……I’d say a you’d be getting very good deal!

 

Two people in a Cabin for 2 on the Canadian costs $1,882.26 USD for the four night ride between Toronto and Vancouver. Meanwhile on Amtrak, two people going from NYP to LAX in a Roomette on the LSL or Cardinal, and then Texas Eagle (or vice versa) is also four nights, but costs $831. Is the Canadian really more than twice as good as Amtrak?

 

[Bob Dylan]

Not twice as good, but a much more pleasant expierence!( from someone who has ridden these Trains many times!)

Knowing the difference between Price and Value is a Life Skill worth having!

 

[Urban Sky]

Two people in a Cabin for 2 on the Canadian costs $1,882.26 USD for the four night ride between Toronto and Vancouver. Meanwhile on Amtrak, two people going from NYP to LAX in a Roomette on the LSL or Cardinal, and then Texas Eagle (or vice versa) is also four nights, but costs $831. Is the Canadian really more than twice as good as Amtrak?

I’m obviously not going to comment on VIA’s pricing, but as someone who has been offered $1825, $1474 and $947 as the respective ticket prices of a Superliner Bedroom with 2 adults on the Empire Builder (Chicago-Seattle, i.e. 2 nights) for 3 consecutive departures (April 16/17/18, 2019 - we were lucky enough that we could make the 18th work with our vacation plans), I take any single amount quoted for Amtrak bedroom prices with more than just a grain of salt...

 

[cpotisch]

I take any single amount quoted for Amtrak bedroom prices with more than just a grain of salt...

That's why I'm specifically comparing it to low bucket Roomette fares on those trains.

 

[Urban Sky]

That's why I'm specifically referring to the low bucket Roomette fares.

Fair enough, I'm not that familiar with Amtrak's pricing and I didn't notice similar fluctuations for Roomettes. As for accommodations, I'm not sure about how Amtrak accommodations compare to the Canadian's Cabin for 2, but having booked 2 Viewliner Roomettes on the Lake Shore Limited (SDY-CHI, was still only half the price of one Viewliner Bedroom), one Superliner bedroom on the Empire Builder (CHI-SEA) and a Cabin for 2 on the Canadian (VCVR-TRTO), I should soon be able to make a more informed comparison (and even from a family perspective - we will be travelling with a by-then four month old)...

 

[cpotisch]

Fair enough, I'm not that familiar with Amtrak's pricing and I didn't notice similar fluctuations for Roomettes.

For any Amtrak sleeper itinerary (that is the accommodation, route, and stations you are traveling between), there are five possible prices/buckets. Depending on the time until departure and remaining availability of that accommodation, fares on any particular date (or train number, if there are multiple of the same route in a day) will go to one of those buckets.

As for accommodations, I'm not sure about how Amtrak accommodations compare to the Canadian's Cabin for 2

A Roomette is pretty much the Amtrak equivalent of a Cabin for 2. Point is, I made sure to compare the lowest possible prices for the most directly comparable respective accommodations for each train.

 

[Urban Sky]

For any Amtrak sleeper itinerary (that is the accommodation, route, and stations you are traveling between), there are five possible prices/buckets. Depending on the time until departure and remaining availability of that accommodation, fares on any particular date (or train number, if there are multiple of the same route in a day) will go to one of those buckets.

Thank you for that explanation. Based on my observations from playing around with VIA's website, there are two sets of prices (discounted and undiscounted) for every accommodation type and they fluctuate by season, meaning that a Cabin for 2 (discounted) may cost a different amount in different times of the year, but the same amount for every departure in the same season...

A Roomette is pretty much the Amtrak equivalent of a Cabin for 2. Point is, I made sure to compare the lowest possible prices for the most directly comparable respective accommodations for each train.

• A Superliner Roomette has no toilet (though the Viewliner Roomette has one), 2 bunk beds parallel to the tracks and dimensions of 3'6" x 6'6" (i.e. 22.75 sq.ft.)
  
• A Cabin for 1 has a in-room toilet, one bed parallel to the tracks and dimensions of 6'5" x 3'7.5" (i.e. 23.26 sq.ft.)
  
• A Superliner Bedroom has an en-suite washroom with shower, 2 bunk beds orthogonal to the tracks and dimensions of  6'6" x 7'6" (i.e. 48.75 sq.ft.)
  
• A Cabin for 2 has an en-suite washroom, 2 bunk beds orthogonal to the tracks and dimensions of 7'3" x 5' plus a washroom with 2'9" x 2'1" (i.e. 36.25+5.73=41.98 sq.ft.)
  

Given above comparison, why would you argue that a Roomette is Amtrak's equivalent of a Cabin for 2 and what would you then compare a Superliner Bedroom with? Prestige Class?